• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How Long Will the AHCA Survive without an Individual Mandate?

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As far as I know, the health insurance bill passed by the House eliminates the ACA's individual mandate in favor of a “continuous coverage” requirement where a person who has gone without health insurance for more than 63 days is charged an additional 30 percent fee on their premiums for the next year.

This provision does not encourage healthy people to get and maintain health insurance, but just the contrary: it creates the financial incentive for young healthy people to delay getting insurance as long as possible. If a person goes 3 years without insurance and then obtains insurance, he will have more money in his pocket than if he had paid premiums for those 3 years. If he goes 4 (or more) years without insurance, he's even better off. This way of gaming the system will undoubtedly be especially attractive to those who recognize that their deductibles and co-pays are or will be so high that they can't afford to use their insurance anyway.

In my 57 years, I have never had a day without coverage of health insurance, yet during my adult life I have met my (until recent years, $250) deductible 1 year, back in 1988 when I had a minor elective surgery that required a couple of days in the hospital (it's an out-patient procedure these days). During my childhood, the year I had my tonsils removed was apparently the only year my medical expenses exceeded the deductible on my parents' insurance. So I would be one of the people who would be financially better off not having insurance for at least 3 years under the AHCA. Presumably there are still a few people like me who do not spend hours upon hours every year at the doctor's office. There are surely lots of young and middle-aged adults who are not drawing a big salary but who can do enough math to recognize that they would be financially rewarded by waiting until they need health insurance.

In American Federation of Independent Businesses v. Sebelius, the Court succinctly explained the process of adverse selection (my bolding):

To ensure that individuals with medical histories have access to affordable insurance, Congress devised a three-part solution. First, Congress imposed a “guaranteed issue” requirement, which bars insurers from denying coverage to any person on account of that person’s medical condition or history. See 42 U. S. C. §§300gg–1, 300gg–3, 300gg–4(a) (2006 ed., Supp. IV). Second, Congress required insurers to use “community rating” to price their insurance policies. See §300gg. Community rating, in effect, bars insurance companies from charging higher premiums to those with preexisting conditions.

But these two provisions, Congress comprehended, could not work effectively unless individuals were given a powerful incentive to obtain insurance. See Hearings before the House Ways and Means Committee, 111th Cong., 1st Sess., 10, 13 (2009) (statement of Uwe Reinhardt) (“[ I ]mposition of community-rated premiums and guaranteed issue on a market of competing private health insurers will inexorably drive that market into extinction, unless these two features are coupled with . . . a mandate on individual[ s ] to be insured.” (emphasis in original)).

In the 1990’s, several States -- including New York, New Jersey, Washington, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont -- enacted guaranteed-issue and community rating laws without requiring universal acquisition of insurance coverage. The results were disastrous. “All seven states suffered from skyrocketing insurance premium costs, reductions in individuals with coverage, and reductions in insurance products and providers.” Brief for American Association of People with Disabilities et al. as Amici Curiae in No. 11–398, p. 9 (hereinafter AAPD Brief). See also Brief for Governor of Washington Christine Gregoire as Amicus Curiae in No. 11–398, pp. 11–14 (describing the “death spiral” in the insurance market Washington experienced when the State passed a law requiring coverage for preexisting conditions).

Congress comprehended that guaranteed-issue and community-rating laws alone will not work. When insurance companies are required to insure the sick at affordable prices, individuals can wait until they become ill to buy insurance. Pretty soon, those in need of immediate medical care -- i.e., those who cost insurers the most -- become the insurance companies’ main customers. This “adverse selection” problem leaves insurers with two choices: They can either raise premiums dramatically to cover their ever-increasing costs or they can exit the market. In the seven States that tried guaranteed-issue and community rating requirements without a minimum coverage provision, that is precisely what insurance companies did. See, e.g., AAPD Brief 10 (“[In Maine,] [m]any insurance providers doubled their premiums in just three years or less.”); id., at 12 (“Like New York, Vermont saw substantial increases in premiums after its . . . insurance reform measures took effect in 1993.”); Hall, An Evaluation of New York’s Reform Law, 25 J. Health Pol. Pol’y & L. 71, 91–92 (2000) (Guaranteed-issue and community-rating laws resulted in a “dramatic exodus of indemnity insurers from New York’s individual [insurance] market.”); Brief for Barry Friedman et al. as Amici Curiae in No. 11–398, p. 17 (“In Kentucky, all but two insurers (one State-run) abandoned the State.”).​

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

The AHCA does not provide that “powerful incentive” for people to obtain insurance--it provides a powerful financial incentive for healthy people to delay obtaining insurance.

So how long will the AHCA survive the consequences of adverse selection? Within one year, only the very rich will be able to afford health insurance. Then what?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The AHCA is already dead. The Senate has said so.

The whole plan was to steal from the poor to give to the rich and what they passed did that very well. I'm sure that whatever the Senate comes up with will have that same intent but not so blatantly.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The AHCA is already dead. The Senate has said so.
I didn't know the Senate said the AHCA is DOA. Thanks. Who said it?

The whole plan was to steal from the poor to give to the rich and what they passed did that very well. I'm sure that whatever the Senate comes up with will have that same intent but not so blatantly.
Regardless of the intention for it, if a health care scheme requires guaranteed issue of insurance and community rating but does not have an individual (or emoloyer) mandate, it will quickly go into a death spiral. Then what?
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
One of the downfalls of the AFC was younger, healthy people saw no reason to purchase insurance unless, possibly, catastrophic coverage only. That was part of the downfall of the AFC, pull out one segment and the other are unable to stand. Until we acknowledge that health care is a right and not a privilege the more vulnerable among us need not apply.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Stop voting republican if you want to see the healthcare system get better. They're just in it for the money, which is why the problem is where it is today. That's the only solution.

Capitalistic greed has taken grasp at that level of corporation, the problem is the current system allowing/encouraging these ridiculous rates we have to pay for healthcare to begin with. The ACA wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for these greedy corporations that have inflated prices beyond any rational standpoint.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I didn't know the Senate said the AHCA is DOA. Thanks. Who said it?

Regardless of the intention for it, if a health care scheme requires guaranteed issue of insurance and community rating but does not have an individual (or emoloyer) mandate, it will quickly go into a death spiral. Then what?
Senate won't vote on House-passed healthcare bill is one article saying the Senate will ignore the House bill. Of course, given what we saw in the House, I'm not betting the farm on it, but the 52-48 margin in the Senate is a lot closer so I don't expect the House bill to rise like a zombie and eat the brains of Senators.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well, I see now I misunderstood the AHCA--it will not use community rating. Insurance companies will be able to charge persons with pre-existing conditions whatever they want. So,instead of only rich people being able to afford insurance within a year's time, the AHCA will ensure that only rich people will be able to afford insurance immediately. Really, there's no reason to drag out our slow march to either the Poor House or the grave.

Is it true that the AHCA includes orange hair dye as a treatment covered by health insurance?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Stop voting republican if you want to see the healthcare system get better. They're just in it for the money, which is why the problem is where it is today. That's the only solution.
The ACA is in a death spiral also.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
One of the downfalls of the AFC was younger, healthy people saw no reason to purchase insurance unless, possibly, catastrophic coverage only. That was part of the downfall of the AFC, pull out one segment and the other are unable to stand. Until we acknowledge that health care is a right and not a privilege the more vulnerable among us need not apply.
What is AFC?
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
I don't know how republicans will ever pass a health care bill. The senate and the house are filled with very different republicans. The house has a more hardcore element in it, which is why their bill was so absurd. The senate isn't likely to come up with a bill that will pass the house.

The irony is that the ACA is essentially a republican plan from the 90's. Everything, right down to the mandate, comes from the Republicans alternative plan to the Clinton attempts at national health care.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
The irony is that the ACA is essentially a republican plan from the 90's. Everything, right down to the mandate, comes from the Republicans alternative plan to the Clinton attempts at national health care.
This really is the irony.

When Hillary tried to implement something resembling UHC, the Republicans proposed what is now known as Obamacare as an alternative. Hillarycare went down to defeat. After ACA passed in Congress, the White House, SCOTUS, and Obama got reelected, the Republicans didn't like it any more. It was popular amongst the electorate.
Tom
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
This really is the irony.

When Hillary tried to implement something resembling UHC, the Republicans proposed what is now known as Obamacare as an alternative. Hillarycare went down to defeat. After ACA passed in Congress, the White House, SCOTUS, and Obama got reelected, the Republicans didn't like it any more. It was popular amongst the electorate.
Tom

I've never understood why this wasn't a talking point on every democrats lips when republicans started slamming the plan.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Some of them certainly...
Some.
Certainly.

Clinton did sign NAFTA. Hillary did vote for the Iraq invasion. Obama instituted RomneyCare.
Etc etc.

The main difference between the Republicans and Democrats is the lies they tell before getting elected. After that, they're not easily distinguished. I prefer the lies Democrats tell, and I think that they do a better job for the 99%. But it isn't all that different.
Tom
 
Top