How offended should we be?

[syo]

I hate offended people. They are the worst!

 

[Twilight Hue]

Years ago, when rock musicians were starting to grow their hair long, there was an interesting piece on British TV. Basically, a young man had been barred from technical college because his hair was long. They had the school principal and the young man on, with some others. It went on about various reasons that he should or should not be allowed to have long hair that don't apply to the subject of this thread. Anyway, at one point the principal said "It offends people". It seems so weird now, when everyone has their hair however they want and nobody cares, that this guy should think that long hair on a man was offensive, but he did.

On to my point.

How much onus does anyone have to so organize his hair, dress, or lifestyle to give the least offense to others?

On the other side, what is the limit to taking offense? Is it OK to take offense over the least thing (though obviously not small to the offendee)? How much onus is on us all to be as little offended as possible, given that in the Western world at least individual freedom is highly valued? I'm talking about things that are not physically harmful, like words, or physical appearance.

I'll throw in a few things to ponder.

"Cuss" words. Do they really do any harm? Why do they get bleeped out on TV?

Religious offense. How far should non-Muslims go to accommodate things like not publishing pictures of the Prophet? Should Muslims be less offended? Should there be "blue" laws that impose purely religious values on us all?

Cultural offense. Do jokes that target a particular race or culture do any harm? Should the "victims" have thicker skin?

Just questions, not reflective of my own views, well not much.

Offense gives something for people to talk and scream about.

Why, this forum wouldn't likely exist if it wasn't for offended people sparring with their offenders!

 

[Twilight Hue]

I hate offended people. They are the worst!

I'm offended by that offensive statement over offended people ! Which of course your clearly offended now.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How many offended people does it take to screw in a light bulb?

 

[Kathryn]

How many offended people does it take to screw in a light bulb?

50,000 because they all feel a need to work together.

 

[syo]

I'm offended by that offensive statement over offended people ! Which of course your clearly offended now.

Huh?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Huh?

Lol. Zoom!

Hopefully I wasn't too offensive. *grin*

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I don't see it as all that mysterious. First, context. In history, well that's history, it doesn't affect me. The soldiers, well I guess they had been out in the field and couldn't get to a barber. Pictures of wild haired prophets on mountaintops, they're special it doesn't apply to everyone.

In the 50's though, we'd just come out of a war when many men had been subject to army (and other services) barbers, who knew "short back and sides" and nothing much else. This reflected the army standard that everything must be neat and tidy. These barbers came out of the services and set up their own hair cutting businesses where they continued to (guess what) do "short back and sides". It was almost impossible to get them to do anything different and some guys I knew went to female hairdressers, though that was very suspect culturally.

All this was enough to make the change to longer hair very suspect to many people, as it seemed to be changing an established standard, which is always resisted.

The non-shaved style was not reserved for wild prophets or weird hermits. I don't understand why anyone would see it that way. History, I thought, is where you find the 'established standard.'

What did people in the 50's think of shakespeare? Look, there's a painting of him with an earring, and long hair. He looks like he could run a modern tattoo shop. What were the polite society people seeing, when they looked at a painting of this man? Or when they thought of almost any prior fashion, with extravagant hairstyle and clothes abounding. To me it makes no sense, sir, and it will never make sense

 

[Quagmire]

That's very likely correct, but my point was more, when these things arise who should change and to what extent? Should the young man have cut his hair?

How would you qualify the "should" in this case?

Should is a tricky word, especially when you're applying it to other people.

Should the Principal have realized that "times were a changing" and let it be? The young man was being very reasonable in the TV interview and even offered to wear a hair net in class (they were talking about getting his hair caught in machinery in "shop" lessons). He seemed totally inoffensive to me, but still the Principal was "offended".

I have a feeling it's often more about losing control over others than fear.

I don't think it's a good idea to assume something about someone based on a feeling.

Of course we should always try to understand others.

Yes, everyone seems to agree with this, in theory.

But if something I do makes someone uncomfortable and after my efforts to placate them they are still uncomfortable, I'm sorry I'm still going to do it.

I don't think anybody suggested otherwise (and I'm not sure why you'd feel it necessary to apologize for that).

Otherwise I'm putting myself under that other person's control.

I disagree. To me, whether or not a concession equates to "putting yourself under that other person's control." is entirely dependent on your motives for making that concession.

 

[Quagmire]

How many offended people does it take to screw in a light bulb?

I'm offended by your suggestion that offended people are afraid of the dark.

 

[lukethethird]

How offended should we be?

Ask a Christian, because Christians wrote the book on how offended we should be.

 

[SomeRandom]

Years ago, when rock musicians were starting to grow their hair long, there was an interesting piece on British TV. Basically, a young man had been barred from technical college because his hair was long. They had the school principal and the young man on, with some others. It went on about various reasons that he should or should not be allowed to have long hair that don't apply to the subject of this thread. Anyway, at one point the principal said "It offends people". It seems so weird now, when everyone has their hair however they want and nobody cares, that this guy should think that long hair on a man was offensive, but he did.

On to my point.

How much onus does anyone have to so organize his hair, dress, or lifestyle to give the least offense to others?

On the other side, what is the limit to taking offense? Is it OK to take offense over the least thing (though obviously not small to the offendee)? How much onus is on us all to be as little offended as possible, given that in the Western world at least individual freedom is highly valued? I'm talking about things that are not physically harmful, like words, or physical appearance.

I'll throw in a few things to ponder.

"Cuss" words. Do they really do any harm? Why do they get bleeped out on TV?

Religious offense. How far should non-Muslims go to accommodate things like not publishing pictures of the Prophet? Should Muslims be less offended? Should there be "blue" laws that impose purely religious values on us all?

Cultural offense. Do jokes that target a particular race or culture do any harm? Should the "victims" have thicker skin?

Just questions, not reflective of my own views, well not much.

I mean, I suppose you should adjust for certain social circumstances.
I wouldn’t wear a lot of my own shirts to work, for example. Just because I recognise that that is a specific activity that has established rules.
Both due to the business’ own policies and because the job is with the public. And to be honest a lot of my shirts are either weird (geek merch) or kind of rude lol
When I attend temple I wear clothing and dress according to how that temple seems appropriate. But when I go like shopping or want to hang out with friends, I wear whatever I damned well want lol

It’s part of the social contract.

That said, society changes. Not everything we found funny in the past is socially acceptable anymore.

We know “better” for some circumstances. So I think just using jokes on people who you think they will take the “wrong way” is just being a jerk. It’s okay if those jokes are used and taken as “just jokes” among your personal friends.

Everyone has their own limits and everyone should have enough maturity to back off if they go too far.
And sure some people should ideally be willing to have a little leeway and a bit of forgiveness. (Depending on the circumstance.)

But humans aren’t often like that.
Too often people try to hide behind “you’re just offended/canceling me for my opinion” to just be a complete jerk.
Sometimes people can be quite sensitive and maybe go a bit overboard at someone for causing them offence. So like everything there is a balance and caveats, I think

I also think people go too far either way and just want to bully people

 

[Kathryn]

I mean, I suppose you should adjust for certain social circumstances.
I wouldn’t wear a lot of my own shirts to work, for example. Just because I recognise that that is a specific activity that has established rules.
Both due to the business’ own policies and because the job is with the public. And to be honest a lot of my shirts are either weird (geek merch) or kind of rude lol
When I attend temple I wear clothing and dress according to how that temple seems appropriate. But when I go like shopping or want to hang out with friends, I wear whatever I damned well want lol

It’s part of the social contract.

That said, society changes. Not everything we found funny in the past is socially acceptable anymore.

We know “better” for some circumstances. So I think just using jokes on people who you think they will take the “wrong way” is just being a jerk. It’s okay if those jokes are used and taken as “just jokes” among your personal friends.

Everyone has their own limits and everyone should have enough maturity to back off if they go too far.
And sure some people should ideally be willing to have a little leeway and a bit of forgiveness. (Depending on the circumstance.)

But humans aren’t often like that.
Too often people try to hide behind “you’re just offended/canceling me for my opinion” to just be a complete jerk.
Sometimes people can be quite sensitive and maybe go a bit overboard at someone for causing them offence. So like everything there is a balance and caveats, I think

I also think people go too far either way and just want to bully people

True story time!

One time a friend of mine came over and she was wearing a T shirt that said "I love Jesus but I cuss a little," so of course I needed that shirt. I wore it out running errands one day, and I stopped into a store and was in a dressing room when right next door to me I was subjected to the most awful rants and raves from a teenage girl, who was criticizing her mother over every single thing she would bring for the daughter to try on. "Mom. That is the STUPIDEST shirt. I can't believe you'd think I'd wear that." "Mom. I HATE this dress. Ugh. Don't bring me anymore dresses like this." On and on, but with cussing included. This was not an inexpensive store either, so I figured the mom was a) trying to please her daughter and b) prepared to spend some sweet moolah to do so. I finally got so sick of hearing the daughter chastising her mom that I thought to myself, "Let me get dressed and then I am going to say something to that daughter." Then I remembered my shirt. So I just left.

 

[Alien826]

The non-shaved style was not reserved for wild prophets or weird hermits. I don't understand why anyone would see it that way. History, I thought, is where you find the 'established standard.'

What did people in the 50's think of shakespeare? Look, there's a painting of him with an earring, and long hair. He looks like he could run a modern tattoo shop. What were the polite society people seeing, when they looked at a painting of this man? Or when they thought of almost any prior fashion, with extravagant hairstyle and clothes abounding. To me it makes no sense, sir, and it will never make sense

But doesn't fashion change over time? I don't agree that history determines fashion.

 

[Alien826]

How would you qualify the "should" in this case?

Should is a tricky word, especially when you're applying it to other people.

Just the dictionary meaning of the word. I'm not sure how to make it plainer.

I don't think it's a good idea to assume something about someone based on a feeling.

How about a strong feeling?

I don't think anybody suggested otherwise (and I'm not sure why you'd feel it necessary to apologize for that).

Just a figure of speech. Obviously I'm not sorry at all.

I disagree. To me, whether or not a concession equates to "putting yourself under that other person's control." is entirely dependent on your motives for making that concession.

Maybe so, but if someone says they don't like the way you have your hair and you change it for that reason only, isn't that submitting to someone else's will? What if that leads to them not liking your shoes, and you change that and ... well, where does it end? You find you are running your life in response to another person's opinion of you.

 

[Alien826]

I mean, I suppose you should adjust for certain social circumstances.
I wouldn’t wear a lot of my own shirts to work, for example. Just because I recognise that that is a specific activity that has established rules.
Both due to the business’ own policies and because the job is with the public. And to be honest a lot of my shirts are either weird (geek merch) or kind of rude lol
When I attend temple I wear clothing and dress according to how that temple seems appropriate. But when I go like shopping or want to hang out with friends, I wear whatever I damned well want lol

Sometimes we are subject to rules that we have to abide by if we want to keep a job, or be accepted in a particular social circle. In both cases it's optional, but we tend to go along with it as the lesser evil.

That said, society changes. Not everything we found funny in the past is socially acceptable anymore.

We know “better” for some circumstances. So I think just using jokes on people who you think they will take the “wrong way” is just being a jerk. It’s okay if those jokes are used and taken as “just jokes” among your personal friends.

Everyone has their own limits and everyone should have enough maturity to back off if they go too far.
And sure some people should ideally be willing to have a little leeway and a bit of forgiveness. (Depending on the circumstance.)

But humans aren’t often like that.
Too often people try to hide behind “you’re just offended/canceling me for my opinion” to just be a complete jerk.
Sometimes people can be quite sensitive and maybe go a bit overboard at someone for causing them offence. So like everything there is a balance and caveats, I think

I also think people go too far either way and just want to bully people

I don't disagree with any of this.