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how old is the oldest christian bible?

kloth

Active Member
I'm just curious who knows this so i can find out more about it.
the oldest holy bible that is, old and/or new testament.

i wanna know more things about it like who published it (i.e. hand wrote it or typed it or carved it). not who wrote it because that would be Jesus, right? but who actually constructed the actual book or whatever it may be in form of.

i would like to know where it's at now and who owns it, and how they obtained it. i would also like to know it's history as far as who else has owned it and how they obtained it.

I'm curious as to what it looks like to.

just curious is all.

thanks
 

Karl R

Active Member
I'm just curious who knows this so i can find out more about it.
the oldest holy bible that is, old and/or new testament.
The oldest complete copy of the new testament appears to be the Codex Sinaiticus, written around 350 CE. It also contains a complete copy of the apocrypha and the second half of the old testament. There are smaller, surviving portions of the new testament which were written earlier, including a recently discovered scrap that may have been written before 100 CE.

For the oldest set of old testament documents, the dead sea scrolls contains a significant portion, but not a complete set. It's believed to have been written between 200 BCE and 100 CE.

The Aleppo Codex used to be a complete copy of the old testament. It was written around 930 CE.

That should give you somewhere to begin your research.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I'm just curious who knows this so i can find out more about it.
the oldest holy bible that is, old and/or new testament.

i wanna know more things about it like who published it (i.e. hand wrote it or typed it or carved it). not who wrote it because that would be Jesus, right? but who actually constructed the actual book or whatever it may be in form of.

i would like to know where it's at now and who owns it, and how they obtained it. i would also like to know it's history as far as who else has owned it and how they obtained it.

I'm curious as to what it looks like to.

just curious is all.

thanks

There were no publishers in those times, people wrote things.... other people made copies. What we have today are copies of copies. Few manuscripts last longer than 400 years.
The books of the Bible all had their own Authors, few of which are known today.
There are many different collections of books in the various Bible... the Bible is more like a library, and different libraries have different collections of books.

Jesus was the author of none of it... he had nothing to do with it at all. It is not even known if he could read and write. but he was a great teacher as so many of his stories were remembered and passed down through the generations.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I'm just curious who knows this so i can find out more about it.
the oldest holy bible that is, old and/or new testament.

i wanna know more things about it like who published it (i.e. hand wrote it or typed it or carved it). not who wrote it because that would be Jesus, right? but who actually constructed the actual book or whatever it may be in form of.

i would like to know where it's at now and who owns it, and how they obtained it. i would also like to know it's history as far as who else has owned it and how they obtained it.

I'm curious as to what it looks like to.

just curious is all.

thanks

The Chester Beaty Library contains the oldest manuscripts ever found. The were found after the Sinaiticus which makes them the oldest and they date back to the 2nd century.


The Watchtower put out an article about Chester Beaty, who he was and where he was from and what he collected. His library full of artifacts is located in Dublin Ireland.

WT 2004 said:
A Look at the Chester Beatty Treasures
“RICH in the treasures of so many lost civilizations, .*.*. dazzling in the beauty of its miniatures and paintings.” That is how former curator R.*J.*Hayes summed up the Chester Beatty Library in Dublin, Ireland. It is home to a vast collection of priceless antiquities, exquisite works of art, and rare books and manuscripts of almost inestimable value. So who was Chester Beatty? And what treasures did he collect?

Alfred Chester Beatty, born in 1875 in New York, U.S.A., was of Scottish, Irish, and English ancestry. By the time he was 32 years old, he had made a large personal fortune as a mining engineer and consultant. All through his life, he used his considerable resources to collect things of beauty and excellence. When he died in 1968 at the age of 92, Beatty left his entire collection to the people of Ireland.

What Did He Collect?
Beatty’s collections are extensive and varied. Only about 1*percent are exhibited at any one time. He gathered rare and precious items from many different periods and cultures spanning thousands of years—from medieval and Renaissance Europe as well as from numerous Asian and African countries. For example, his collection of exquisite Japanese woodblock prints is considered one of the finest in the world.
Standing in complete contrast with works of fine art is an intriguing collection of over a hundred Babylonian and Sumerian clay tablets with ancient cuneiform writing. People living in Mesopotamia over 4,000 years ago inscribed minute details of their lives on wet clay tablets, which were then baked. Many such tablets have survived to our day, giving us clear evidence of the antiquity of writing.

A Fascination With Books
It seems that Chester Beatty was attracted by the artistry involved in making fine books. He collected thousands of secular and religious volumes, including some intricately decorated copies of the Koran. He was, says one writer, “enthralled by the mathematical proportions of the Arabic script, .*.*. and his sense of colour was excited by the embellishment of the calligraphy with gold and silver leaf and other vivid minerals.”

Jade fascinated Chester Beatty, even as it did some of the emperors of China in earlier centuries. They considered fine jade to be the most precious of all minerals, far more valuable than gold. These rulers commissioned skilled craftsmen to transform blocks of jade into smooth, thin sheets. Gifted artists then filled these jade pages with delicate calligraphy and illustrations etched in gold, thus producing some of the most astonishing books ever made. Beatty’s collection of these books is world renowned.

Priceless Bible Manuscripts
For lovers of the Bible, Chester Beatty’s greatest treasures are in his vast collection of ancient and medieval Bible manuscripts. Beautiful illuminated manuscripts reflect the patience and artistry of the scribes who copied them by hand. The printed books display the skill and craftsmanship of early bookbinders and printers. For instance, the Biblia Latina was printed in Nuremberg in 1479 by Anton Koberger, who lived about the time of Johannes Gutenberg and is described as “one of the most important and active of the early printers.”
One exceptional exhibit in the Chester Beatty Library is an early fourth-century vellum manuscript by Ephraem, a Syrian scholar. Ephraem quotes extensively from a second-century work called the Diatessaron. In it the writer Tatian merged the four Gospel accounts of Jesus Christ’s life into a single harmonious narrative. Later writers made reference to the Diatessaron, but no copies of it have survived. Some 19th-century scholars even doubted its existence. In 1956, however, Beatty discovered Ephraem’s commentary on Tatian’s Diatessaron—a discovery that added to the existing evidence of the Bible’s authenticity and truthfulness.

A Treasure Trove of Papyrus Manuscripts
Beatty also collected a huge number of papyrus manuscripts, both religious and secular. Over 50 papyrus codices are dated earlier than the fourth century*C.E. Some of these papyri were rescued from great heaps of papyrus—essentially wastepaper dumps—that lay undiscovered for centuries in the Egyptian desert. Many papyrus documents were in a very fragmented state when put up for sale. Dealers would turn up with cardboard boxes full of papyrus scraps. “Those who were interested in buying them would simply dip in and pick out the biggest fragment that contained the most writing,” says Charles Horton, curator of the Western Collections of the Chester Beatty Library.

Beatty’s “most sensational discovery,” says Horton, consisted of precious Biblical codices that “included some of the earliest known copies of the Christian Old and New Testament.” Dealers who knew the value of the codices might well have torn them up to sell separate parts to different buyers. However, Beatty was able to buy the bulk of the find. Just how significant are these codices? Sir Frederic Kenyon describes their discovery as “by far the most important” since Tischendorf discovered the Codex Sinaiticus in 1844.
These codices are dated between the second and fourth centuries*C.E. Among books of the Hebrew Scriptures in the Greek Septuagint version are two copies of Genesis. These are of special value, says Kenyon, “because the book [of Genesis] is almost wholly lacking in the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus,” fourth-century vellum manuscripts. Three codices contain books of the Christian Greek Scriptures. One has most of the four Gospels and much of the book of Acts. The second codex, with additional leaves that Beatty obtained later, has an almost complete copy of the apostle Paul’s letters, including his epistle to the Hebrews. The third codex contains about one third of the book of Revelation. According to Kenyon, these papyri have “strengthened very materially the basis—already very strong—of our confidence in the text of the New Testament as it has come down to us.”

The Chester Beatty Biblical papyri show that Christians began to use the codex, or leaf-book, in place of the unwieldy scroll at a very early date, likely before the end of the first century*C.E. The papyri also show that with writing materials in short supply, copyists often reused old papyrus sheets. For example, one Coptic manuscript of part of John’s Gospel is written “in what seems to be a school exercise-book containing Greek sums.”
These papyrus documents are not dazzling in beauty, but they are priceless. They are a visible, tangible link to the very beginnings of Christianity. “Here, right in front of your own eyes,” says Charles Horton, “you can see the kind of books used by some of the earliest Christian communities—books that were treasured by them.” (Proverbs 2:4,*5) If you have an opportunity to examine some of these treasures in the Chester Beatty Library, you will not be disappointed.
[Picture on page*31]
Japanese woodblock print by Katsushika Hokusai
[Picture on page*31]
The “Biblia Latina” was among the earliest printed copies of the Bible
[Picture on page*31]
Ephraem’s commentary on Tatian’s “Diatessaron” reinforces the authenticity of the Bible
[Picture on page*31]
Chester Beatty P45, one of the oldest codices in the world, contains most of the four Gospels and much of the book of Acts in a single volume


If you do a google for Chester Beatty Papyrus you'll find much information on his collection.
Chester%20Beatty%20Papyrus.jpg
 
Last edited:

kloth

Active Member
The oldest complete copy of the new testament appears to be the Codex Sinaiticus, written around 350 CE. It also contains a complete copy of the apocrypha and the second half of the old testament. There are smaller, surviving portions of the new testament which were written earlier, including a recently discovered scrap that may have been written before 100 CE.

For the oldest set of old testament documents, the dead sea scrolls contains a significant portion, but not a complete set. It's believed to have been written between 200 BCE and 100 CE.

The Aleppo Codex used to be a complete copy of the old testament. It was written around 930 CE.

That should give you somewhere to begin your research.

thanks

i was also wondering how they stored these writings for so long and kept them in shape. but i guess i will find out.
 

kloth

Active Member
There were no publishers in those times, people wrote things.... other people made copies. What we have today are copies of copies. Few manuscripts last longer than 400 years.
The books of the Bible all had their own Authors, few of which are known today.
There are many different collections of books in the various Bible... the Bible is more like a library, and different libraries have different collections of books.

Jesus was the author of none of it... he had nothing to do with it at all. It is not even known if he could read and write. but he was a great teacher as so many of his stories were remembered and passed down through the generations.
well he wrote the revelations part, right?
 

kloth

Active Member
The Chester Beaty Library contains the oldest manuscripts ever found. The were found after the Sinaiticus which makes them the oldest and they date back to the 2nd century.


The Watchtower put out an article about Chester Beaty, who he was and where he was from and what he collected. His library full of artifacts is located in Dublin Ireland.




If you do a google for Chester Beatty Papyrus you'll find much information on his collection.
thanks
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
well he wrote the revelations part, right?

no, Jesus did not put anything in writing. His followers were the ones who put his life story down in writing, the four accounts are known as the 'Gospels' of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

The rest of the New Testament is made up of letters written to the christian congregations by the apostles or elders in Jerusalem.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
thanks

i was also wondering how they stored these writings for so long and kept them in shape. but i guess i will find out.
Storing them in a warm, dry environment seemed to help. Keep in mind that the Codex Sinaiticus was kept at St. Catherine's Monastery at Mt. Sinai for all that time, stored in the monastery's library. Some of the oldest icons in existence are also to be found at St. Catherine's.
 

ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
I think perhaps that there would have been even older copies of the New Testament than the ones in existence had the canon of the Bible been decided upon earlier than it was.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I think perhaps that there would have been even older copies of the New Testament than the ones in existence had the canon of the Bible been decided upon earlier than it was.

that begs the question .. which canon? which Bible?
One can argue that earlier Bibles and collections did exist .The Coptic and Ethiopian Bibles may be significantly older and contain a different canon.
 

kloth

Active Member
no, Jesus did not put anything in writing. His followers were the ones who put his life story down in writing, the four accounts are known as the 'Gospels' of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

The rest of the New Testament is made up of letters written to the christian congregations by the apostles or elders in Jerusalem.

i think there's difference in writing and wrote for this case. i can write down the lyrics from a popular song with my own hands but that doesn't mean i wrote it, someone else wrote it.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
so those words were johns and not that of jesus? i thought john was a just a reporter if you will or like a publisher.

Who ever wrote John might have considered him self to be reporting the events and teachings surrounding Jesus life. However there is no evidence that that was the case. The writing does not even sound like first hand evidence. It sounds more like collected stories that have been written down.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
so those words were johns and not that of jesus? i thought john was a just a reporter if you will or like a publisher.
The Book of Revelation was a vision of St. John. Jesus appears in parts of that vision, but not all of it. It most certainly wasn't dictated by Jesus. None of the Bible was.
 

roger1440

I do stuff
There isn’t an agreement among scholars and theologians who wrote the 27 books of the New Testament. We do know Jesus did not the Gospels found in the New Testament. All the Gospels speak of Jesus in the third person instead of the first person. Here is an example. If I were to write a story about myself, I might write something like, “I went to the store on Sunday. Then I bought a dozen eggs.” I would not write,” Roger1440 went to the store on Sunday. Then roger1440 bought a dozen eggs.”
 

kloth

Active Member
Who ever wrote John might have considered him self to be reporting the events and teachings surrounding Jesus life. However there is no evidence that that was the case. The writing does not even sound like first hand evidence. It sounds more like collected stories that have been written down.

i wasn't talking about evidence. just what is believed by Christians whether there's enough evidence or not.
 

ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
that begs the question .. which canon? which Bible?
One can argue that earlier Bibles and collections did exist .The Coptic and Ethiopian Bibles may be significantly older and contain a different canon.

Here are two different links from New Advent Catholic Encylopedia. One of them is about the canon of the Old Testament and the other is about the canon of the New Testament.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Canon of the Old Testament

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Canon of the New Testament

From what I understand the canon of the Old Testament was settled from the very beginning because the canon of the Old Testament in use by the Jews at the time of Jesus is the same canon of the Old Testament that Christians used ever since the beginning. The Jews did change the canon of the Old Testament some time after the time of Christ from what I understand but I don't know why they did so.

As for the canon of the New Testament, it was highly debated on which books to include for a few centuries but then the Church finally decided which books to officially include in the canon of the New Testament at one of the Church councils. I know that the Council of Trent defined what the canon of the Bible would be but I am not sure if they did this in response to some Protestants rejecting the Deuterocanonicals or what.
 
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