lunamoth
Will to love
The world was smaller, then.
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How large was Jesus following while alive?
- Thread starter outhouse
- Start date
arthra
Baha'i
My old friend Lunamoth has posted that the world was "smaller" then.. I would say it was larger than it is today.. It takes a lot less time to circumnavigate the globe and we can communicate instantly via internet... Things that Lunamoth may recall was heralded by some Baha'i figures in her memory?
My own view is that what Jesus was teaching at the time was novel and unique enough to attract attention and win people over...
His teaching would be closer to a passive resistance movemnet to Roman oppression..and a threat to the established religious order simultaneously.
An essential element of the influence of Jesus was His personal charisma.
When He drove the money changers out of the Temple I believe He did so without using anything but His personal charisma and influence.. only John mentioned a knoted chord..the other earlier Gospels do not record anythiing but His voice and presence as sufficent.
Why didn't Josephus mention Him among the other Messiah claimants? Because they were primarily interested in overthrowing Roman occupation using force..this reached a peak with Simon bar Kokhba in the last revolt. Jospehus was writing a court history and so not interested in a so-called "failed messiah" crucified many years before.
So there was already from this Jesus a persoange that stirred the hearts and souls of men and today we recall Him more than a Caesar..
After the lapse of time the Israelites deteriorated, and became subject to the Romans and the Greeks. Then the brilliant Star of Jesus rose from the horizon upon the Israelites, brightening the world, until all sects and creeds and nations were taught the beauty of unity. There cannot be any better proof than this that Jesus was the Word of God.
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 42
The flight of Moses, the Prophet of Sinai, revealed the Flame of the Lord's burning Fire, and the rise of Jesus breathed the breaths of the Holy Spirit into the world.
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 281
And then there's Will Durant:
The Christian evidence for Christ begins with the letters ascribed to Saint Paul. Some of these are of uncertain authorship; several, antedating A.D. 64, are almost universally accounted as substantially genuine. No one has questioned the existence of Paul, or his repeated meetings with Peter, James, and John; and Paul enviously admits that these men had known Christ in his flesh. The accepted epistles frequently refer to the Last Supper and the Crucifixion....
The contradictions are of minutiae, not substance; in essentials the synoptic gospels agree remarkably well, and form a consistent portrait of Christ. In the enthusiasm of its discoveries the Higher Criticism has applied to the New Testament tests of authenticity so severe that by them a hundred ancient worthies -- for example, Hammurabi, David, Socrates -- would fade into legend. Despite the prejudices and theological preconceptions of the evangelists, they record many incidents that mere inventors would have concealed -- the competition of the apostles for high places in the Kingdom, their flight after Jesus' arrest, Peter's denial, the failure of Christ to work miracles in Galilee, the references of some auditors to his possible insanity, his early uncertainty as to his mission, his confessions of ignorance as to the future, his moments of bitterness, his despairing cry on the cross; no one reading these scenes can doubt the reality of the figure behind them. That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospel. After two centuries of Higher Criticism the outlines of the life, character, and teaching of Christ, remain reasonably clear, and constitute the most fascinating feature of the history of Western man.
The Story of Civilization, Volume 3: Caesar and Christ (p. 555)
My own view is that what Jesus was teaching at the time was novel and unique enough to attract attention and win people over...
His teaching would be closer to a passive resistance movemnet to Roman oppression..and a threat to the established religious order simultaneously.
An essential element of the influence of Jesus was His personal charisma.
When He drove the money changers out of the Temple I believe He did so without using anything but His personal charisma and influence.. only John mentioned a knoted chord..the other earlier Gospels do not record anythiing but His voice and presence as sufficent.
Why didn't Josephus mention Him among the other Messiah claimants? Because they were primarily interested in overthrowing Roman occupation using force..this reached a peak with Simon bar Kokhba in the last revolt. Jospehus was writing a court history and so not interested in a so-called "failed messiah" crucified many years before.
So there was already from this Jesus a persoange that stirred the hearts and souls of men and today we recall Him more than a Caesar..
After the lapse of time the Israelites deteriorated, and became subject to the Romans and the Greeks. Then the brilliant Star of Jesus rose from the horizon upon the Israelites, brightening the world, until all sects and creeds and nations were taught the beauty of unity. There cannot be any better proof than this that Jesus was the Word of God.
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 42
The flight of Moses, the Prophet of Sinai, revealed the Flame of the Lord's burning Fire, and the rise of Jesus breathed the breaths of the Holy Spirit into the world.
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 281
And then there's Will Durant:
The Christian evidence for Christ begins with the letters ascribed to Saint Paul. Some of these are of uncertain authorship; several, antedating A.D. 64, are almost universally accounted as substantially genuine. No one has questioned the existence of Paul, or his repeated meetings with Peter, James, and John; and Paul enviously admits that these men had known Christ in his flesh. The accepted epistles frequently refer to the Last Supper and the Crucifixion....
The contradictions are of minutiae, not substance; in essentials the synoptic gospels agree remarkably well, and form a consistent portrait of Christ. In the enthusiasm of its discoveries the Higher Criticism has applied to the New Testament tests of authenticity so severe that by them a hundred ancient worthies -- for example, Hammurabi, David, Socrates -- would fade into legend. Despite the prejudices and theological preconceptions of the evangelists, they record many incidents that mere inventors would have concealed -- the competition of the apostles for high places in the Kingdom, their flight after Jesus' arrest, Peter's denial, the failure of Christ to work miracles in Galilee, the references of some auditors to his possible insanity, his early uncertainty as to his mission, his confessions of ignorance as to the future, his moments of bitterness, his despairing cry on the cross; no one reading these scenes can doubt the reality of the figure behind them. That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospel. After two centuries of Higher Criticism the outlines of the life, character, and teaching of Christ, remain reasonably clear, and constitute the most fascinating feature of the history of Western man.
The Story of Civilization, Volume 3: Caesar and Christ (p. 555)
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cablescavenger
Well-Known Member
There isn't much to the Gospel to be honest. It is just clear that it is different.
Here is the Gospel:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/_pdf/GospelofJudas.pdf
The Gospel found was supposed to be a 3rd century copy of a 2nd century document.
I don't say this is right or wrong either, to me it is just another Gospel, of which there were over 30.
I am not sure what you mean by Spongs account being more historical than Judas? I am at a loss there, but the oldest of all Gospels may be the Gospel of Thomas, which is very much a gnostic text.
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