How It Is That Bad Cops Are The Majority Of Cops

[Revoltingest]

This is a bit hard to follow. So we're saying that you consider police malpractice to be a religious issue?

This thread is in the N American Politics debate forum.
Objecting to it being in religiousforums.com is wrong.
The nominal name of this site doesn't limit topics.

If you think this thread is out of place on RF,
you should see what happens in.....

Games / Pics / Jokes / Stories​

 

[Kfox]

I can accept your premises for the sake of
your hypothetical, but not agree with them.

Your error is assuming that only 5% of
cops would go along with illegality.
If you sample instances of wrongdoing
by cops, the percentage that go along
appears to be over 90%.

What do you base that 90% on? The tiny percentage that you actually hear about? Or something else.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

First, this is a religious forum so we need to understand that police malpractice is not exactly a "religious" topic.

Politics (properly) and entertainment aren't religious topics either but there are threads for them.

Secondly, let's remember that there are about a million police officers in the U.S., one for about every 400 people. Next, lets understand that grouping and maintaining order among ourselves is what humans do. iow it's normal and healthy.

The things Revoltingest brings up are incidents that happen time and time again with nearly always the same issues and results. The police cover for eachother and internal investigations find no wrong doing even when courts do.
There is also the issue of warrior training which does instruct cops to be quick to shoot and especially kill. Even training manuals for traffic stops spend a lot if time discussing killing, encouraging it, amd says cops shouldn't feel bad doing it in the line of duty.

 

[Revoltingest]

They do actually believe that. To quote a sheriff of itty-bitty Winimac, Indiana, who got a military, armored troop transport vehicle suitable and intended for the frontlines of war, because "America is a warzone."

And just as all problems look like nails to a
man with a hammer, all civilians look like
combatants to a cop with a high capacity
handgun, a license to kill, & immunity.

 

[Revoltingest]

What do you base that 90% on? The tiny percentage that you actually hear about? Or something else.

90% is a conservative figure based on far fewer
than 10% of cases I've seen where a good cop
interfered with a cop perpetrating an illegal act.

 

[Kfox]

As widespread and common as the behavior is, very fair.

I remember talking to an old white lady who told me every single black person she had contact with were criminals; so she felt justified judging all black people that way. When pressed, she admitted of the millions of black people in the country she only had contact with a handful, but still she felt justified in labeling them all criminals. I judged her a bigot because she judged an entire group harshly due to being a part of the group rather than on individual behavior. I see your claim to be no different than hers.

 

[Kfox]

90% is a conservative figure based on far fewer
than 10% of cases I've seen where a good cop
interfered with a cop perpetrating an illegal act.

As pointed out before, perhaps that's because the bad cops rarely commit crimes in front of a good cop that will get them in trouble.

 

[Kfox]

And just as all problems look like nails to a
man with a hammer, all civilians look like
combatants to a cop with a high capacity
handgun, a license to kill, & immunity.

Cute! But in the real world, everybody knows problems do not look like nails to a man with a hammer, and cops do not have a license to kill with immunity

 

[Revoltingest]

Watch what happens when a bad cop gets angry
because the arrestee disrespects him. As the bad
cop begins to assault the arrestee, a good cop pulls
him off. Then the bad cop grabs the good cop by
the throat. Other cops just stand by & watch.
They don't prevent either assault.
This instance of a good cop standing up to a bad
cop for a civilian's rights is rare indeed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Cute! But in the real world, everybody knows problems do not look like nails with a man with a hammer, and cops do not have a license to kill with immunity

In the real world, many cops do treat civilians
as hated & dangerous. And they improperly
use their tools because they're trained to fear
& fight....not to de-escalate, de-fuse, negotiate,
or serve. Guns & fists guide their thoughts.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I can accept your premises for the sake of
your hypothetical, but not agree with them.

Your error is assuming that only 5% of
cops would go along with illegality.
If you sample instances of wrongdoing
by cops, the percentage that go along
appears to be over 90%.
Moreover, when a good cop stops a
bad cop in the act, the response by the
bad cop & other cops is often retaliation.
There is systemic reinforcement of bad acts.

Please help me out in understanding what you're saying about cops. Are you saying that cops are bad and that we'd be better off w/o them?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

This video shows the type of bad cop I often refer to,
ie, they allow other cops to commit illegal acts, but
do nothing to stop it. They even participate in
cover ups.
In this case a cooperative person in handcuffs is
assaulted by a cop, who threw him to the ground,
causing head & hand injuries. Not one of the many
other cops on the scene attempted to stop the
assault. Not one cop reported the assault. It only
came to light when the victim was hospitalized,
which triggered an investigation. The assailant
was put on paid vacation.
Such is very typical. It's extremely rare to see a
cop intervene when another cop goes rogue on
a civilian.

My experience with cops has been very limited, but the few times I have had to interact with cops, they have always tried to trap me into admitting I did something illegal (which I didn't). One time I was pulled over supposedly because my license plate illumination light wasn't working, and as soon as I started interacting with the cop it was obvious he was trying to trick me into admitting I had been drinking (of course I hadn't been) and he let me go once he realized I was sober but I could tell he was really hoping to make an arrest. Another time a cop tried to trick me into saying I was drinking in public when I was just drinking water. If you are ever accused of anything, the cops are NEVER on your side and they will lie and manipulate to try to incriminate you, even if they know you're innocent. Of course we need cops in society but our entire legal system is corrupt, no one actually cares about facts and evidence, the prosecution will lie, cheat, and manipulate to try to get a "win" for their side, as will the defense.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And just as all problems look like nails to a
man with a hammer, all civilians look like
combatants to a cop with a high capacity
handgun, a license to kill, & immunity.

Especially when they're trained they have to kill us before we kill them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I remember talking to an old white lady who told me every single black person she had contact with were criminals; so she felt justified judging all black people that way. When pressed, she admitted of the millions of black people in the country she only had contact with a handful, but still she felt justified in labeling them all criminals. I judged her a bigot because she judged an entire group harshly due to being a part of the group rather than on individual behavior. I see your claim to be no different than hers.

The difference is it does not matter where we see the same behavior. A cop does something bad amd the cops try to cover it up and upon investigating themselves find no wrong doing.
Black people don't have training manuals telling them being nice qnd trying to see the good in people will get them killed.

 

[The Hammer]

So you look at a video of a few cops doing bad, and judge all cops based on the behavior of the few in this video? Do you consider this fair? Do you judge all people of a group based on the actions of a few within that group?

Yes. One bad apple and all that

 

[The Hammer]

The things Revoltingest brings up are incidents that happen time and time again with nearly always the same issues and results. The police cover for eachother and internal investigations find no wrong doing even when courts do.

My ten years in the military showed me that they have this exact same problem.

It's why all sexual assault cases have been transferred to local authorities, and away from the chain of command.

You can't trust an organization not to cover for its own personnel, that is in its own best interest as an entity.

 

[Kfox]

The difference is it does not matter where we see the same behavior. A cop does something bad amd the cops try to cover it up and upon investigating themselves find no wrong doing.
Black people don't have training manuals telling them being nice qnd trying to see the good in people will get them killed.

Regardless of training, when you judge someone based on them being a member of a group rather than because of what they actually did, That's called bigotry

 

[Kfox]

Yes. One bad apple and all that

The problem with "one bad apple" and all of that, is though accurate when it comes to fruit, when applied to people, it's called bigotry

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My ten years in the military showed me that they have this exact same problem.

It's why all sexual assault cases have been transferred to local authorities, and away from the chain of command.

You can't trust an organization not to cover for its own personnel, that is in its own best interest as an entity.

Yup. It's the reason medical and science and academic research is subject to am ethics review board if people are involved. It's been abused horribly, it's caused living nightmares for many, it became very necessary to clamp down on it.
There's no shame in it, just acknowledging institutions need a way to weed out bad apples, and it usually requires an outside and disinterested party.

 

[The Hammer]

The problem with "one bad apple" and all of that, is though accurate when it comes to fruit, when applied to people, it's called bigotry

Not really. Because I didn't say all cops are bad.

But the bad cops there are, are making the rest of them look bad.

If a doctors office I have been going to has a bad doctor who gets fired for malpractice, I find a new clinic and set of doctors. Doesn't matter whether it was mine or not, the lack of oversight is enough to lose trust in the institution.
overall.

See the problem is, we can't shop around for a better legal system or PD, when that institution is safe harboring wrong doing, instead we're stuck with cover ups and back pedalling.