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How our attitudes differ.

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I have been on this site for four months now and have been making mental notes on the attitudes and beliefs I have found.

As a majority on the site are from America, I have found I have learnt most about how they differ from the UK and Europe…In legal social and religious matters.
so I thought I would jot down what I had noticed.


First thing to note is that Americans are far more polarised in their views than us.

The Conservative v Liberal position transcends nearly all their views.
The Idea of socialism, and anything approaching it, is quite abhorrent to a large majority.

On the social front, they have rarely mentioned the huge number of white and coloured poor in the states. Neither have they offered anything like a social policy to help solve it.

The, what I call the sickness (health) trap, is accepted rather than seen as a problem that could be eased. By this I mean how a person, of even middle income, can be totally devastated by serious injury or illness, quickly reducing their family to the ranks of the poor.

On the question of Law, crime, the use of firearms and the death penalty, again the general view is totally alien to that found in Europe.

UK. and European views are seen as almost communistic.(we would strongly deny this) Communism has a quite different meaning for us.

To the Americans even our conservatives are socialist inclined. They like the socialists and Liberals(party), agree that health care, social security and schooling, and to a lesser extent public broadcasting, museums, national concert halls, Higher and further education, help for the old. And numerous local government services should be fully or partly funded by the public purse.

In the UK or Europe it is not possible for even the poorest drop out not to have a full health care provision, equal to the best available and for as long as the need it.

Nowhere in the EU is the death penalty permitted both by law and treaty.

Nowhere in the EU are guns freely available.

There is now total free trade between the EU countries, free movement of labour and co-operative health care and social provision for each others citizens.

There is now a European court of Justice which is The EU’s highest court and can over-rule all domestic courts, and if need be. require changes in national law.

With out Covering the different emphasis in Religion and the way legislation now covers religious and sexual intolerance, It is easily seen that the European and American systems and cultures have never been so divergent than today.

This is no way a criticism of America But a detailing of some of the ways in which we not only differ but have a different concept of the rights and duties of both the people and the state.

This is not to say there are not different political views as to where the balance should lay between our rights and duties. But there is no serious doubt about the European consensus on these matters.


Do you think there might be a future problem in understanding between our two cultures?

Terry_________________________

Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land







 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Very Good points, Terry, and I think I would go along with most of them. I would, however like to reinforce the idea that no one is right or wrong - we are just 'different'; I would hate an American to think that we think we are better.


I hope you don't mind my making that clear Terry, because although I could see what you meant, I would have hated someone to get the wrong Idea.;)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Quite right Michel, and I did point out it is not a critism just an observation.
Though equally they might take the points I made about european attitudes as a critism of europeans.

Terry______________________


Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
It's cute how safe and secure everyone wants the world to be. I'd much rather have the world be wild, free, insecure, dangerous, exciting and uncivilized. :) But I'm an odd ball.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Maybe that's why many of our ancestors left Europe - for something different. I would hate to let them down by trying to become what they left behind. :)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
jonny said:
Maybe that's why many of our ancestors left Europe - for something different. I would hate to let them down by trying to become what they left behind. :)
Up to the end of the second world war our attitudes in most things were very much the same.
What has happened to change that?

Terry___________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
mr.guy said:
What about the Canadians?
I would put them some where mid altlantic. Perhaps a little nearer our side.
Don't know if they are going towards Europe or away from the USA
Please Tell.

Hope you can swim.


Terry______________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Terrywoodenpic said:
Up to the end of the second world war our attitudes in most things were very much the same.
What has happened to change that?

Well, America is experiencing an identity crisis as the moment. The world is becoming more and more ordered, more governed, more "civilized" and there are still a large number of Americans who don't want to go along with the plan. We'll resist as long as we can, even though we know we are doomed. Then there is also the fact that America is maybe the only country currently being controlled by Christian Conservatives.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
Up to the end of the second world war our attitudes in most things were very much the same. What has happened to change that?
I'm not sure - who changed? I wasn't alive back then.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Darkdale said:
It's cute how safe and secure everyone wants the world to be. I'd much rather have the world be wild, free, insecure, dangerous, exciting and uncivilized. :) But I'm an odd ball.
Not an odd ball, you just like the sound of a good fight; have you Irish ancestry, by any chance ?:D
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
michel said:
Not an odd ball, you just like the sound of a good fight; have you Irish ancestry, by any chance ?:D
I agree with Darkdale....and, Michel, I do have a Scots/Irish ancestry...which probably explains everything, eh?:biglaugh:


Seriously, Terry, I think some of the differences you see have to do with the fact that in the EU you have to find some way to compromise and get along because you're living on top of each other (so to speak). European countries, with the exception of the UK, butt up against each other and only a virtual line (and usually common sense) separates one country from another. The UK has only a small channel.

Americans (in this case, the US because I can't speak for the Canadians), have two large oceans on either side and little threat from the north and south and it's been this way for 200 years. Basically we have not had to learn to get along with anyone....and this may result in our demise since technology has closed those two vast oceans to nothing more than spitting distance.
 

Lintu

Active Member
I liked your comment about the health care trap. It's absolutely very true that a health emergency can bankrupt even a thriving, upper-middle class family. This is the thing: my opinion is that most Americans do not trust the government to use their money to better them more than they can themselves. Corruption, dissatisfaction with programs that "force" compassion (welfare), local income and property taxes that continually seem to go up with no discernable advantage. Me personally, I'd rather see much more government involvement (such as in Scandinavia) or far less than we have now. One way or the other, not this middle state, where we pretend that our taxes benefit us all, yet we fall so short in some measures.

Another issue is that Americans can be fiercely independent, often to the point of arrogance ("I got myself to where I am today, so why should I be penalized?") Many of us do not like to pay for the choices others have made. For instance, one reason I am against socialized health care *even though* I'd never have to worry about coming down with some horrible condition and bankrupting myself is that I'd have to pay for smokers and sedentary people who have caused health problems for themselves. The American view is that we make our own paths in life; we make our own choices, which in turn lead to benefits or consequences of our own actions. We are not favorable to paying for the choices of others. Now, I'm not saying that this is a good thing, but I'm saying it's a huge worldview to overcome to bring the US more in sync with Europe. It would be a transition period that the vast majority of the country would oppose.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Lintu said:
I liked your comment about the health care trap. It's absolutely very true that a health emergency can bankrupt even a thriving, upper-middle class family. This is the thing: my opinion is that most Americans do not trust the government to use their money to better them more than they can themselves. Corruption, dissatisfaction with programs that "force" compassion (welfare), local income and property taxes that continually seem to go up with no discernable advantage. vast.
Do Americans not believe in insurance? Do you not insure your cars and houses?
Our national health insurance scheme is paid for by every one and it looks after your health emergencies. No private scheme can be large enough to cove people for the life of a long term illness. a national scheme on the other hand can absorb that sort of risk.
What a nation scheme is less good at is instant non life threatening operations and quick fixes. If we want that convenience we take out additional private insurance.

There are many different ways of doing this in europe, some with private treatment paid out of state insurance, and some like the UK which is fully funded but usees some private services. Nothing is ideal but they all seem to work better for everyone than the American system.

Terry___________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
Do you think there might be a future problem in understanding between our two cultures?

Terry_________________________

Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land

Not meaning to be rude, but do you think the US (as a nation) will last this long? Comparisons to Rome have been being made for a long time, and not without cause.

A point of moral decline/decay has been reached and the old, as always, gives birth to the new.

Perhaps America will survive, albeit not as we currently know it?

Anyway I hope I'm around long enough to see what should be a great nation reborn.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
SnaleSpace said:
Not meaning to be rude, but do you think the US (as a nation) will last this long? Comparisons to Rome have been being made for a long time, and not without cause.

A point of moral decline/decay has been reached and the old, as always, gives birth to the new.

Perhaps America will survive, albeit not as we currently know it?

Anyway I hope I'm around long enough to see what should be a great nation reborn.
Unfortunately, you have a point.
A point of moral decline/decay has been reached and the old, as always, gives birth to the new.
I think it could be much worse than it is.............
Anyway, there's nothing to stop us from trying to break the historical repetition..........;)
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
michel said:
Unfortunately, you have a point.
I think it could be much worse than it is.............
Anyway, there's nothing to stop us from trying to break the historical repetition..........;)
Nothing new under the sun mate :p .

If you'll suffer me playing Nostradamus for a moment :rolleyes: :

At very worst, the people with a lot of money will move elsewhere, and their power will move with them. What little vacuum is created will be filled by China.

The world won't stop spinning, life goes on, <insert any other cliche you prefer here>.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
It would seem to me the USA and Europe must learn to work together and understand each other, if only, to be able to withstand the economic might of the comeing China-India empire. Of the western nations, Australia will certainly move into the China-India camp.
Canada and Newzealand may well have a foot in each camp.

Terry_____________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
 
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