How long was a day when the universe began

[RestlessSoul]

Agree, maybe the idea of survival being beneficial is somewhat equal to that of natural laws. I do however still find it odd, because a lot of energy, effort and risk goes into procreation at least for animals, not so many humans anymore with modern science. But back in the day having children were not without danger, yet all lifeforms do it one way or another. It would make more sense to me if there were no danger involved and that lifeforms wouldn't care. But we do take those risks, without any apparent benefit for life as a whole it seems or at least not that we are aware of, given we have no clue what the purpose of life even is, if any at all.

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The benefit for life is that life is passed on, from one living thing to the next. Maybe life itself is the point; not the individual lives of separate organisms, but the universal creative energy, the imperative force, the will to be, and to become.

As to what the purpose is to all of this, I suggest that only God knows, and God - as my old dad would say - ain’t telling.

Meanwhile it’s up to each of us, individually and collectively, to find our own purpose in life; which I believe, must have something to do with cultivating love and respect for all living things.

 

[Alien826]

That problem disappears when we reflect that sound is a creation of a conscious mind that can sense longitudinal percussion waves in the atmosphere. The tree falls and generates these waves whether there is a conscious agent to hear them or not, but the latter is required to experience these waves as sound (or noise).

Actually the word "sound" can be used to describe both the vibration in the air and the mental sensation.

1 Noun
a
: a particular auditory impression : tone
b
: the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing
c
: mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (such as air) and is the objective cause of hearing

That's what makes the question both difficult to answer and pretty much useless. It depends what you mean by "sound".

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Many arguments here about the bible and creation are about "a day". We all only know the concept of "a day" as we live our lives here on earth.

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

The question itself is essentially meaningless. A "day" is defined as the length of time that a rotating body completes a single rotation on its axis. That means that there are quite literally trillions of different lengths for a "day," depending on what rotating body you happen to be standing on.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The question itself is essentially meaningless. A "day" is defined as the length of time that a rotating body completes a single rotation on its axis. That means that there are quite literally trillions of different lengths for a "day," depending on what rotating body you happen to be standing on.

Pretty sure all contributors to this thread are standing on the same one tbh.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Pretty sure all contributors to this thread are standing on the same one tbh.

Yes, but they could not have been doing so "when the universe began," now could they? Earth came along quite a long while after that.

 

[Pete in Panama]

There is no 'reference framework' that is 'outside the universe' in this sense.

--except if we pick a supernatural frame of reference, like say God's POV. That's exactly what cosmologists are doing when they say inflation happened during the first 10^-32 seconds of the universe.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

--except if we pick a supernatural frame of reference, like say God's POV. That's exactly what cosmologists are doing when they say inflation happened during the first 10^-32 seconds of the universe.

Interesting conjecture....

What humans do you know who can boast of having "God's POV?"

 

[Nimos]

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The benefit for life is that life is passed on, from one living thing to the next. Maybe life itself is the point; not the individual lives of separate organisms, but the universal creative energy, the imperative force, the will to be, and to become.

As to what the purpose is to all of this, I suggest that only God knows, and God - as my old dad would say - ain’t telling.

Meanwhile it’s up to each of us, individually and collectively, to find our own purpose in life; which I believe, must have something to do with cultivating love and respect for all living things.

I think one can boil down the purpose of life to simply being happy and that it applies to everyone. Obviously, how one achieves it might differ, but I think that holds true for everyone even monsters like Hitler. The biggest difference is just that people like him have no issue stepping on others to achieve it. Assuming that God exist and he ain't telling what the purpose is, being happy seems to work just fine. What more can one ask for than to wake up every day, being happy?

 

[Shaul]

The question itself is essentially meaningless. A "day" is defined as the length of time that a rotating body completes a single rotation on its axis. That means that there are quite literally trillions of different lengths for a "day," depending on what rotating body you happen to be standing on.

That definition does not comport with the word used in Beresheit(Genesis). It originally defined word day as a period from chaos/evening("erev") through an order/morning("boker"). It only later updated the word to mean a period of the Earth's rotation.

 

[Stevicus]

Interesting conjecture....

What humans do you know who can boast of having "God's POV?"

I come across people like that all the time. People who purport to know what God thinks, what God feels, who God is sending to Heaven and Hell. I see them on TV even (just before I change the channel).

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I come across people like that all the time. People who purport to know what God thinks, what God feels, who God is sending to Heaven and Hell. I see them on TV even (just before I change the channel).

I think you captured my point well-enough!

 

[Audie]

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The benefit for life is that life is passed on, from one living thing to the next. Maybe life itself is the point; not the individual lives of separate organisms, but the universal creative energy, the imperative force, the will to be, and to become.

As to what the purpose is to all of this, I suggest that only God knows, and God - as my old dad would say - ain’t telling.

Meanwhile it’s up to each of us, individually and collectively, to find our own purpose in life; which I believe, must have something to do with cultivating love and respect for all living things.

Nonono.

It’s not about “ benefits” or universal / god etc

those organism that will reproduce have descendants.

those disinclined have vanished

only those programmed to reproduce still exist

 

[InvestigateTruth]

A rotation of the earth is something we use as a measurement of time. A foot is always a foot. Do you think we would go back in time if earth started rotating the other way?

Yes, in fact that's how the time machines work.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think one can boil down the purpose of life to simply being happy and that it applies to everyone. Obviously, how one achieves it might differ, but I think that holds true for everyone even monsters like Hitler. The biggest difference is just that people like him have no issue stepping on others to achieve it. Assuming that God exist and he ain't telling what the purpose is, being happy seems to work just fine. What more can one ask for than to wake up every day, being happy?

How would you define happiness? It’s actually quite an imprecise term; what does it look or feel like, and what are the necessary conditions to create and sustain it?

And since it seems that for all living things, suffering is unavoidable, isn’t the measure of a life the capacity to endure suffering with equanimity, as much as it is to achieve happiness?

 

[Nimos]

How would you define happiness? It’s actually quite an imprecise term; what does it look or feel like, and what are the necessary conditions to create and sustain it?

And since it seems that for all living things, suffering is unavoidable, isn’t the measure of a life the capacity to endure suffering with equanimity, as much as it is to achieve happiness?

Happiness is a vague word, in the same way as good and evil are. But I do think that each individual can make such a judgement for themselves, and it highly differs from person to person. Some get it through their job, some family, some from travelling or obviously a mixture of all these things, but I think some basic things are crucial for all, which is stuff like freedom of choice, good healthcare and security. And as you say, avoid as much suffering as possible.

Besides these "basic" things, realizing that it is individual from person to person how to achieve it, is the key. This is also why we as societies have to make sure that everyone can achieve it but without the ability to step on others in order to do so. This is often what we see happening, whether it is the police in the US killing or suppressing a black person or a dictator ruling others with an iron fist or poor working conditions etc. A lot of people seem to think that it is fine for them to achieve happiness by any means.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Interesting conjecture....

What humans do you know who can boast of having "God's POV?"

Virtually all of them. Just do an internet search for drawing big bang universe future and u get this:

--which shows the time axis from left to right and the extent of the universe in compressed to 2 dimensions translated on the pic in and out of pic. OK, sounds convoluted but it's standard.

All the universe --all space and time-- are inside the boundary before us. we're looking from outside space and time --just like God.

By looking at this pic you're assuming God's POV.

 

[Alien826]

My answer to the length of the day as described in the Bible is "whatever the author/s intended the word 'day' (in the original language of course) to mean". My feeling is that as these author/s were human (even if inspired) they meant whatever the common meaning was at the time (no more than 24 hours, certainly). Trying to put myself into their place, if I were writing it I would assume the common meaning, and if I meant something else, I'd add some kind of qualifier.

Expanding on this a little, if they wanted to convey something important, why not state it plainly? I would. Why is it necessary to go digging into other possible meanings and comparing texts written by different people at very different times in order to divine some higher meaning? If the original writers were truly inspired by God then there should have been no problem stating things clearly in simple words. Of course if the various parts of the Bible were written by humans all of whom had different understandings, agendas and so on, then we would expect just what we have.

 

[nPeace]

None of them explains it.

These are merely what God wants his lifeforms to do, not why he created them in the first place or why life/survival over non-life/non-survival is considered superior for lifeforms.

God created male, and female, and told them to have children, and live on the earth, and take care of it. Genesis 1:26-28

I gave you a wrong scripture. Sorry about that. Genesis 3:8-16, was supposed to be Genesis 2:8-16 where God put them in a garden with "every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food". Also, animals of all kinds.

The earth would be theirs, to inhabit, forever, and find exquisite delight, surrounded by animals at peace, and children playing. Psalms 115:16; Psalms 37:11; Isaiah 45:18; Isaiah 11:6-9
They were to build and plant, and enjoy each other's company. Isaiah 65:21-25
...for ever.

God made everything beautiful for humans, and put eternity in their heart. Ecclesiastes 3:11
Humans were to get to know God. Acts of the Apostles 17:26-28; John 17:3

All of this is what God wanted for humans, and you are saying you do not know what God's purpose for humans is, and the Bible does not say?

They say a picture paints a thousand words, so maybe this image will help.
For others, it's clears.
God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. John 3:16

God made humans to live forever, and enjoy life in peace. That was his will, his purpose for them. It still is. Psalm 37:11, 29.
Additionally, humans were to get to know God, and serve him. their life depended on that. That is still God's will - his purpose for them. 1 Timothy 2:3-4

The Bible clearly outlines God's purpose for humankind - why he created them, and what he wants for them.
If you find it's not clear to you, I think you need to ask a very important question. what is atheism doing to your mind?
Do you have any children around, who are, say, between the ages of 12, and 16? Why not ask them if they see God's purpose for man, in these scriptures.
Ask as many as you can, then come back here, and tell me the result.

Sure you could make the argument about heaven and hell, but that wouldn't explain animals, which have no concept of that.

Why would I make an argument about heaven and hell? What does that have to do with why God gave life?
There is no need to make an argument for something so clear and simple.

 

[Nimos]

All of this is what God wanted for humans, and you are saying you do not know what God's purpose for humans is, and the Bible does not say?

You are misunderstanding what im talking about.

I'm not talking about humans specifically, I'm talking about life as a whole and why God thought it was needed and continuing from that, why life seems to aim for surviving rather than not.

 

[nPeace]

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The benefit for life is that life is passed on, from one living thing to the next. Maybe life itself is the point; not the individual lives of separate organisms, but the universal creative energy, the imperative force, the will to be, and to become.

As to what the purpose is to all of this, I suggest that only God knows, and God - as my old dad would say - ain’t telling.

I guess that depends on which god people ask.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - the one described in the entire book of the people of God - the true God, has told.

Meanwhile it’s up to each of us, individually and collectively, to find our own purpose in life; which I believe, must have something to do with cultivating love and respect for all living things.

The thing about that, is true to the words of the prophets, "there is a way that seems upright to a man, but the way of death, is the end of it, after, because it does not belong to man to direct his own step. Proverbs 14:12; Jeremiah 10:23

Many are finding that out, daily.
In fact, it's evident each day we awake from sleep.