How God’s Kingdom Will Come—Not What You Think!

[Trailblazer]

and you've all been lied to ever since.

Lied to by the Church, NOT by Jesus.
Jesus told the Truth. We just need to know how to interpret it.

 

[Ancient Soul]

on or in is irrelevant . its the cloud that's the concealing element even as it was when he ascended .Acts 1:9
9" After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight. "
he was not on the cloud but in it .
even as a car going down the road can no longer be seen if concealed by fog.

You are lying to yourself to make this failed "return" myth work, but it's over. And there IS a big difference between "ON" and "IN".

Would you rather be "ON" the back of a shark, or "IN" a shark?

 

[Jim]

Considering the gospel stories in the context of other Bible stories, it looks to me like the gospel of Jesus in those stories is that the kingdom of God that was promised to Israel has come, and that He, Jesus, is the Lord of that kingdom. That kingdom is wherever and whenever two or more people are practicing together what they’re learning from Him about how to live the best life they can.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Lied to by the Church, NOT by Jesus.
Jesus told the Truth. We just need to know how to interpret it.

Here we go again!!!

Now you can hate me and stalk me all over these forums bashing me, but the fact will NEVER change that God has always given me spiritual answers in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. So I will never believe that any or all of these fake religion's "messenger', "spokespeople", or whatever else you want to call them, had anything to do with any "god". If they did, their message would also be in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. And NOT in their bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people and needs "interpreting" to understand it.

"We just need to know how to interpret it." = Make up lies to make it plausibly "work" somehow.

God is NOT going to give out "messages" that has everyone scratching their heads trying to make sense of any of it. There would be no purpose of it. God's mind is WAY better than that.

 

[cataway]

Jim
the kingdom will be much more than that . the kingdom will remove sickness ,hunger ,war and the whole earth will be at peace . even death will be eliminated . there are those that are dead now will live again .

 

[Trailblazer]

It was the sound of my point going over your head about the difference between "ON" and "IN" a cloud that you got mixed up!

Jesus was supposed to come back ON a cloud. So quit making up lies to make your mythology work, it doesn't.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The Son of man was supposed to come in the clouds, but the Son of man was not Jesus, according to Baha'i beliefs. It makes no difference if the Bible says IN or ON -- Jesus ain't coming because Jesus never planned to return to earth (John 17:4, John 17:11)...

But I think there is a good reason why it says IN and not ON. If Jesus was supposed to come ON the clouds everyone would see Him, whereas if Jesus was supposed to come IN the clouds nobody would see Him because He would be hidden in the clouds. I think if you read what "I believe" actually happened you will understand.

To explain in brief, I believe that ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Baha’u’llah explained the meaning of clouds in The Kitáb-i-Íqán. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, the desires of men hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

To further explain the teaming of clouds, Baha’is believe that the term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. They signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current among men. In another sense, they mean the appearance of a Manifestation of God in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. These “veils” to recognition of a Manifestation of God are symbolically referred to as “clouds.” Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hinder the souls of men from recognizing the light of the Manifestation of God.

Thus the meaning of clouds is symbolic, not literal. Their judgment was clouded. Christians were looking for the same man Jesus in the same body that resurrected and ascended to appear in the actual physical clouds in the sky with power and great glory, trumpets and angels, but when that did not happen that way they rejected Baha’u’llah. However, if one looks at what happened before, during and after Baha’u’llah appeared there is not one prophecy that cannot be applied to Him.

 

[Ancient Soul]

behold I AM with you always.

What?

So YOU are the one who's been outside my window the last few nights!!!

POLICE!!!

 

[Thief]

In the video David C. Pack says that Jesus will build the Kingdom of God on earth, but Jesus never said He was going to return to earth to build the Kingdom of God.

Those who know anything of the Bible know that Jesus never promised to return, not once in the New Testament. Jesus told His followers to pray for the Kingdom to come, and indicated that it will come because it is God’s Will.

Matthew 6:9-10 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

In the video David C. Pack says “vast numbers today are looking for and desiring Christ’s coming... They do desire it and it’s obvious why. This world has endless problems and is spiraling out of control. People know Christ must come soon or there will be no planet to come to.”

I agree that the Kingdom of God must come soon or there will be no planet to come to.

But desiring something is not going to make it happen. Jesus never promised to return to earth. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11). Moreover, when Jesus died on the cross Jesus said “It is finished” (John 19:30).

Not only that, but Jesus said that His Kingdom is not of this world and Jesus denied being a king (John 18:36-37).

Jesus never said He is bringing a Kingdom at all, not once in the entire New Testament. This really bothers me because I consider it a complete fabrication and a distortion of Jesus’ own words.

In the video David C. Pack says “the apostles knew the tiny nature of the Kingdom at its outset. God’s Kingdom is akin to microscopic when it arrives. It eventually grows into a world government but it doesn’t start that way. Jesus said literally He is bringing an encrypted Kingdom.”

I fully agree that God’s Kingdom will be microscopic when it arrives, but it will eventually grow into a world government. However, Jesus never “literally said” He is bringing an encrypted Kingdom. In fact, Jesus never said that He was bringing in a Kingdom at all.

In the video David C. Pack says “Christ’s Message is clear, God’s Kingdom starts tiny and hidden, and you must find it.”

I fully agree that God’s Kingdom starts tiny and hidden, and you must find it. That indicates that it might already be right under our noses and most people have not found it.

In the video David C. Pack says there are four components to a kingdom

1. Land, property, or territory
2. A ruler or a king
3. People or subjects
4. A system of laws or rules

I agree that there will be four components to the Kingdom of God, but I do not agree there will be one ruler who will rule like an earthly king

In summation, I agree with much of what David C. Pack says on the video. I believe that the Kingdom of God will come to earth in a similar fashion to what he depicted. The salient problem is that Jesus will not be the one bringing the Kingdom of God to earth because that cannot be reconciled to the words Jesus spoke in the New Testament.

So as I see it we have a choice: We can either believe what the New Testament says or we can believe what Christianity teaches. Both cannot be true since they are contradictory.

the kingdom is not of this world

and the Carpenter never wanted a crown on His head

 

[Trailblazer]

Here we go again!!!

Now you can hate me and stalk me all over these forums bashing me, but the fact will NEVER change that God has always given me spiritual answers in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. So I will never believe that any or all of these fake religion's "messenger', "spokespeople", or whatever else you want to call them, had anything to do with any "god".

I never bashed you or stalked you.
I just go with what is logical and practical...

So, for the sake of argument, let's say that God gave you spiritual answers in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. What about the rest of the human race, how are they supposed to get answers?

 

[Trailblazer]

God is NOT going to give out "messages" that has everyone scratching their heads trying to make sense of any of it. There would be no purpose of it. God's mind is WAY better than that.

So, how is God going to give out "messages"?
Is God going to form a line outside of Walmart and hand out individual messages to all of the 7.7 billion people in the world?

 

[Ancient Soul]

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The Son of man was supposed to come in the clouds, but the Son of man was not Jesus, according to Baha'i beliefs. It makes no difference if the Bible says IN or ON -- Jesus ain't coming because Jesus never planned to return to earth (John 17:4, John 17:11)...

But I think there is a good reason why it says IN and not ON. If Jesus was supposed to come ON the clouds everyone would see Him, whereas if Jesus was supposed to come IN the clouds nobody would see Him because He would be hidden in the clouds. I think if you read what "I believe" actually happened you will understand.

To explain in brief, I believe that ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Baha’u’llah explained the meaning of clouds in The Kitáb-i-Íqán. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, the desires of men hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

To further explain the teaming of clouds, Baha’is believe that the term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. They signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current among men. In another sense, they mean the appearance of a Manifestation of God in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. These “veils” to recognition of a Manifestation of God are symbolically referred to as “clouds.” Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hinder the souls of men from recognizing the light of the Manifestation of God.

Thus the meaning of clouds is symbolic, not literal. Their judgment was clouded. Christians were looking for the same man Jesus in the same body that resurrected and ascended to appear in the actual physical clouds in the sky with power and great glory, trumpets and angels, but when that did not happen that way they rejected Baha’u’llah. However, if one looks at what happened before, during and after Baha’u’llah appeared there is not one prophecy that cannot be applied to Him.

Naturally this would happen.

There are so many miss-interpretations of the bible everyone can find a corruption that says exactly what they want it to say or mean.

The most common belief is that Jesus is suppose to be "returning" visibly "ON" a cloud. But since you found a different corruption to use, then go ahead and believe whatever version of the myth you want to believe in.

 

[cataway]

the kingdom is not of this world

and the Carpenter never wanted a crown on His head

that's right ,it was not yet time . it was yet in the future that Jesus would be king

 

[Ancient Soul]

I never bashed you or stalked you.
I just go with what is logical and practical...

So, for the sake of argument, let's say that God gave you spiritual answers in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. What about the rest of the human race, how are they supposed to get answers?

Ha, sure it's all about your hatred of me. That's obvious how you are obsessed with turning everything around into an attack upon me, just as you are doing here. You totally threw out, as you always do, everything I stated and go into a personal attack mode.

So how you going on that challenge I offered you?

Need a reminder:

"Funny how ALL of these so called messengers always speak/write using bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people but completely lack any true spiritual substance.

True spiritual matters are about:

God, his true spiritual nature, laws, judgment process, and plan for all souls.

One's soul, what is it really?

The spiritual realm/universe.

The physical realm/universe.

Why are the spiritual realm and physical realm separate?

What will the "afterlife" be like?

There's way more, but all amounting to the great question of the WHY of it all, and your place in all of it, for what purpose?

Now cry all you want, but you will find more straight answers on some of those topics in my posts than you will NEVER get from studying your "messenger's" gobbledygook for a lifetime."

*********************************
So here's your chance. Go and get me any passages from your Baha'u'lla "messenger" that you think answers/describes those matters and we'll see if it's really any clear and concise answers/descriptions, or just bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are so many miss-interpretations of the bible everyone can find a corruption that says exactly what they want it to say or mean.

The most common belief is that Jesus is suppose to be "returning" visibly "ON" a cloud. But since you found a different corruption to use, then go ahead and believe whatever version of the myth you want to believe in.

There are so many interpretations of the bible everyone can interpret the bible to mean exactly what they want it to mean.

The most common belief is that Jesus is suppose to be "returning" visibly "ON" a cloud, but that is not what the Bible verses say, and that is how we know that Christians have misinterpreted the verses.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Here we go again!!!

Now you can hate me and stalk me all over these forums bashing me, but the fact will NEVER change that God has always given me spiritual answers in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. So I will never believe that any or all of these fake religion's "messenger', "spokespeople", or whatever else you want to call them, had anything to do with any "god". If they did, their message would also be in a clear, concise, and all encompassing manner. And NOT in their bombastic gobbledygook meant to bedazzle people and needs "interpreting" to understand it.

"We just need to know how to interpret it." = Make up lies to make it plausibly "work" somehow.

God is NOT going to give out "messages" that has everyone scratching their heads trying to make sense of any of it. There would be no purpose of it. God's mind is WAY better than that.

So, how is God going to give out "messages"?
Is God going to form a line outside of Walmart and hand out individual messages to all of the 7.7 billion people in the world?

Do you even read my posts that you keep attacking?

Go back and CAREFULLY read the WHOLE post. I re-posted it up top so you don't have to exert yourself too much and maybe hurt your scroll finger.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ha, sure it's all about your hatred of me. That's obvious how you are obsessed with turning everything around into an attack upon me, just as you are doing here. You totally threw out, as you always do, everything I stated and go into a personal attack mode.

You are paranoid. I NEVER attacked you.
In fact, I tried to show how I agree with you in certain matters, but apparently all you want to do is argue.
I do not want to argue, so I am out of here.

So how you going on that challenge I offered you?

I am not the slight bit interested in it.
What are you trying to prove?
I have no need to prove anything to anyone.

 

[Ancient Soul]

There are so many interpretations of the bible everyone can interpret the bible to mean exactly what they want it to mean.

The most common belief is that Jesus is suppose to be "returning" visibly "ON" a cloud, but that is not what the Bible verses say, and that is how we know that Christians have misinterpreted the verses.

Then follow whatever delusion you want. I really don't care to deal with all your deceit and hatred.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you even read my posts that you keep attacking

Please present the proof that I attacked any of your posts.
Do you consider disagreeing attacking?

 

[Ancient Soul]

You are paranoid. I NEVER attacked you.
In fact, I tried to show how I agree with you in certain matters, but apparently all you want to do is argue.
I do not want to argue, so I am out of here.

I am not the slight bit interested in it.
What are you trying to prove?
I have no need to prove anything to anyone.

Geez...

You are the one who went into personal attack mode, and as always you try turning it around into it being about "me" somehow.

Posting to you is useless. You use deceit and somehow always turn everything into a personal attack upon me and usually make no mention of what I was discussing/debating with someone else.

So please, stop bothering me. I think you have some "issues" you need to work on.

 

[cataway]

There are so many interpretations of the bible everyone can interpret the bible to mean exactly what they want it to mean.

The most common belief is that Jesus is suppose to be "returning" visibly "ON" a cloud, but that is not what the Bible verses say, and that is how we know that Christians have misinterpreted the verses.

where ,what spot on earth would he be returning to ? he will be ruling over the entire earth. he will be ruling from heaven .