How good is good enough to get to Heaven?

[-Peacemaker-]

I'm just curious what everyone believes on the subject and by what rationale they defend their view. I realize this is a diverse board but I think we can all agree that we are all sinners to varying degrees. If Heaven is real then God must have some standard of imperfection that one must meet if they are to reach the pearly gates or else we are all destined to burn. What is that standard?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Your assumption is unfounded. Why would God care to set a standard? Would he somehow be tainted by the admission of "sinners"?

 

[Iti oj]

be true to yourself the world and to others

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Your assumption is unfounded. Why would God care to set a standard?

because he cares about justice?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

because he cares about justice?

What makes you think that?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What makes you think that?

I believe he made mankind. We certainly have strong awareness of right and wrong, though admittingly we often define "right" and "wrong" differently. It seems logical that if he made us with that awareness then he must be aware of it as well.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I believe he made mankind. We certainly have strong awareness of right and wrong. It seems logical that if he made us with that awareness then he must be aware of it as well.

Does God sin as well? Does he have bowels? Does he like kitten videos?

How far down will you drag God to become human?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Does God sin as well? Does he have bowels? Does he like kitten videos?

How far down will you drag God to become human?

I believe he did have bowels when he walked the Earth. He might've even liked kittens. I don't believe he was a sinner however.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

because he cares about justice?

What does justice have to do with Heaven?

And which religion's standard for who gets into Heaven are you assuming is just?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Assuming there is an afterlife, there is nothing to suggest that any human would be admitted to it (it could for example, be an afterlife designed for god's favorite creations designed in her own image, the many tentacled peoples of Oasdnakukk), yet even were some humans to be possibly admitted to such a place, there is nothing to indicate what the criteria might perhaps be for entry, certainly nothing to suggest that belief in ____ would be the primary determinant or that moral principles similar to ______ would in some way guide the decision or that behaviors closest matching the _____ standard are considered favorably.

 

[Walkntune]

I'm just curious what everyone believes on the subject and by what rationale they defend their view. I realize this is a diverse board but I think we can all agree that we are all sinners to varying degrees. If Heaven is real then God must have some standard of imperfection that one must meet if they are to reach the pearly gates or else we are all destined to burn. What is that standard?

If you are going to rely on self effort then you must be perfect! If you trust God and his provisions then his grace is sufficient!

 

[ChristineES]

I'm just curious what everyone believes on the subject and by what rationale they defend their view. I realize this is a diverse board but I think we can all agree that we are all sinners to varying degrees. If Heaven is real then God must have some standard of imperfection that one must meet if they are to reach the pearly gates or else we are all destined to burn. What is that standard?

That's the same question that Kirk Cameron and his friend ask on that show. You're supposed to answer: "No one's good enough."

 

[chinu]

I'm just curious what everyone believes on the subject and by what rationale they defend their view. I realize this is a diverse board but I think we can all agree that we are all sinners to varying degrees. If Heaven is real then God must have some standard of imperfection that one must meet if they are to reach the pearly gates or else we are all destined to burn. What is that standard?

Like.. once when God appeared in front of one Pig and invited him to come and stay in heaven for ever, Said the pig; God i need some time to discuss all this with my wife first.
And when that pig went to his wife to discuss all that, Asked pig's wife; Do God have plenty of dirt and garbage for us us to enjoy there in heaven ?

Similarly.. we people think that heaven might be more good place than this earth to cool down our lust, anger, greed, false attachment and ego, where as heaven is place of "Peace of mind" which is away from all these passions.

And "Peace of mind" means the mind which is away from the fire of lust, anger, greed, false attachments and ego, where as we people want to get peace of mind while in these passions, we people don't want to leave these passions, we people are in habit of these passions.

 

[sojourner]

I'm just curious what everyone believes on the subject and by what rationale they defend their view. I realize this is a diverse board but I think we can all agree that we are all sinners to varying degrees. If Heaven is real then God must have some standard of imperfection that one must meet if they are to reach the pearly gates or else we are all destined to burn. What is that standard?

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here, based upon a fairly narrow view of eternity.

The standard is Divine perfect love and perfect forgiveness. We all have it at our disposal. All are invited; all are welcome, because all are one as the Divine is One.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here, based upon a fairly narrow view of eternity.

The standard is Divine perfect love and perfect forgiveness. We all have it at our disposal. All are invited; all are welcome, because all are one as the Divine is One.

Wait...even MURDERERS?

RAPISTS?

HOMOSEXUALS?

.

.

.

What kind of God is it that doesn't punish people I don't like? [/sarcasm]

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What does justice have to do with Heaven?

And which religion's standard for who gets into Heaven are you assuming is just?

Obviously I believe the Christian standard (grace), which Walkntune laid out pretty nicely, is what God uses to judge mankind. I'm interested in hearing about what people here believe that standard to be and how they rationalize it. To reject the idea that only by grace can we get to Heaven is to accept the idea that a certain level of imperfection exists which is the line between that and going to Hell. Where do people believe that line is drawn?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Wait...even MURDERERS?

RAPISTS?

HOMOSEXUALS?

.

.

.

What kind of God is it that doesn't punish people I don't like? [/sarcasm]

You have a problem with rapists and murderers being punished?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You have a problem with rapists and murderers being punished?

Let's define "punishment" for the sake of the discussion. My guess is we're talking about hellfire and brimstone for all those that don't fit into the specifications of "God-fearing Christian". It's torture, Inquisition-style.

I have a problem with rapists and murderers being tortured forever and ever, and calling it justice.

I have a problem with ANYBODY being tortured for any reason and calling it justice, a deterrent, or ethical. Confinement for the safety of other people is preferable, but rehabilitation and compassionate treatment for people who are sociopathic is my preferred response to violent tendencies.

And that includes any deity that think it's right to torture somebody because they fall in love with someone of the same gender or because they don't believe in him/her. That deity seriously needs a Big Squishy Hug. :rainbow1:

 

[Quintessence]

I'm just curious what everyone believes on the subject and by what rationale they defend their view. I realize this is a diverse board but I think we can all agree that we are all sinners to varying degrees. If Heaven is real then God must have some standard of imperfection that one must meet if they are to reach the pearly gates or else we are all destined to burn. What is that standard?

Setting aside for the moment that I have disagreements with some of the assumptions inherent in this opening post...

... it is not my place to claim to know what the standards are of a god I have no meaningful relationship with, therefore, I have no comment on it. I also cannot comment on how the gods I do have meaningful relationships would view this issue, because my religion does not recognize the idea of heaven and hell, nor does it characterize humanity as "sinners." It doesn't apply.

 

[Tarheeler]

To reject the idea that only by grace can we get to Heaven is to accept the idea that a certain level of imperfection exists which is the line between that and going to Hell.

That's a false dichotomy; rejecting the idea of grace only means that the person uses some other criteria.

Personally, I'm fond of Micah's summerization on the topic: He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your God.

While I don't subscribe to the Christian idea of heaven or etenal torment, I do think that there might be something after this life. Our participation in it isn't going to be a matter of faith or belief, or whether the pluses outweigh the minuses; it's going to be based on our compassion, mercy, and love for our fellow man.