leibowde84
Veteran Member
So, you have not provided useful evidence to support your claim then, as subjective evidence is usually only covincing to the person encountering it. The other is asked to "take their word for it," which is an unreasonable request when debating anything. That is part of my frustration. If you had admitted that you had not provided substantive proof for your claim earlier, I wouldn't have reacted the way I did. But, your claim that history and theology is never resolved to a certainty or proof is incredibly misleading. History is not proved with absolute certainty in many respects, but its probability is based on objective evidence, not subjective experience or notions. The comparison is not fair. And, btw, you have not been claiming that the Bible is probably reliable or probably true or most likely an accurate portrayal of Jesus' words. You have used quotes from Jesus in the Bible as proof for your claims, you keep on saying that the reliability of the Bible is not in question, that the historicity should be used to prove points about the nature of God.I have in fact been saying the exact opposite. Quote any claim I have ever made where I said what you claim I have. I said I have proof but it is personal and subject. I have pointed out over and over that kind of proof is not available for debate. I have even added to that emphatic and clear position that theology and history are never resolved to a certainty or proof. They are always resolved to a probability. That is what I said is available for debate, not what you said I did.
My position is that the spirit of Jesus' teachings in the Bible are accurate and appropriate. The specifics, historicity, and quotes almost certainly are not, at least not in their entirety. This has been shown in multiple ways, and can be read about through a simple Google search on the subject, but that isn't important in this discussion. It should be common sense that any book that has been translated so many times, was not meant to be combined as it was, many more texts left out than included, and many inconsistencies present (mainly small, but some large) must be viewed with skepticism. As such, passages should not be used as statements that prove what God's will is. It is certainly the most beneficial book I have ever read, and it has helped to shape my life, but using quotes supposedly uttered by Jesus to "prove" what Jesus wants of us is tantamount to a slap in the face. It's insulting that you keep on spewing Biblical passages at me as if I don't know them already.
I know what the Bible says already, I am interested in what you think and why you think it. If you believe things about God simply because they are stated in the Bible, there is no reason to discuss this topic. But, if you would like to get into your objective reasoning for why you think the way you do about God, I would love to discuss it. I fear that you think there can't be valid objective reasons for belief apart from scripture, but I hope I am wrong.