How should boys and girls be raised

[psychedelicsoul]

Text-book indoctrination.

Everyone in society has been indoctrinated into something or another, no matter how small.
It could be belief in Santa, the Easter bunny.
It could be "men are better than women" and vis versa.
It could be that guns are good, abortion is wrong, evil is everywhere.

It's difficult not to raise your child with indoctrination that you yourself are pulled into.
So, why bother? Just don't abuse the kid, and let it think for itself.

Well Santa and the Easter bunny objectively don't exist.

However, whether guns are good, abortion is wrong or evil is everywhere isn't really right or wrong. Even if it's a result of indoctrination. Doesn't the very existence of such ideals make them right in ones own context.

To me, it all depends on the individuals feelings. Let's say a woman is happy seeing herself as less than a man. Would her contentment then make it a good thing?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

They choose exactly what I've been prepping them to choose.

But if they come out happy then it's a good thing isn't? regardless of how they obtained that happiness

 

[Deathbydefault]

Well Santa and the Easter bunny objectively don't exist.

However, whether guns are good, abortion is wrong or evil is everywhere isn't really right or wrong. Even if it's a result of indoctrination. Doesn't the very existence of such ideals make them right in ones own context.

To me, it all depends on the individuals feelings. Let's say a woman is happy seeing herself as less than a man. Would her contentment then make it a good thing?

There is no such thing as "right" or "wrong".
If you like speaking within philosophy then you should know that.

My point is that you will indoctrinate your children into something, more than likely.
Even if you don't, society will, their friends will, their co-workers, teachers, perhaps even their bullies.
So trying to keep a perspective of 'Let it be how they want it to be.' is naive.

Just raise them how you see fit, don't abuse them (not saying that you do/will), and teach them philosophy.
Something being "right in ones own context" is subjective as well.
That context can be shifted or influenced, making it non-stable... non-reliable.

If you want to talk on a personal level, fine. I say you're correct.
A girl likes being dominated then so be it, whatever floats her boat.
I just hope that it's a fetish, not something she is told should be.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

But if they come out happy then it's a good thing isn't? regardless of how they obtained that happiness

Blue pill or the red pill

 

[ScottySatan]

As a Satanist with a son I think about this kind of thing a lot. I decided to teach him what the rules are first, then teach him how, when, and why to break them.

I'll try to have him master the traditional male gender role as well as I can (I'm no GI Joe myself) until he is old enough to make his own decision and tell me what it is. I'll drop him hints to let him know it's ok with me if he turns out different.

I'm not decided yet on how far to take the manliness thing on individual issues while he's too young to understand things. For example, he's 4 and wants to kiss me on the mouth just like he does mom and grandma. There's a whole spectrum of ways to handle that.

.....a tangent: I just told him it's ok to break his first rule and I'm excited. His preschool teacher considers "poopy" to be a bad word and tells the kid not to say it, but "Poopy" is our cat's name. I told him he can disobey his teacher as long as he's just talking about the cat, and as long as it's not going to have nasty consequences. We'll see what happens. Who the **** calls "poopy" a bad word anyway? They said it on Sesame Street. What the **** are you supposed to call it?

 

[ScottySatan]

Meh bugger gender roles. I come from a background where they are still defined strictly and I reject it. I am me, not who they want me to be.
My father raised me to be my own person. He never treated me like I was lesser or supposed to be meek because I am a girl. He taught me ethics, values and love. You can be feminine and be into guy things. You can be masculine and still be into "girly" things. I'm not feminine normally and I like guy things. I'm comfortable enough in my own skin to accept me as me. That's all you should worry about in regards of "gender roles" in your kids. Self esteem.

If I were a woman in certain oppressive societies, I'd say that too. I know some Pakistani women who are kind of idiots because they learned their whole lives to never think, just wait until the man fixes it. I'm just basing that on tasks I've seen them attempt. They don't talk to me. Don't think they're allowed to. Or maybe they can just see the blackness of my soul?
You know what, nevermind about the Pakistani women.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I spend my time and energy focusing on stability, consistency, communication/expression, exploration/creativity, emotional well-being, and cognitive development. I find I have little time or need for focusing on the myriad of unproductive and useless concepts that other people waste a lot of time on. I also figure my daughter will have a leg up on most other kids because of this. Certainly seems to be the case so far.

 

[SomeRandom]

If I were a woman in certain oppressive societies, I'd say that too. I know some Pakistani women who are kind of idiots because they learned their whole lives to never think, just wait until the man fixes it. I'm just basing that on tasks I've seen them attempt. They don't talk to me. Don't think they're allowed to. Or maybe they can just see the blackness of my soul?
You know what, nevermind about the Pakistani women.

Well I'm Indian soooo I wouldn't know about that. Though I know the stereotypical view of Pakistanis is that they're Muslim. Make of that what you will.

I know as an Indian woman I'm expected to be highly educated, actually. So don't be too quick to judge "oppressive" societies. They're not as black and white as they seem.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Define "accept"... I think I could accept him looking like Jeffree Star, as long as he doesn't sound like him.

If I had a gay son like this I'd be pretty accepting

I think that says more about you than anything else...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well I'm Indian soooo I wouldn't know about that. Though I know the stereotypical view of Pakistanis is that they're Muslim. Make of that what you will.

I know as an Indian woman I'm expected to be highly educated, actually. So don't be too quick to judge "oppressive" societies. They're not as black and white as they seem.

Yeah, but some are. I lived in Papua New Guinea...it wasn't pretty.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

I think that says more about you than anything else...

It's my opinion, which reflects the unbridled fact that Judas Priest is awesome.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah, but some are. I lived in Papua New Guinea...it wasn't pretty.

Oh my mum's workmate is a PNG native. If any society wanted to keep that woman down and out, I wish them good luck.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Oh my mum's workmate is a PNG native. If any society wanted to keep that woman down and out, I wish them good luck.

*laughs*

Good on her. It was perhaps different in the city, I was out in the sticks, really remote, where polygamy was still common, and wife beating was waaay too common.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-sasha-galbraith/papua-new-guinea-women_b_895638.html?ir=Australia

 

[Oldsoul]

If I had a son .

Any parent can tell you..
Your detailed vision of what parenthood should or shouldn't be might change drastically when you become an actual parent..

You can set the direction and pace for your child..HOPING he or she will follow..

I can't really empathize with your opening rant. .

You're not a parent. .

 

[SomeRandom]

*laughs*

Good on her. It was perhaps different in the city, I was out in the sticks, really remote, where polygamy was still common, and wife beating was waaay too common.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-sasha-galbraith/papua-new-guinea-women_b_895638.html?ir=Australia

Don't know. She seems a little err "countrified." Then again it's sort of the same in Fiji but my mum, a locally born Fijian woman, never once experienced anything like that.
But really you can say such things of even some remote regions of Western Countries.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Don't know. She seems a little err "countrified." Then again it's sort of the same in Fiji but my mum, a locally born Fijian woman, never once experienced anything like that.
But really you can say such things of even some remote regions of Western Countries.

No. I know what you mean, but there is a difference. Did you read the article I linked to?
One thing I would say about PNG is that there are 800+ languages and a lot of different groupings. Culturally, these can be quite distinct. Highlanders, for example, are much different to Sepiks.

But the overall level of violence and misogyny are rated amongst the very highest in the world. Estimates include 70% women being sexually assaulted, hundreds (literally) of women being burned as witches, with gangs of up to 500 roaming the land hunting them.

I've been to Fiji, and I live in Australia. Please trust me when I say PNG is much, much worse.

 

[SomeRandom]

No. I know what you mean, but there is a difference. Did you read the article I linked to?
One thing I would say about PNG is that there are 800+ languages and a lot of different groupings. Culturally, these can be quite distinct. Highlanders, for example, are much different to Sepiks.

But the overall level of violence and misogyny are rated amongst the very highest in the world. Estimates include 70% women being sexually assaulted, hundreds (literally) of women being burned as witches, with gangs of up to 500 roaming the land hunting them.

I've been to Fiji, and I live in Australia. Please trust me when I say PNG is much, much worse.

I don't know. I live in Australia, I've been going to Fiji since I was a baby.
I'm not one to trust the Huffington Post. It's too....... Well it's burned me before shall we say. Especially in regards to anything to do with "misogyny."
But I never said that it's better or worse just that it exists in some form or another most places.

 

[Quagmire]

I think boys and girls should be raised just like everybody else.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't know. I live in Australia, I've been going to Fiji since I was a baby.
I'm not one to trust the Huffington Post. It's too....... Well it's burned me before shall we say. Especially in regards to anything to do with "misogyny."
But I never said that it's better or worse just that it exists in some form or another most places.

Okay. Well, I'll drop it. But I lived there and saw enough violence of all kinds to last me a lifetime.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't have kids nor do I plan to have them.

But if I did have them, I'd probably just raise them to be people. Hopefully compassionate and wise people.