How much "interfaith" is the Bahai faith really?

[Sirona]

How much "interfaith" is the Bahai faith really?

I've been reading web pages by ex-Bahais lately. I must say that most of them are written by Muslims seeing the Bahais supported by those so-called "evil Zionists" or by people who after a long odyssey came "home" to their Christian faith. I found it intriguing that one author mentioned the Bahais "pursuing a marketing strategy of their faith to people in Europe or the U.S." with Bahais claiming that they had actually done more for religious understanding than the internet has, or with Bahais claiming they were in favor of the equality of men and women, while women are not allowed to be elected to the Bahai hierarchical councils with the reason that they were moody because of their monthly period.

I can't say much about Bahais IRL as I only met some Bahai students at university. They tried to invite me to their meetings, but I declined. However, I attended a lecture by Bahais who presented their faith during an "anti-racism week" held by the city in which I studied.

In another thread I wrote about my feeling that discussing about religions may be used as a Bahai method to get a foot in the door, similar to the practice of some Christians of offering you a cookie, asking you about how you're doing and becoming your "friend".

In some testmonies of ex-Bahais I read that potential converts are invited to prayer meetings where texts from various religions are read. One author called these meetings "deceptive" stating that they are held to get potential converts into studying the Bahai scriptures and finally confessing their faith in Baha'ullah, "turning mystics into bureaucrats", as he said.

I think real interfaith means for all parties involves acknowledging that your religious truths are somewhat "relative". Making people confess faith into one "absolute" prophet, like Bahaullah in this example, seems the opposite of honest interfaith dialogue to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't really find anything special or unique about the religion. It comes across as dogmatic and proselytizing similar to abrahamic faiths that also claim to be open and accommodating while behind closed doors so to speak, you find the type of hierarchy that makes one scratches the head and say, "No. It's not really an open religion". It can't be anyways when you think about it.

 

[Vinayaka]

How much "interfaith" is the Bahai faith really?

I've been reading web pages by ex-Bahais lately. I must say that most of them are written by Muslims seeing the Bahais supported by those so-called "evil Zionists" or by people who after a long odyssey came "home" to their Christian faith. I found it intriguing that one author mentioned the Bahais "pursuing a marketing strategy of their faith to people in Europe or the U.S." with Bahais claiming that they had actually done more for religious understanding than the internet has, or with Bahais claiming they were in favor of the equality of men and women, while women are not allowed to be elected to the Bahai hierarchical councils with the reason that they were moody because of their monthly period.

I can't say much about Bahais IRL as I only met some Bahai students at university. They tried to invite me to their meetings, but I declined. However, I attended a lecture by Bahais who presented their faith during an "anti-racism week" held by the city in which I studied.

In another thread I wrote about my feeling that discussing about religions may be used as a Bahai method to get a foot in the door, similar to the practice of some Christians of offering you a cookie, asking you about how you're doing and becoming your "friend".

In some testmonies of ex-Bahais I read that potential converts are invited to prayer meetings where texts from various religions are read. One author called these meetings "deceptive" stating that they are held to get potential converts into studying the Bahai scriptures and finally confessing their faith in Baha'ullah, "turning mystics into bureaucrats", as he said.

I think real interfaith means for all parties involves acknowledging that your religious truths are somewhat "relative". Making people confess faith into one "absolute" prophet, like Bahaullah in this example, seems the opposite of honest interfaith dialogue to me.

To coin an oft used phrase ... lots of talk the talk but not much walk the walk. People are people though, and all faiths deserve tolerance, unless they get aggressive or violent towards mankind.

 

[danieldemol]

How much "interfaith" is the Bahai faith really?

I tend to think of the Baha'i faith as more of a religion in it's own right than an interfaith movement. That being said it is supportive of interfaith initiatives.

I've been reading web pages by ex-Bahais lately... ...with Bahais claiming that they had actually done more for religious understanding than the internet has, or with Bahais claiming they were in favor of the equality of men and women, while women are not allowed to be elected to the Bahai hierarchical councils with the reason that they were moody because of their monthly period.

The ex-community tend to love the nutpicker fallacy, out of millions of people you will find that backwards nut who thinks women's periods disqualify them from leadership, or there may even be some over-zelous nut who thinks the Baha'i faith has done more than the internet (although this second one I haven't heard of so I think you should be asking for a citation).

That being said, although women are allowed on local and national assemblies, they are forbidden by Baha'u'llah from making up the membership of the Universal House of Justice, and it is something that a liberal like me would agree should be changed.

I think real interfaith means for all parties involves acknowledging that your religious truths are somewhat "relative". Making people confess faith into one "absolute" prophet, like Bahaullah in this example, seems the opposite of honest interfaith dialogue to me.

I think real interfaith means acknowledging that people have their own ideas about what truth is. I believe personally that all religions are manmade, but I wouldn't go into an interfaith dialogue expecting a Christian to lie and say its all relative when they believe they hold the absolute truth for example.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe personally that all religions are manmade

With a lot of things in religion, I would agree with you that they probably are manmade. Then, what I usually say is that the religious leaders or prophets of that religion say that it came from God to give their teachings divine authority. Baha'is almost say that. The difference is that they will say that the prophet/manifestation brought a message from God, but then traditions and misinterpretations work there way into the religion, so that the original message was distorted or even lost. Then, a new messenger had to come and clear up the false teachings and bring a new set of laws that better fit with the times.

My complaint with this is that it makes the beliefs and teachings of every religion except the Baha'i Faith off a little to a lot. So if Baha'i truly believe that all the other religions have false beliefs, then it is hard to convince people how much Baha'is want to support interfaith dialogue. What is very obvious, they want point out how all those religions have had their day. They are filled with misconceptions of religious and spiritual truth. That all those other religions have prophecies that point to the Baha'i Faith. And, a person with a "pure" heart should see that the Baha'i Faith is the truth and the fulfillment of their old religious beliefs.

I, of course, question that. Because I don't see things like the resurrection of Jesus as symbolic, maybe a hoax, but not symbolic. And that Christians intended and believe Jesus rose from the dead physically... and that the NT clearly teaches that. The same with Hinduism and other religions that believe in reincarnation. I don't see that as something that got added in. I think reincarnation is solidly a foundational belief of Hinduism. So, because of that, no matter how wonderful the other Baha'i teachings are, I can't totally agree with what they believe.

 

[paarsurrey]

I tend to think of the Baha'i faith as more of a religion in it's own right than an interfaith movement. That being said it is supportive of interfaith initiatives.


The ex-community tend to love the nutpicker fallacy, out of millions of people you will find that backwards nut who thinks women's periods disqualify them from leadership, or there may even be some over-zelous nut who thinks the Baha'i faith has done more than the internet (although this second one I haven't heard of so I think you should be asking for a citation).

That being said, although women are allowed on local and national assemblies, they are forbidden by Baha'u'llah from making up the membership of the Universal House of Justice, and it is something that a liberal like me would agree should be changed.


I think real interfaith means acknowledging that people have their own ideas about what truth is. I believe personally that all religions are manmade, but I wouldn't go into an interfaith dialogue expecting a Christian to lie and say its all relative when they believe they hold the absolute truth for example.

"a liberal like me"

What does one mean by that?What kind of "liberal" one is, please?
One's own understanding of it, not from a lexicon,please?

Regards

 

[danieldemol]

"a liberal like me"

What does one mean by that?What kind of "liberal" one is, please?
One's own understanding of it, not from a lexicon,please?

Regards

I mean one who doesn’t adhere to the idea that any religion is 100per cent true.

I believe that we attempt to perceive truth as coloured through the lens of our own personality.

 

[CG Didymus]

In another thread I wrote about my feeling that discussing about religions may be used as a Bahai method to get a foot in the door, similar to the practice of some Christians of offering you a cookie, asking you about how you're doing and becoming your "friend".

I don't mind that Baha'is and Christian try to be your "friend" and ask questions that are designed to get the conversation into a teaching about the Baha'i Faith episode. However, if Baha'u'llah is, all at once, the return of Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, and every other religion's promised end times, destroy evil and Satan, and make everything perfect and lead the world into peace... then is that really the method that God thinks is best?

For me, there's too many reasons to question and doubt the claims. If the prophecies of one religion say this person is supposed to be like this and do such and such, but Baha'u'llah does something different, then how are those prophesies really fulfilled? For Baha'is the answer seems to be that the prophesies aren't exact. But then what good are they if they can be interpreted and twisted to mean anything?

Even the name Baha'u'llah and The Bab are a little strange. Who gave them these titles? Were they really the prophesied names of the person that was to return? Like did Krishna say that he was going to come back as the "Glory of God"? But since these names are titles taken on by people, and not their given names, those titles could have been anything. Like why not "God is love"? Or, "God with us" Or, "God is our salvation"? Or, "God's anointed one"? And then, after the title is given to this person, show all the references that have that "name" mentioned. And then say that it was prophesied?

So does the Baha'i Faith and their prophet fulfill all the prophesies of your religion? Are the teaching methods that Baha'i use to spread their method something that God and his prophet would do? Like I said, I have my doubts. Because of the vagueness in how some prophecies are fulfilled and how what is close to, if not really just proselytizing, people have very legitimate questions about the validity of the claims of the Baha'is.

 

[Sirona]

So does the Baha'i Faith and their prophet fulfill all the prophesies of your religion?

Thanks for pointing that out. The whole "interfaith" thing sounded so nice and tolerant and progressive to me that it simply didn't occur to me it might be used for that kind of thing. To be fair, the Bahais are not the only religion with claimed prophecies of the coming of a saviour, but now it makes "sense". Thanks again.

 

[arthra]

So regarding how much is the Baha'i Faith "inter-faith"? In my community I've served on an Inter-faith Council for about fifteen years. We meet regularly and share our prayers and common interests.

The Council has supported refugees, homeless surveys and programs to educate people about Islam and this following a terrorist attack that murdered fifteen people. We've joined in peaceful demonstrations for various causes.

My wife was involved last year in transporting the children of our community to a Fire Temple, a Synagogue a Mosque and a Mandir as well as a few churches. The purpose to educate the children.

In the past I've participated in World Religion Day co-sponsored by the University and the Inter-faith Council and we have had some very educational and informal meetings. The religious studies dept. at the University applauded our efforts.

In our own larger community I've met Baha'is married to Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims as well as a few atheists.

I've had many Hindu, Muslim and Sikh friends over the years.

 

[Trailblazer]

My complaint with this is that it makes the beliefs and teachings of every religion except the Baha'i Faith off a little to a lot.

The social teachings and laws of older religions are behind the times for the simple reason that the world changes so society changes. The eternal spiritual verities are the same in every true religion. So, the Baha'is have a new message, the oneness of mankind, but that does not make the other religions off, it only means they are older so their messages were older and suited for the days that are now past. Humanity was not ready for oneness back in those days, now we are.

So if Baha'i truly believe that all the other religions have false beliefs, then it is hard to convince people how much Baha'is want to support interfaith dialogue.

We believe certain doctrines of the Church are false because they are man-made. They have to be false if what be believe is true because they contradict each other; e.g. Jesus cannot be both God and a Manifestation of God. This does not have to be something we fight about. I just joined two Christian forums and I am having a dialogue and sharing and they are sharing without fighting. One Christian I found does not even believe that Jesus was God.

What is very obvious, they want point out how all those religions have had their day. They are filled with misconceptions of religious and spiritual truth. That all those other religions have prophecies that point to the Baha'i Faith. And, a person with a "pure" heart should see that the Baha'i Faith is the truth and the fulfillment of their old religious beliefs.

We believe that the dispensations of the older religions have been abrogated but the religions will never be abrogated. The other religions either have prophecies that predicted Baha'u'llah or not. This is a true/false question. If they did, this is the most important event in human history. If not, Baha'u'llah is a liar and a fraud. People are free to choose. It is not about whether a person has a pure heart or not. Only God knows whose heart is pure.

I certainly do not consider my heart pure when it comes to God, I just got lucky and stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith when I was young. I did not deserve it then and I do not deserve it now. I am constantly angry at God and wish He did not even exist, but I cannot blame Baha'u'llah for that, which is why I am still a Baha'i.

 

[Komori]

Outwardly very interfaith but inwardly not so much. During his trips to the West, ʿAbdu'l-Bahāʾ was presenting the Bahāʾī Faith as an almost universalist creed, saying such things as this:

If you belong to a Society already do not forsake your brothers. You can be a Bahá’í-Christian, a Bahá’í-Freemason, a Bahá’í-Jew, a Bahá’í-Muḥammadán. The number nine contains eight, and seven, and all the other numbers, and does not deny any of them.

• ʿAbdu’l-Bahá in London, pp. 97-98.

ʿAbdu'l-Bahāʾ also spoke at venues such as the Paris Theosophical Society, known for their universalist tendencies, but like Theosophy, the Bahāʾī Faith only maintains universalism in an outward sense. I have heard from Bahāʾīs such things as — "Oh, when one becomes a Bahāʾī, he/she does not give up their previous religion; they merely fulfill it." — while of course, the longer one remains a Bahāʾī, the more one is expected to give up ties to their previous religion and become more fully immersed in the Bahāʾī ideology. It is the same with almost all of the other so-called 'universalist' new religious movements; it's just a marketing scheme.

 

[paarsurrey]

How much "interfaith" is the Bahai faith really?

I've been reading web pages by ex-Bahais lately. I must say that most of them are written by Muslims seeing the Bahais supported by those so-called "evil Zionists" or by people who after a long odyssey came "home" to their Christian faith. I found it intriguing that one author mentioned the Bahais "pursuing a marketing strategy of their faith to people in Europe or the U.S." with Bahais claiming that they had actually done more for religious understanding than the internet has, or with Bahais claiming they were in favor of the equality of men and women, while women are not allowed to be elected to the Bahai hierarchical councils with the reason that they were moody because of their monthly period.

I can't say much about Bahais IRL as I only met some Bahai students at university. They tried to invite me to their meetings, but I declined. However, I attended a lecture by Bahais who presented their faith during an "anti-racism week" held by the city in which I studied.

In another thread I wrote about my feeling that discussing about religions may be used as a Bahai method to get a foot in the door, similar to the practice of some Christians of offering you a cookie, asking you about how you're doing and becoming your "friend".

In some testmonies of ex-Bahais I read that potential converts are invited to prayer meetings where texts from various religions are read. One author called these meetings "deceptive" stating that they are held to get potential converts into studying the Bahai scriptures and finally confessing their faith in Baha'ullah, "turning mystics into bureaucrats", as he said.

I think real interfaith means for all parties involves acknowledging that your religious truths are somewhat "relative". Making people confess faith into one "absolute" prophet, like Bahaullah in this example, seems the opposite of honest interfaith dialogue to me.

"In another thread I wrote about my feeling that discussing about religions may be used as a Bahai method to get a foot in the door, similar to the practice of some Christians of offering you a cookie, asking you about how you're doing and becoming your "friend"." Unquote

"Making people confess faith into one "absolute" prophet, like Bahaullah in this example, seems the opposite of honest interfaith dialogue to me." Unquote

It seems to be true. I agree with one.

But one should give reasonable arguments to counter all such moves and it is not difficult, just read Iqan, the so called "The Book of Certitude" by Bahaullah from the Abode of Myth, and give answers to his points.

Regards