"How Religion Is Killing Our Most Vulnerable Youth"

[Smoke]

Bishop Gene Robinson: How Religion Is Killing Our Most Vulnerable Youth

Just as many gay kids grow up in these conservative denominations as any other. They are told day in and day out that they are an abomination before God. Just consider the sheer numbers of LGBT kids growing up right now in Roman Catholic, Mormon, and other conservative religious households. The pain and self-loathing caused by such a distortion of God's will is undeniable and tragic, causing scars and indescribable self-alienation in these young victims.

You don't have to grow up in a religious household, though, to absorb these religious messages. Not long ago I had a conversation with six gay teens, not one of whom had ever had any formal religious training or influence. Every one of them knew the word "abomination," and every one of them thought that was what God thought of them. They couldn't have located the Book of Leviticus in the Bible if their lives depended on it yet they had absorbed this message from the antigay air they breathe every day.

<---snip--->

It is not enough for good people -- religious or otherwise -- to simply be feeling more positive toward gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people. Tolerance and a live-and-let-live attitude beats discrimination and abuse by a mile. But it's not enough. Tolerant people, especially tolerant religious people, need to get over their squeamishness about being vocal advocates and unapologetic supporters of LGBT people. It really is a matter of life and death, as we've seen.

I learned this in my dealing with racism. It's not enough to be tolerant of other races. I benefit from a racist society just by being white. I don't ever have to use the "n" word, treat any person of color with discourtesy, or even think ill of anyone. But as long as I am not working to dismantle the systemic racism that benefits me, a white man, at the expense of people of color, I am a racist. And my faith calls me to become an anti-racist -- pro-active, vocal, and committed.
​

 

[Just_me_Mike]

In the last 2 years how many kids have killed themselves for being bullied for being gay? Any numbers?

 

[Meow Mix]

I don't know about years, but in the last few months there have been several cases which spawned the "It Gets Better" movement...

My girlfriend follows it but I don't really; though I hope it's successful. Because it really does get better. High school is so awkward and we can think that it's our entire world... until we graduate and forget every single freaking thing that ever happened there as being so utterly irrelevant that it's laughable we ever put any stake in what others thought of us then at all.

 

[Smoke]

In the last 2 years how many kids have killed themselves for being bullied for being gay? Any numbers?

It's the kind of thing that's hard to nail down, but it's generally accepted that about a third of teen suicides are LGBT kids. A lot of the information I've found online cites studies that are twenty or thirty years old, though, and I'd like to see some more recent data.

In 2007, the last year for which final data are available, 184 kids between the ages of 5 and 14, and 4,140 people between the ages of 15 and 24 committed suicide in the U.S. (National Vital Statistics Report - Deaths: Final Data for 2007.) That's all suicides for those age groups, not just the gay kids.

Family reactions matter a lot. One 2009 study (here) found that "lesbian, gay, and bisexual young adults who reported higher levels of family rejection during adolescence were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide, 5.9 times more likely to report high levels of depression, 3.4 times more likely to use illegal drugs, and 3.4 times more likely to report having engaged in unprotected sexual intercourse compared with peers from families that reported no or low levels of family rejection."

 

[Meow Mix]

All I have to say is that the prospect of rejection made me think it was a good idea to date boys when I knew I wasn't attracted to boys -- all for the sake of wanting to be "normal."

Why did I waste my time? I just thought of girls anyway when I tried "the deed."

Don't get me wrong, I like and even love men... but Platonically.

 

[Nayana]

I agree with what you say. To end discrimination we need to be pro-active. Sure it's nice for people to chit-chat about it and feel "good" because they have a positive view on it. But action is what's needed at the moment. The string of suicides recently has shown that, although our society has a a bad habit of waiting until it hits rock bottom to even start trying, and even then, after the initial fervor has gone not many people continue efforts.

 

[EverChanging]

It's a breath of fresh air to hear this message from the religious, too. I deplore those who downgrade religious LGBT supporters just because they are religious.

I haven't read this study, but I'll go ahead and post it for what it's worth: Adolescent Sexual Orientation and Suicide Risk: Evidence From a National Study

I have learned from psychology courses, therapy, and literature distributed by therapists that LGBT are at increased risk of suicide. And if that LGBT person happens to have other difficulties: bi polar disorder, depression, a dysfunctional family, etc., the risk is increased yet again. I myself had many thoughts of suicide when I was completely torn apart by people who were supposed to love me shortly after being outed against my will, and there were other factors contributing, too.

I wholeheartedly agree with Bishop Gene Robinson: tolerance is not enough. We must make the world safe for everyone.

 

[Nayana]

Another thing to add. Positive attitudes are very easy to feign. People can just claim that they are progressive thinkers and can repeat what they have heard others say and pass it as their own and BAM, they seem to be progressive and supportive when they could just be doing this to appear open minded.

Tolerance does not breed acceptance. I tolerate plenty of things I hate. Even accepting isn't far enough. Real support is needed.

One thing that we can rely on is the sloth and disinterest to learning and changing ones views that most humans have :/...

 

[Wessexman]

The above sort of assumes the traditional Christian(and Islamic, Judaic, and Zoroastrian.) position is incorrect. The topic is complex but any so called "Bishop" that would throw out the universal proclamation of the key figures of his faith without defending it according to traditional doctrinal, theological, scriptural and metaphysical positions is dubious in my mind. But I do admit the topic is complex and certainly respect for homosexuals as persons is essential.

 

[Smoke]

The above sort of assumes the traditional Christian(and Islamic, Judaic, and Zoroastrian.) position is incorrect.

It is incorrect, and there's not the slightest doubt about it.

any so called "Bishop" that would throw out the universal proclamation of the key figures of his faith without defending it according to traditional doctrinal, theological, scriptural and metaphysical positions is dubious in my mind.

God forbid that a bishop of any Christian church should place fact and compassion above dogma and bigotry.

But I do admit the topic is complex and certainly respect for homosexuals as persons is essential.

And yet that's impossible for people who hold your religious views.

 

[Wessexman]

It is incorrect, and there's not the slightest doubt about it.

Can you show me how in terms of traditional Christian doctrine, scriptural interpretation theology and metaphysics?

And yet it's impossible for people who hold your religious views.

I aim to always treat them with decency. Indeed I tend to do this more so than many irreligious people I know and I currently live in Australia.

 

[Smoke]

[youtube]WM6xbW1DZyM[/youtube]
YouTube - Sarah Silverman's Message To America, On Gay Suicide

 

[Midnight Pete]

Smoke, you are becoming what you hate.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The above sort of assumes the traditional Christian(and Islamic, Judaic, and Zoroastrian.) position is incorrect. The topic is complex but any so called "Bishop" that would throw out the universal proclamation of the key figures of his faith without defending it according to traditional doctrinal, theological, scriptural and metaphysical positions is dubious in my mind. But I do admit the topic is complex and certainly respect for homosexuals as persons is essential.

Actually Zoroastrianism originally isn't anti-homosexual, and homosexuality wasn't called a sin until the Venidad, which many Zoroastrians now consider later and corruptions of Zoroaster's teachings. Most modern Zoroastrians accept homosexuality and I have even known a gay Zoroastrian.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Smoke, you are becoming what you hate.

Well, I think that's unjustified.

I don't see how there's anything wrong at all with asking people to put some consideration into their words and actions.

 

[Smoke]

Smoke, you are becoming what you hate.

And what makes you think you're in a position to know that?

 

[Midnight Pete]

And what makes you think you're in a position to know that?

Because I've seen it before.

 

[Smoke]

Because I've seen it before.

Ah, okay then. It's always charming to be psychoanalyzed by the ignorant.

 

[Smoke]

Arkansas school board official Clint McCance bashes 'queers' on Spirit Day (ChicagoPride.com : Pleasant Plains, Ark. News)

An Arkansas school board member took the opportunity on Spirit Day to bash "queers" and recommend that all gay people commit suicide.​

The article doesn't give McCance's actual statements, and they won't clear the censor in their entirety either. He wrote:

Seriously they want me to wear purple because five queers committed suicide. The only way I'm wearin' it for them is if they all commit suicide," McCance said, in one of the most ugly outbursts in recent memory. "I can't believe the people of this world have gotten this stupid. We are honoring the fact that they sinned and killed themselves because of their sin.
​

and

Being a *** doesn't give you the right to ruin the rest of our lives. If you get easily offended by being called a *** then don't tell anyone you are a ***. Keep that **** to yourself. It ****** me off though that we make a special purple *** day for them. I like that **** cant procreate. I also enjoy the fact that they often give each other aids and die.​

Of course we're all familiar with people like McCance. What's disturbing is that this idiot is on the school board.

 

[LuisDantas]

Can you show me how in terms of traditional Christian doctrine, scriptural interpretation theology and metaphysics?

With all due respect, Wessexman, tradition can not morally trump basic moral decency. To hold tradition over one's obvious moral duty is IMO a betrayal of one's own religion. If tradition must be defied to allow for respect and compassion, then so be it.