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How old would an Muslim say the Earth/Universe is?

skydivephil

Active Member
Its not me theat made a specific refcerence to 6,000 years. Ist the Qur'an that specifically says 6 days. You said the purpose of saying 6 days was to avoid monotony , are you now back tracking and giving us a different meaning? Ill ask you again, how would saying the Earth was made over millions of years be less monotonous. If anything I would have thought it would be mroe amazing as nobody had observed numbers in these values before. Furthermore , is the Qur'an adddressed to thsoe living 7th century Arabia Or is supposed to be addressed to all poeople across time? I have studied religion and the simpliest explanation is that the authors believed the story of creation told by Jeiwsh and Christian theists and incoporated into their own beliefs. They didnt realise these guys just got it wrong.
Presumably in your system there is no way for any text to have a wrong statement. After all whenever it says something blatatntly wrong you'll just say its a metaphor right?
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
Its not me theat made a specific refcerence to 6,000 years. Ist the Qur'an that specifically says 6 days. You said the purpose of saying 6 days was to avoid monotony , are you now back tracking and giving us a different meaning? Ill ask you again, how would saying the Earth was made over millions of years be less monotonous. If anything I would have thought it would be mroe amazing as nobody had observed numbers in these values before. Furthermore , is the Qur'an adddressed to thsoe living 7th century Arabia Or is supposed to be addressed to all poeople across time? I have studied religion and the simpliest explanation is that the authors believed the story of creation told by Jeiwsh and Christian theists and incoporated into their own beliefs. They didnt realise these guys just got it wrong.
Presumably in your system there is no way for any text to have a wrong statement. After all whenever it says something blatatntly wrong you'll just say its a metaphor right?

I never said the purpose of using 6 days was to avoid monotony specifically. Kindly check before you start writing. I was talking about allegories and had said that allegories etc are put in for various reasons such as to avoid monotony, give the listener a feel of the story in oral cultures. These are only two of the possible reasons. I thought the use of the words: such that makes it clear. You are twisting my words for the purposes of scoring petty points. The use of 6 days specifically may very well be due to other reasons as well. (in fact they may very well be from Jewish tradition as you say) Tell me when someone says that such that, do you understand only that?

Do you understand what the Quran says? Leaving aside the all the stuff about physical things (of which I say that the Quran is not geared to talk about), do you comprehend the meaning of the Quran? Can you summarize it a little? If you can do that, then presumably your whole objections will start to carry some weight. For otherwise, its just that you have no idea of what you are talking about.

I do not agree that the literal words of the Quran are directed towards all people of all ages(and have said so before on this forum as well). It is the intention, or the substance of the message that is valid for all. If you have nothing to say about the substance, and want to quibble about the literal words, havent I already said that the Quran cant withstand that kind of legalistic scrutiny. I fail to see, what possible issue you could have had with that statement.
 

Bowman

Active Member
Never did I say that I can understand Arabic. But that doesnt mean that I cannot think logically.

If you admit to not knowing Arabic, then how can you possibly defend your position?

You will forever be unable to even know for sure what your book of faith really states without studying it, brother.

Is this the type of logic that you are operating under...?

Make the time.

Just do it.




I dont agree that the Quran mandates any date, 6000+X or whatever. my point remains that this is not the correct interpretation of the verse.

How would you even know what the correct 'interpretaion' is, brother?



I don't agree that all verses have to be taken literally, specially not those that aren't the substance of the Book. (see verse 3:7)


'Alkitaba' always refers to the Holy Bible whenever used in the Koran, brother.

What part of this verse do you want to be used for your position?



What I wish to point out that your claims that the Quran says that the age of the earth is 6000 years is not logical on even the most literal reading.


You are the only one saying the age of the earth is 6,000 years, brother.

Your Koran claims that the entire age of the Universe and all that was created therein is 6,000 years!

You do understand the difference, yes?

This places the authors of the Koran in an even more inept state...





Where does the Quran say the age of all creation is 6000 years? It says God created everything in six "days". You have given a verse number to that effect. Uptil that there isnt any logical error. Now lets see a verse about the age, as well. For until you do that that you cant say that the Quran says that the age of the earth/universe is 6000 years.

What part do you disagree with, brother...?


الله الذي خلق السموت والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام ثم استوى على العرش ما لكم من دونه من ولي ولا شفيع أفلا تتذكرون يدبر الأمر من السماء إلى الأرض ثم يعرج إليه في يوم كان مقداره ألف سنة مما تعدون



Its like I was created as a baby in 9 months. You are now saying that it means my current age is 9 months!

Regards


The difference being that you only mentioned a baby. The authors of the Koran mentioned all creation.

Understand yet?
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Why should anyone care what the koran, or any "holy" book, says about the age of the earth? We have reliable means of finding out without turning to religion.
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
If you admit to not knowing Arabic, then how can you possibly defend your position?

Firstly that is not something I have to admit to, as if that was something wrong. I say this openly. I can read the reliable translations and compare them and then think on my own.

'Alkitaba' always refers to the Holy Bible whenever used in the Koran, brother.

Thats nonsense. Kitab means book (it means so in Urdu as well, which I know quite well) and is not necessarily translated as the holy Bible. It is referring to the Quran itself here, not the Holy Bible. (see this Quran for example. )

What part of this verse do you want to be used for your position?

That there are verses other then the substance of the book, the basic fundamental ideas which are allegories and not meant to be taken literally.

You are the only one saying the age of the earth is 6,000 years, brother.

Rubbish. I never said that. You are the one who came along and said that the age of the earth/universe is 6000 years according to the Quran. You are yet to show me a verse from the Quran which says so. You claimed that there was a verse about the age of the earth in your first post which you are yet to show me. You have shown verses related to how long it took to create but not regarding to age.

You do understand the difference, yes?

Do you understand the difference yourself between age of something and how long it took to create it?

I feel that you havent the faintest idea of what I have been saying:S Can you post a verse about the age of the earth, (not about how long it took to create it). Simple question. Yes or No?
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Totally wrong.

Jesus is many things in the Koran...including the Son, The Praised One, The Preacher, The Guardian of Paradise, God, etc, etc...
Do you have a verse proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God? I would be interested in seeing that.

Bowman said:
The authors of the Koran thought it most appropriate.
Do you have a verse from the Koran claiming that "the Truth" exclusively referse to Jesus? (Remember, this was your original claim that the word "Truth" must refer to Jesus.)

Bowman said:
Better think again, brother....you apparently don't understand the Trinity...
That is the standard understanding of the Trinity according to Christian theology.
Here's just from a snippet of various websites:
God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God.
From Here


The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians, who clearly understood them in the sense that we do today—that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).
From Here


I'd be surprised if you could find a mainstream Christian concept of the trinity which did not state that they were all one being.

Bowman said:
Since when is your 'right hand' deity?
It's not my problem if you cannot understand the simple analogy.
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
I feel that this thread has been derailed from its original question. The way it is going I dont think anyone is going to concede their position.
 

Bowman

Active Member
Firstly that is not something I have to admit to, as if that was something wrong. I say this openly. I can read the reliable translations and compare them and then think on my own.

What then do you use to judge a 'reliable' translation, brother...?

Popularity?




Thats nonsense. Kitab means book (it means so in Urdu as well, which I know quite well) and is not necessarily translated as the holy Bible. It is referring to the Quran itself here, not the Holy Bible. (see this Quran for example. )

الكتب = “alkitabi”

“alkitabi” definition:

Lane references sura 2.2 in his definition:


ذلك الكتب لا ريب فيه هدى للمتقين


Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena

That The Book no doubt/suspicion in it, (it is) guidance to the fearing and obeying. (2.2)



“That is the book, or scripture”; as though combining in itself the excellences of all other books or scriptures; or meaning that is preeminently the book, or scripture. The Pentateuch or Mosaic Law; and the Gospel, or Book of the Gospels; the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians. Divine prescript, appointment, or ordinance; judgment, or sentence; fatal decree or predestination.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, p. 74; volume seven, p. 2590






That there are verses other then the substance of the book, the basic fundamental ideas which are allegories and not meant to be taken literally.

Based upon what?




Rubbish. I never said that. You are the one who came along and said that the age of the earth/universe is 6000 years according to the Quran.

Now...you are changing your story.

Earth is separate from earth/Universe, brother.

And...yes...you mentioned earth, only...

Your Koran states all creation as 6,000 years.



You are yet to show me a verse from the Quran which says so. You claimed that there was a verse about the age of the earth in your first post which you are yet to show me. You have shown verses related to how long it took to create but not regarding to age.

We have shown you several times...the last in Arabic...however, you don't know any Arabic...remember...?


Do you understand the difference yourself between age of something and how long it took to create it?

Yes.

So did the authors of the Koran when they stated 6,000 years for the entire Universe and all that is in it...



I feel that you havent the faintest idea of what I have been saying:S Can you post a verse about the age of the earth, (not about how long it took to create it). Simple question. Yes or No?

The Koran lumps the age of the earth and the age of the Universe, along with all of creation as 6,000 years, brother...

Now...take this 6,000 years and add to it how many years you think have passed since the last creation event - which would be mankind.
 

Bowman

Active Member
Do you have a verse proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God? I would be interested in seeing that.



ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7)



Observe that “Theos” is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb “esomai” establishing Him as God.

Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.






Do you have a verse from the Koran claiming that "the Truth" exclusively referse to Jesus? (Remember, this was your original claim that the word "Truth" must refer to Jesus.)



Observe how “alhaqqi” is applied to Jesus Christ in the Koran, as the following quintessential Koranic ayah informs us that ‘The Truth’, is only Jesus Christ…




يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله


إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله


وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله


ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله


إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في


السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا


Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son,truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.


Exception…

The first word that we encounter in this ayah, after the term “allah”, is “illa” which gives exception to what follows it, as told to us by the classic definition…


إلا = “illa”

“illa” definition:

Regarded as a simple word. If not; unless; except; some; otherwise; less; but; and; also. This word is used to signify the sense of exception. This exception is of two kinds: 1) Exception in which the thing excepted belongs to the same class or species to which the things from which an exception is sought to be made, belongs. 2) Exception in which the excepted thing belongs to a different class or species. It commonly governs the accusative. It also means not even.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 76 - 78
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 27



The exception, which applies to “alhaqqa”, (‘The Truth’) is then juxtaposed to the following word “innama”…



إنما= “innama”

“innama” definition:

According to the grammarians, it is a compound of “inna” and “ma”, which latter prevents the former’s having any government: it imports restriction: it imports the restriction of that which it precedes to that which follows it. In other words, it is used to particularize, or specify, or distinguish a thing from other things: it affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it, and denies it in relation to other things. Some say that it does not import restriction, but only corroboration of an affirmation, because it is a compound of the corroborative “inna” and the redundant “ma” which restrains the former from exercising government, and that it has no application to denote negation implied in restriction. It therefore seems that it is susceptible of both these meanings, bearing one or the other according as this or that suits the place. Rendered as “only”, verily.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 – 111; 118
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 11


The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.

Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. The Truth), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus – which is mentioned after it.

The exception is Jesus Christ, in a class all by Himself.

Hence, “The Truth is only Jesus Christ”.
 

Bowman

Active Member
That is the standard understanding of the Trinity according to Christian theology.
Here's just from a snippet of various websites:
From Here

From Here

I'd be surprised if you could find a mainstream Christian concept of the trinity which did not state that they were all one being.

It's not my problem if you cannot understand the simple analogy.



TrinityShield_300.jpg





The concept of the Biblical Trinity can be visualized by the Trinity Shield.

There are twelve possible deity combinations as thus:

  • The Father is God
  • God is the Father
  • The Son is God
  • God is the Son
  • The Spirit is God
  • God is the Spirit
  • The Father is not the Son
  • The Son is not the Father
  • The Son is not the Spirit
  • The Spirit is not the Son
  • The Spirit is not the Father
  • The Father is not the Spirit
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7)



Observe that “Theos” is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb “esomai” establishing Him as God.

Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.
I know that Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I was asking whether there was a Koranic verse proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God.


Bowman said:
Observe how “alhaqqi” is applied to Jesus Christ in the Koran, as the following quintessential Koranic ayah informs us that ‘The Truth’, is only Jesus Christ…
Bowman said:
يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله


إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله


وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله


ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله


إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في


السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا


Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son,truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.


Exception…

The first word that we encounter in this ayah, after the term “allah”, is “illa” which gives exception to what follows it, as told to us by the classic definition…


إلا = “illa”

“illa” definition:

Regarded as a simple word. If not; unless; except; some; otherwise; less; but; and; also. This word is used to signify the sense of exception. This exception is of two kinds: 1) Exception in which the thing excepted belongs to the same class or species to which the things from which an exception is sought to be made, belongs. 2) Exception in which the excepted thing belongs to a different class or species. It commonly governs the accusative. It also means not even.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 76 - 78
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 27



The exception, which applies to “alhaqqa”, (‘The Truth’) is then juxtaposed to the following word “innama”…



إنما= “innama”

“innama” definition:

According to the grammarians, it is a compound of “inna” and “ma”, which latter prevents the former’s having any government: it imports restriction: it imports the restriction of that which it precedes to that which follows it. In other words, it is used to particularize, or specify, or distinguish a thing from other things: it affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it, and denies it in relation to other things. Some say that it does not import restriction, but only corroboration of an affirmation, because it is a compound of the corroborative “inna” and the redundant “ma” which restrains the former from exercising government, and that it has no application to denote negation implied in restriction. It therefore seems that it is susceptible of both these meanings, bearing one or the other according as this or that suits the place. Rendered as “only”, verily.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 – 111; 118
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 11


The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.

Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. The Truth), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus – which is mentioned after it.

The exception is Jesus Christ, in a class all by Himself.

Hence, “The Truth is only Jesus Christ”.
I don't know what translation you are using, but I just googled "koran 4:171" and what I got from the "Authorized English Tranlation of the Koran" was this:

"4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.


It says that Jesus was a messenger of God, but specifically denounces the concept of the Trinity, as well as the concept of Jesus as the Son of God. As for the word "truth" in there, I don't know if you simply missed the period, demarcing the end of the sentence, but it has nothing to do with Jesus. It is simply warning believers to only speak the truth about God-- which would include not claiming that Jesus was God.
 
Last edited:

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
TrinityShield_300.jpg





The concept of the Biblical Trinity can be visualized by the Trinity Shield.

There are twelve possible deity combinations as thus:

  • The Father is God
  • God is the Father
  • The Son is God
  • God is the Son
  • The Spirit is God
  • God is the Spirit
  • The Father is not the Son
  • The Son is not the Father
  • The Son is not the Spirit
  • The Spirit is not the Son
  • The Spirit is not the Father
  • The Father is not the Spirit
And how is that any different than what I said? The Trinity = 3 distinct persons in one Being = God
 

Bowman

Active Member
I know that Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I was asking whether there was a Koranic verse proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God.


The same verse, 4.171, for starters...




I don't know what translation you are using, but I just googled "koran 4:171" and what I got from the "Authorized English Tranlation of the Koran" was this:

"4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.


It says that Jesus was a messenger of God, but specifically denounces the concept of the Trinity,


Nope.

The word 'Trinity' never existed in classic Arabic, brother.



as well as the concept of Jesus as the Son of God.

Nope.

There is absolutely no denial of the Son in the Arabic.



As for the word "truth" in there, I don't know if you simply missed the period, demarcing the end of the sentence, but it has nothing to do with Jesus.


It has absolutely everything to do with Jesus per Arabic grammar, brother.

And...there were no periods in classic Arabic, either...



It is simply warning believers to only speak the truth about God-- which would include not claiming that Jesus was God.

Nope.

Not in the Arabic...
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Bowman, the verse speaks for itself. You are having it say exactly the opposite from what it actually says. This denial is not healthy.

Here is another translation from here:
004.171YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

And another from here:
4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.


I really don't think a verse could be any more clear. Jesus was a messenger. There is only one God; don't fall into this idea that he is three. God didn't have a son.
 

Bowman

Active Member
Bowman, the verse speaks for itself.

Indeed it does...in the Arabic...


You are having it say exactly the opposite from what it actually says. This denial is not healthy.

Nope.

Your googled renderings are having it say the exact opposite of what the Arabic states.



Here is another translation from here:
004.171YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Kindly show us the Arabic word(s) behind the highlighted English ones...

Good luck.



And another from here:
4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.


Kindly show us the Arabic word(s) behind the highlighted English ones...

Good luck.



I really don't think a verse could be any more clear.

In the Arabic...yes...



Jesus was a messenger.

Nope.

That is not what the Arabic says...




There is only one God; don't fall into this idea that he is three.

Christians don't believe that God is three, brother.

Even your googled renderings state, Father, Son, and Spirit.



God didn't have a son.

Yes, He did.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
:shrug: You are grasping at straws, Bowman. I have 3 translations-- one of which is actually from the "Authorized English Translation of the Koran". Forgive me if I don't trust or accept your one abberant form, or your personal translation of it.

You consistently miss the forest for staring at the leaves. That is the last I'll say.
 

Bowman

Active Member
:shrug: You are grasping at straws, Bowman. I have 3 translations-- one of which is actually from the "Authorized English Translation of the Koran". Forgive me if I don't trust or accept your one abberant form, or your personal translation of it.

Who authorized the 'authorized English translation of the Koran'.....?

Muhammad?
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
:shrug: You are grasping at straws, Bowman. I have 3 translations-- one of which is actually from the "Authorized English Translation of the Koran". Forgive me if I don't trust or accept your one abberant form, or your personal translation of it.

You consistently miss the forest for staring at the leaves. That is the last I'll say.

Favlun you may be interested in this link.

Regards
 
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