How should society deal with Neo-Nazis?

[The Kilted Heathen]

Can you find anything actually linking it to the party? I could not.

In post #10 I stated that it was their ideologies that lead to the Dallas shooting,

Not altright but just far right general:

The topic here is "What should be done about neo-nazis" not anti-government extremism in general. If it's just words, then that's not a lot - to me - to take action against. Far better to target the groups torturing people ("pray the gay away" camps), blowing up clinics, and burning cities down in protest.

 

[VioletVortex]

I'd like to point out that every political party, from far left to far right, anarchist to fascist, and so on and so forth, has a terrorist faction. People seem to blame right wingers for terrorism more so than left wingers. Islamic terrorism is in the spotlight, with Neo-Nazi actions not too far behind. However, left wingers can also be radical terrorists.

Stop worrying about the views espoused by these terrorists, and look at their murderous or destructive actions alone, and let them speak for themselves.

As a Nationalist, I am still opposed to most of what is labeled Neo-Nazi terrorism.

 

[VioletVortex]

The moral difference is that Hitler was marginalizing people based on fake conspiracy which he targeted for it's race.

Do you honestly not see a moral difference in marginalizing Nazis and marginalizing recognized ethnic groups?

Eugenics was a worldwide fad during the 1930s. America was doing the same with feeble minded people, "autistic" people, Italians and Japanese citizens, and prior to the war, Jews. WWII was a conflict between Germany and the international banking system.

 

[VioletVortex]

You didn't answer my question.

It was a conflict between Nazi's and international banking, but they also grouped in the jewish people because bankers were jewish.
That's sort of anti-semetic.

Jewish foreigners in Europe were often bankers and store owners, and very capitalistic. Hitler did not take issue with the common Jew, in fact, he had Jewish officers in his military, some with quite high ranks. He did, however, arrest most Jewish bankers, and impose higher taxes on Jews.

Argue that these things weren't good for Germany.

 

[leibowde84]

What specific actions should society take in response to groups like this?

In the U.S., when Neo-Nazis march in Jewish communities, we defend their right to do so (and it's expensive to provide that defense).

Should we decry them? Should we marginalize them? What would that look like?

Taking away their constitutional rights is not an option. That is for certain. It would have horrible consequences down the road.

But, when it comes to ordinary citizens, we should ridicule them. I think we actually have a responsibility to do so. Make them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome wherever you see them. Use your own rights to make them feel ignorant, ashamed, etc.

 

[VioletVortex]

Are you a holocaust denier?

Parts of the holocaust seem a bit far fetched. I'm also opposed to calling it the "holocaust" while what the allies did went mostly unnamed. What Stalin did was far worse.

I can't really answer your question concisely, I think that's up to you to decide. I believe what I believe, and I prefer not to use labels. If you'd like to label me as a holocaust denier, a Neo-Nazi, or an *******, that's your prerogative.

 

[VioletVortex]

So... whataboutism?

Doesn't change anything about what happened.

One can still question what happened. Who wrote the records of it?

 

[psychoslice]

They can believe what they want to believe, just as you and me.

 

[Stevicus]

What specific actions should society take in response to groups like this?

In the U.S., when Neo-Nazis march in Jewish communities, we defend their right to do so (and it's expensive to provide that defense).

Should we decry them? Should we marginalize them? What would that look like?

Well, we do have Freedom of Speech in this country, and sometimes it's expensive to enforce that law. I think that such groups are already heavily marginalized in America, and there is extremely little popular support for any of these groups.

 

[icehorse]

Well, we do have Freedom of Speech in this country, and sometimes it's expensive to enforce that law. I think that such groups are already heavily marginalized in America, and there is extremely little popular support for any of these groups.

So what does "marginalization" look like? How does one go about marginalizing? (This is a sincere question, I hear the word used a lot, and I'm not sure what examples are.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I forgot to add to my first post that I'm not opposed to using violence against neo-Nazis and suchlike, especially if they're starting to gain power. At that point, all means necessary are required to put them back in their place. But as long as they remain marginalized, I don't think that's necessary.

 

[Augustus]

What should society have done about Nazis in the early 1930s?

Taking away their constitutional rights is not an option. That is for certain. It would have horrible consequences down the road.

Allowing people to hide behind rights they do not accept others having will have horrible consequences down the road. This is the bigger concern. Tolerating the intolerant leads to the end of tolerance for all.

You should forfeit your claim to any rights you advocate taking away from others. There is nothing unethical or morally objectionable about reciprocity, no double standards allowed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Allowing people to hide behind rights they do not accept others having will have horrible consequences down the road. This is the bigger concern. Tolerating the intolerant leads to the end of tolerance for all.

You should forfeit your claim to any rights you advocate taking away from others. There is nothing unethical or morally objectionable about reciprocity, no double standards allowed.

^This, 100%. I'm not opposed to banning such groups, either.

 

[columbus]

So what does "marginalization" look like? How does one go about marginalizing? (This is a sincere question, I hear the word used a lot, and I'm not sure what examples are.)

It is a complicated and messy word, largely in the eye of the beholder.
But serious Nazis used to be common and powerful in the USA. Henry Ford was one. Hitler had a framed portrait of Ford in his office. Charles Lindberg was another. The Bush family, of presidential fame, got rich doing business with the Third Riech. Anti-Jewish, pro-business, anti-communist, pro-Social Darwinism, etc. was very common in the USA in the 20s and 30s. Nazism to put a label on it.

Today Nazis generally look like pathetic losers. Living in their parent's basement, proud of nothing about themselves except their "heritage". Blaming their own failures on lesser races and mudbloods. Squealing like stuck pigs on the internet, while the rest of the country gets on with their lives. Having a march with more protesters than participants is considered some sort of victory.

That's what "marginalized" looks like.
They have the right to be stupid and ugly and say whatever they want. Because denying them such is a win for evil tendencies people have. So better people than they are must support their rights to Free Speech and then laugh and point when they exercise those rights.
Tom

 

[icehorse]

That's what "marginalized" looks like.

Agreed - but by what means did that result come about?

 

[Augustus]

So better people than they are must support their rights to Free Speech and then laugh and point when they exercise those rights.

A few months ago people were pointing and laughing at Trump and now he's the POTUS. (I'm not comparing Trump to Nazis, just noting people's complacency and lack of judgement)

Hitler was a total loser, living off an inheritance until it ran out, failing at everything, a bit of a joke to many. Within a few years he became the Fuhrer.

Anything that has happened before can happen again, we are still just as stupid as we have always been.

 

[columbus]

A few months ago people were pointing and laughing at Trump and now he's the POTUS. (I'm not comparing Trump to Nazis, just noting people's complacency and lack of judgement)

You may not have meant to, but you did an excellent job of it.

Tom

 

[columbus]

Anything that has happened before can happen again, we are still just as stupid as we have always been.

True. Especially for those who don't know history.

Evidence enough for me that humans don't have an Intelligent Designer.

Tom

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What specific actions should society take in response to groups like this?

None.

Criminal acts should be prosecuted according to the law, and ideas should battle it out in the realm of public discourse. Anything else is likely counterproductive, in addition to likely being morally questionable and hypocritical.

 

[columbus]

I forgot to add to my first post that I'm not opposed to using violence against neo-Nazis and suchlike, especially if they're starting to gain power. At that point, all means necessary are required to put them back in their place. But as long as they remain marginalized, I don't think that's necessary.

You are advocating the silencing and banning of people who have characteristics and opinions that are unpopular?
With violence if it's necessary?

Have you really thought that through? Are you sure you trust your society and government with that kind of power?

I don't. Not even close.
Tom