how should we react to mockery ?

[maro]

YmirGF , please refrain from the debate here

 

[301ouncer]

What about Pop Benedect's statements about Islam? And what do you think of Dr Al Qaradawi's response?


I think there should be an official response especially from those who accepted his visit to their countries before apologizing to Muslims...

As for Bush, he was not in need for such provokable statement as long as he is able to shed the blood of Muslims, and to make everyone thinks that a Muslim means a terrorist. That's really enough!


So I've to accept humiliation because it is something makes them feel better?! Don't you think it would be weakness from us?


Yeah, they are free to practice their Kuffr, but they are not free when they touch my identity...Do you think it is fair to not be allowed to defend it?


So you agree that there should be a "response" from Muslims such as boycotting?....I see ignoring has two meaning: whether we are not able to give them a proper response, or we are not even concerned with what they did....And I don't think that's what you mean here....So would you tell me what do you mean by "ignoring"?


In my opinion ignoring is not a right approach, Maro...Not all Muslims are aware of what's going on in the first place....They should be aware of the reality. Why don't we use the attacks on Islam in a correct framework by educating Muslims about their religion and use that love to the prophet peace be upon him in a correct way by encouraging them to adhere more to his Sunnah.
Why don't we use that to know how positive we are? how much we love this religion?



Jazaki Allah kul khayr for quoting these wonderful verses dear Maro, that's the reason I said that I don't accept death threats, or violence......

You know, Maro we should be patient on their kuffr but we should not turn the other cheek!!

I pray to Allah swt to give woman like yourself the more honour and Izza to bear childeren that they will be pleased with him and he is pleased with them. Honour and Izza and not choclate cakes.

I pray to Allah swt to give you childeren the likes of Omar, Khattab, bin alwaleed, hamza and salahdin rathiuallahi alihm ajmeen.

And not the top 10 middleast top of the pops that all they worry about is how good or fake they look and their image..

 

[Abu Rashid]

The pope is an official character who represents many christians ,not only himself and i agree he should be banned from coming to our countires untill he Clearly apologizes

Not just apologise, but he MUST publicly admit that his statements were utter falsehood, and that the pope he quoted was a war-mongering barbarian, who had called several crusades against the Muslims. How dare he quote a crusade-calling pope, who was claiming Muhammad (pbuh) was violent! The irony and hypocrisy of it!

 

[Peace]

Thank you maro for this thread. Jazaki Allah khayran!
Whatever the mockers did and are and will be doing, they will never extinguish the light of Allah.

Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). (Quran: 9:32-33)

 

[Sajdah]

As i said ,sajdah...i see an official response necessary only when the insult is coming from an official character..and that's why i find Dr. Qaradawi's response to be appropriate

Another thing is that the pope made a coherent speech with several claims about Islam..which is something that can be reponded to with another speech refuting his claims..and this is what i believe in...a word refutes another..an article refutes another...a book refutes another...etc.

The same thing can be said about ahmad deedat 's response to many lies about islam..and also about the islamic websites refuting the misconceptions and propaganda

Exactly, and that raises a question...Why the whole Ummah rised up for the Danish Cartoons, although the west almost everyday/week/month publishes a book full of lies and slanders about Islam?! Because as you said a book refutes a book, a thought should be met with thought....... But when you find something very trashy, rude, presented to you as a "free speech", and many people were fooled by this lie, shouldn't we react at least to let them understand or differentiate between trash and free speech?!

but what if the pope has drawn a cartoon of the prophet (pbuh) ?....personally ,i believe that no muslim should be lead down to the level of replying to him...not to mention an eminent scholar like al qaradawi.....and that ignoring is the best strategy here

Of course we shouldn't degrade ourselves by using their same tool as a response, as for the ignoring part, for someone to ignore something, one should know what happened in the first place, then decides whether to ignore it or not, do you think that there are many who even know anything about South Park, or even care to know? That's the problem Maro, people here are very lazy and negative to do anything...I think many would support the ignoring idea, not because they have a thought regarding it, but merely because they want to do nothing, they don't want to bear any responsibility...

So what do you suggest ,sajdah ? How are we going to impose our respect on them ?
personally , i think the only way is to become powerful and thus worthy of respect...to let the world see what Islam really is when properly understood and practiced....and i see no other short term golden solution

We can't force them to show respect while we are dependant almost entirely on their technology..can we ?

We can when individuals, and officials cooperate, and unite their efforts all together, we will be able to do that....And yes, we depend on their technology, but they have several interests with our countries, so I don't think that they are giving us anything as a charity...They will be affected too!

By ignoring , i don't mean zero response..i only mean we should calm down a bit and think about the real effective response

We don't disagree then, it was just a misunderstanding from my side

we might boycott mcdonald and coca cola as a symbolic protest...but how are we going to boycott their weapons untill we manufacture our own ?
and what if the mocking came from a country like china or south korea ?...boycotting will almost be impossible then

Those are very important points, I thought of them too. And I don't really know what could be done!!!

I am not by any means degarading the 'boycotting'....i am just saying that it's the first step on a very very long road...the step that usually make muslims feel satified about themselves....together with the protests and the heated enthusiastic mottos.....WITH NO REAL ACTIONS

Yeah, that's correct, but even the protests and boycotting can be used correctly when Muslims understand their roles, and what they ae doing is just a step on the road. It would be good if one Muslim understood that thing by a protest of by boycotting.

I am not with protesting in the streets because everytime an unknown X depicits the prophet (pbuh) ,he will be automatically bringing over a billion muslims to the streets....that will be fun.....they can bring us to the streets once in a week ,then

Unfortunately, this doesn't always happen, Muslims are too lazy to prtotest in the streets every time one insults them. They don't even protest to ask for their rights, because they are afraid of humiliation, and those who are afraid of being humiliated, will always live in humiliation!

And then the same billion muslims who protested one day..will forget the whole thing the next day...and continue with the routine of their lives that probably include all types of sins...the only difference is that they now feel satisfied about themselves for protesting yesterday.....and that the unknown author/newspaper that mocked islam has become famous !!!!

Correct, that what happened, but I can not say that every single Muslim who protested one day hadn't change his/her life afterwards....I personaly know someone who was going to do something very shameful, and one of those protests made him stop and rethink of his way of life..If this is the only person we gained among the billion who protested, then it is good!

you know what ?...what offends me the most in the south park incident is the muslims' response and not the mockery of the non muslims ?....because i believe our identity is affected only by our own words and actions as i said before

Because they focused on what a very few number of Muslims did, neglecting the fact that what they did was horrible too, since they want to make insults as rights and put it under the "Free Speech" label...But death threats can not be put under any justified label, so people would react to the latter and forget the cause, and the original problem...That's what they want!

I didn't expect anything different from a non muslim ....they probably don't know who is Muhammad (PBUH)....but i expected a mature islamic response from muslims and i was disappointed

You know that those people could easily send such threats to Muslims who don't accept their ideology too, let alone sending them to a mocker!
And I believe that "ignoring" the matter from the whole Ummah would give them a chance to think that they are the protectors and the only defenders of Islam, and Media would highlight their role, and make it look as if they are the representatives of Islam, so no we shouldn't give them such chance!

The same thing can be said about the sudanese authority that expelled an english teacher out for calling a teddy bear 'Muhamad "...inspite that she didn't mean any harm or insult and that she apologized......

No, those are two different cases....But the common thing here is the silly response!!

The same thing applies to those who raise immature mottos in the streets like "behead those who insult islam " and " the real holocaust is coming "...etc.

Don't you agree with me that many of us have become so vulnerable ,so sensitive...to the degree of having no rational control over our responses ?

Yeah, because we are fighting in many fronts, if you just give a quick look at the Muslim nation, you will not find any stable country....Including Muslim communities in western countries....

I agree..we shouldn't turn the other cheek ..but we still need to be patient and tolerant....to be honest ,i agree with the tolerant approach of peacewise and i find it to be more islamic than what most of us do....but i also know that the angry attitude among muslims is preventing them from practicing such tolerance right now...and thus i believe that ignoring is best available startegy to deal with childish provocations right now

Tolerance is a good approach, but we should know when, and how to use it.. because misusing it would make it looks as if we surrendered....

 

[Sajdah]

Jazak Allah kul kharyr for the Dua' . May Allah bless you!

Honour and Izza and not choclate cakes.

This reminds me of what people say in protests, but you know I didn't start the protest yet
But what do you mean by "chocolate cakes"?

We should care about the image of Islam, and how it is presented to others, we should be certain that the reality of Islam reaches to people, and this doesn't contradict, by no means, with our rights to react in a proper, and Islamic way........

 

[301ouncer]

Yeah, because we are fighting in many fronts, if you just give a quick look at the Muslim nation, you will not find any stable country....Including Muslim communities in western countries....

You see sister sajdah with all the brain washing done on 2010 models they think they are humilated minority and are not part of the greater UMMAH. They believe they are bound to ink laid borders.

Tolerance is a good approach, but we should know when, and how to use it.. because misusing it would make it looks as if we surrendered....

Well said mashallah. yes sorry to break it to you but currently we have an on going trend they are called muslims and mustaslimeen at the same time.

 

[maro]

But when you find something very trashy, rude, presented to you as a "free speech", and many people were fooled by this lie, shouldn't we react at least to let them understand or differentiate between trash and free speech?!

I don't think they understood or differentiated between anything ,sajdah
The danish cartoons were re published soon after the protests ,the boycotting..and so...and we never got an official apology from the Denemark ,as far as i know

on the contrary , what happened is that they adhered more to their idea of "free speech "...and guess what ?...when the cartoons were re published....there were no protests in the streests this time !!

The only positive response ,IMO , was amr khaled 's conference of co-existance.....the one for which many narrow minded people criticized him because they supposed he was not keeping our dignity

I believe our dignity is not that fragile to be affected by a bunch of impolite idiots representing nothing but their lack of decency....What i respect about amr khaled is that the "dignity argument " didn't stop him from practicing the Main task a muslim is supposed to care about..al dawah....instead ,he made use of the incident to let them know who is Muhammad....He spoke with them.....that was the only positive outcome ,imo

when i read the prophet's biography (pbuh) , i can't see where he was so much concerned about "our dignity "....instead ,he was more concerned about how to deliver the message properly to the other camp...that propely not only mocked the prophet and his message...but tortured his companions...stole their money... and fought against them by all means possible....and yet , those are the same people who later carried the message of islam...how come ?.....becuase the prophet (pbuh) was concerned about their guidance...not about slapping them back for touching his dignity and the dignity of muslims..the only exception i can remember is when a jew raised the dress of one muslim woman...and this is because that was a physical abuse against the chasity of a muslimah...and considering the status of women in islam...i can see how logic and understandable is this

Why did we give up on the danish people ? isn't it possible that one day they will carry the message of islam better than we do ?

And I believe that "ignoring" the matter from the whole Ummah would give them a chance to think that they are the protectors and the only defenders of Islam, and Media would highlight their role, and make it look as if they are the representatives of Islam, so no we shouldn't give them such chance!

Very good point ,jazaki Allah khairan
and that's why i urge muslims to speak up against other muslims....the very tiny minority that are usually highlighted by the media as you say....

although i find the media approach in highlighting the response of some radicals operating an unkown website as muslims' reaction to be unfair..and not even professional....but i guess it's our destiny to deal with biased media

Yeah, because we are fighting in many fronts, if you just give a quick look at the Muslim nation, you will not find any stable country....Including Muslim communities in western countries....

That's an explanation ,but not an excuse....Mulslims have had their battles all through history...islam was about to be eradicated during the time of the mongols....and yet , the same mongols converted later to islam...

I know that there has been radicals all through history..but the general prevalent attitude of muslims was always more tolerant and that's why they were able to turn their enemies into their camp

Tolerance is a good approach, but we should know when, and how to use it.. because misusing it would make it looks as if we surrendered....

I agree...as i always say 'the virtue is something moderate between two extremes "....but considering that we are closer to one extreme right now...i am not very worried that we might correct our deviation to the degree that we hit the other extreme

 

[maro]

I also find the reaction of dutch muslims to the film 'fitna' to be great...An example to learn from and follow...may allah bless them

Muslim groups have appealed for calm and mosques plan to open their doors to the public on Friday to defuse tension.

Fouad Sidali, a leading member of the Muslim community in Holland, called for moderate responses. "We Muslims in the Netherlands are opposed to any forms of violence and aggression," Sidali said. "We are Dutch; we love our country and abide by the constitution."​

Dutch Muslims React with Restraint to MP's Controversial Film | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 28.03.2008

The proposed screening of an anti-Qur’an film by a right-wing Dutch MP has led Esam Mudeer of Al-Bayenah Bookstore to team up with a dawah organization set up by the late Ahmed Deedat to distribute in Holland 50,000 copies of “Jezus in de Islam en de Koran” — a Dutch translation of Deedat’s book “Christ in Islam and in the Qur’an.”

“We’re sending books not bombs to the Netherlands… This is an opportunity for dialogue, an opportunity for the Netherlands to come to know the Qur’an and its message,” said Mudeer, adding that the books will be distributed tomorrow.​

The call for dialogue follows the proposed screening of a 10-minute provocative anti-Qur’an film entitled “Fitna” (Arabic for strife) by Dutch MP Geert Wilders. Dutch television channels have declined to show the film, which also drew protests from ordinary Dutch people in the streets of Amsterdam last week.​

Mudeer, who is a Saudi writer and a member of several charities and dawah organizations, was a student of Deedat for 18 years. He told Arab News that the book is a “thank you” message to ordinary Dutch people who have protested against Wilders.​

“We came to learn that we have so many Dutch friends. One thousand people demonstrated in the streets of the Netherlands… even the Jewish mayor of Amsterdam participated,” he said.​

The response to the film is in stark contrast to the negative publicity of protests against Danish cartoons caricaturing Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) last year. “We’ve tried boycotting, we’ve tried anger, we’ve tried protesting, and we’ve tried going to court…this is an opportunity for ordinary Muslims to talk to ordinary Dutch and Danish people,” said Mudeer, who takes his inspiration from the way Deedat dealt with controversy surrounding Salman Rushdie’s book “The Satanic Verses.”​

“He was the only person I knew who had read Rusdhie’s book from cover to cover and it wasn’t an easy job for him,” he said, adding that Deedat spoke of how “The Satanic Verses” was not only offensive to Muslims but also to Queen Elizabeth of Britain, white women and black people.​

“Ahmed Deedat didn’t issue a fatwa against Salman Rushdie. He didn’t want to kill him…he told the Muslim world that if Rushdie has hurt your feelings then don’t show those who hate you that you’re hurt as that would give them more pleasure and make them return,” he said.​

“We need to relax and this is an opportunity for dawah, we’re not forcing anyone to become Muslim… Let’s be in the business of making friends, not enemies,” he added.​

Commenting on the way Dutch Muslims have reacted to Wilders’ film, Mudeer said, “Dutch Muslims gathered together and — unlike the time with the Danish cartoons — they didn’t get angry or frustrated. They responded wisely, not in a violent way.”​

Mudeer said Wilders wants to show Islam as a violent religion and that he continues delaying the screening of his film to raise emotions. “He is waiting for a bomb to go off somewhere, or for someone to do something dramatic and that’s why he keeps delaying it,” he said.​

He added that Wilders is concerned at the spread of Islam in the Netherlands and Europe. “Even the Pope himself declared his concern in July 2007 of what he called the Islamization of Europe. Maybe they have genuine fears; we need to talk to them. What is it that you’re scared of about?” he said, adding that all publicity is good and that the controversy has probably caused an increase in sales of copies of the Qur’an.​

Speaking about the position of Jesus and Mary in Islam, Mudeer said Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus Christ and his mother. He added that Mary is mentioned 34 times in the Qur’an and that a chapter — Surah Maryam — is also named after her in her honor.​

“Wilders said he wants to burn the Qur’an. If you call yourself a Christian, then is this a book you want to burn — the only book outside Christianity that honors Jesus and his mother? You’re going to burn a book that mentions his name 25 times?” he said.​

Mudeer also asked Muslims to do some introspection. “Muslims didn’t thank Denmark for its support for Palestine. When Ariel Sharon invaded Jenin in 2002 Denmark was the only country in the world… that sent 20 ambulances for the Palestinians, why didn’t we thank them why didn’t we march on the streets and thank them,” he added.​

Speaking about how Muslims should react, Mudeer said, “Muslims need to ask themselves, do you read the Qur’an for 10 minutes after Fajar everyday? Can we do that? That’s the best defense? Muslims of today must stop begging for respect. They must be worthy of respect and they must learn how to command respect like Muhammad (peace be upon him) did. When that happens Islam will be respected without us asking for it,” he said, adding, “The guy is after fitna, he called the movie fitna, he wants fitna

‘Books Not Bombs’ « بيت ديدات للدعوة

 

[maro]

I agree with the boycotting of course..i wouldn't feel comfortable buying the goods of a bunch of barkig dogs ,myself

I find this to be an unfair generalization..something that i occasionally slip into while talking

 

[Sajdah]

on the contrary , what happened is that they adhered more to their idea of "free speech "...and guess what ?...when the cartoons were re published....there were no protests in the streests this time !!

That was very normal not to see any protests, the abnormal thing IMO was the great reaction of the first time, really I thought that Muslims finally waked up, and realized their responsibilities, but as Dr Yusuf Al Qaradawi said, our problem is that we forget so quickly.

The only positive response ,IMO , was amr khaled 's conference of co-existance.....the one for which many narrow minded people criticized him because they supposed he was not keeping our dignity

I think we agree on boycotting, and dialogue, so do you just reject protests?
Do you think that non violent protests contradict with dialogue? I personally think that we can do the three things (dialogue, boycotting, protesting) all together...

.......he made use of the incident to let them know who is Muhammad....

That's what I'm talking about, why don't we make use of such attacks to let Muslims be more positive, more active to do something for their religion?

when i read the prophet's biography (pbuh) , i can't see where he was so much concerned about "our dignity "....instead ,he was more concerned about how to deliver the message properly to the other camp...that propely not only mocked the prophet and his message...but tortured his companions...stole their money... and fought against them by all means possible....and yet , those are the same people who later carried the message of islam...how come ?.....becuase the prophet (pbuh) was concerned about their guidance...not about slapping them back for touching his dignity and the dignity of muslims..the only exception i can remember is when a jew raised the dress of one muslim woman...and this is because that was a physical abuse against the chasity of a muslimah...and considering the status of women in islam...i can see how logic and understandable is this

Our history is full of stories shows the importance of dignity and honor, also I don't think that we need to achieve revenge here, but rather to correct something wrong which is believed to be "right"

Why did we give up on the danish people ? isn't it possible that one day they will carry the message of islam better than we do ?

Of course it is very possible......

That's an explanation ,but not an excuse....Mulslims have had their battles all through history...islam was about to be eradicated during the time of the mongols....and yet , the same mongols converted later to islam...

I know that there has been radicals all through history..but the general prevalent attitude of muslims was always more tolerant and that's why they were able to turn their enemies into their camp

I did not get that part, Maro.... what I know is that Muslims were severely humiliated at that time, so I don't think that the acceptance of humiliation made them convert to Islam....It is Islam which made them convert not Muslims....

I agree...as i always say 'the virtue is something moderate between two extremes "....but considering that we are closer to one extreme right now...i am not very worried that we might correct our deviation to the degree that we hit the other extreme

LOL,
Then we should always ask Allah swt to guide us to His right path

 

[Sajdah]

Thanks dear sister Maro for the article,

“We’ve tried boycotting, we’ve tried anger, we’ve tried protesting, and we’ve tried going to court…this is an opportunity for ordinary Muslims to talk to ordinary Dutch and Danish people,”

I think we should knock all doors..... I don't understand why everyone thinks that his\her way is the only right reaction, and the best solution, although we can all be doing the right thing, but in different ways depends on what anyone can offer, or do ( of course if those ways are not against Islam)....I think the Danish people would not have listened to any dialogue if there were no boycotting, or protesting before that step. So IMO all ways complete each other......

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

I agree that they are barking dogs, and you cannot stone each dog barks at you...because if you did it would make stones more valuable than gold!
But the problem is that they don't have free speech, if one of them started to mock at the Holocaust for instance, he would be jailed immediatley.

Hey, check this vid to make sure that what you say is for real

Islamaphobia vs. Antisemitism in Western Media , crazy and so obvious contradiction of a french reporter , once teaching a muslim how freespeech is a part of the french identity, and on another scene yalling at a comedian who mocked the holocaust and teachign him how free speech must have limits , just crazy I tell you.

As for the original post, then I heard a very dear sheykh to me ,once talking about these protests and how people go yall in the street and then come back home exhausted while thinking:"Alhamdulillah, I did someth for my deen"

He said , in reality the feeling of anger for the deen is very very beneficial. One must keep the anger feelings inside and think rationnally on how to make it productive.
I.e these feelings give a boost of energy to people, it is an awakening and give them the power to produce, to learn the deen , to defend it and to practice it better and become an example.. So why waste them at yalling in the streets? Keep this energy inside and use it productively and Inshallah the results will be great..

Honestly, this piece of advice touched me and taught me a lot.. Alhamdulilllah, and thanks to it Ive been able to produce instead of spending the day regretting the beuatiful days of the Islamic empire

And I hope it helps others to see clearly Inshallah.
One more thing, he also added that the fact that everyone is interested in Islam and every government is trying its best to keep people from converting to Islam by spreading propagandas and declaring war on muslims in the name of freeing the population from extremism, is the best sign to the greatness of this deen, its the same when you feel that shaytan is making you lazy on prayer or reading Quran , thats when you know how its hard for him to see you making a step forward to paradise while he's going to hell



PS/ I just realised that I only read the first page of the thread, so sorry if this has been already said

Barakallahu feekum , and innallaha ma'a ssabirine (Allah is with the patients) and 'ala inna nasrallahi qarib (verily, the victory is near) (DISCLAIMER:Im translating by myself )

 

[Sahar]

Do we have many options in our current condition?! Either ignoring or riots and death threats, what else?

In better conditions, I agree with Abu Rashid there, the response mainly should come from governments in the form of diplomatic pressure. But can our countries impose such pressure in its current status? Of course not. Like the Israelis who were so upset because they were portrayed negatively in a Turkish series or movie, the officials expressed their resentment...and I believe it would be the same response coming from France if it was the french who were negatively portrayed or any other powerful country.

The only language that whom you called, maro, "barking dogs" understand is power, unfortunately we don't have it so anyway we don't have much options.