How Socialist...

[oldbadger]

While I think health, education and welfare something that ends up being beneficial to a nation, our politicians obtain almost celebrity status. Instead of serving the people they seem more interested in serving themselves. So I have a problem trusting the government with the funding.

Same motivation some religious have just replacing God with the government.

My concern with socialism is the need to trust the governing body. Not really with the social programs.

In which case it cannot be socialism you are against but wicked, greedy corrupt leadership?
And that we can find in any government, left, right or centre.
So I wonder what could be done about that....... that's the problem.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well, lets see what folks are looking for.

IMO socialism by the people sounds ideal but never seems to work out that way.

I think its going to happen. Not that I like it but people gravitate towards easier means and think that it's going to be forever.

It likely will be great for a few decades and then the inevitable will occur.

Like Greece.

Like Venezuela.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In my opinion, both American parties are 100% right-wing.
Democrats focus on social issues only (LGBTs, minorities) but I have never heard them speak of Economics.

Both display fascist behavior. I think the end means of either far right or far left are identical.

Totalitarianism.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think its going to happen. Not that I like it but people gravitate towards easier means and think that it's going to be forever.

It likely will be great for a few decades and then the inevitable will occur.

Like Greece.

Like Venezuela.

N Korea
Cuba
USSR
PRC (pre-capitalist)

Laos & Vietnam have moved towards capitalism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

N Korea
Cuba
USSR
PRC (pre-capitalist)

Laos & Vietnam have moved towards capitalism.

Unfortunately capitalism dosent always leads to democracy and free republics.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unfortunately capitalism dosent always leads to democracy and free republics.

The big difference....
Capitalism has examples of coexisting with democracy & liberty.
Socialism has always had oppressive governments, & poor
economic performance.
There are no guarantees that any system will be great.
But capitalism has the potential to be. Socialism does not.

 

[Nakosis]

I think the OP is an American. For some of them socialism is anything not sanctioned by Ayn Rand.

So then, what kind of socialist agenda do you think there ought to be?

 

[Secret Chief]

So then, what kind of socialist agenda do you think there ought to be?

Ought to be.....? For where? Nowhere is going to become socialist in the foreseeable, I don't think.

 

[Nakosis]

Yeah, I like that you are honest. It is about what you like. I like differently, now what?

Enforcement,

 

[Nakosis]

Ought to be.....? For where? Nowhere is going to become socialist in the foreseeable, I don't think.

Just a wish list.
Wondering what people might see as a better world.

 

[Secret Chief]

Just a wish list.
Wondering what people might see as a better world.

I suppose there's good and bad in most countries. Personally, I prefer the ones that focus more on society's good rather than on the supposed "freedom"of the individual.

 

[Estro Felino]

I suppose there's good and bad in most countries. Personally, I prefer the ones that focus more on society's good rather than on the supposed "freedom"of the individual

I utterly agree.
In the 21st there is overwhelming freedom in the West. Unfortunately there is also the freedom the rich have to oppress the poor.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I suppose there's good and bad in most countries. Personally, I prefer the ones that focus more on society's good rather than on the supposed "freedom"of the individual

That's a dangerous path to take.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Revoltingest
That's Socialism
Chez nous

 

[mangalavara]

Well, is that what you want?

Principal Skinner: 'No.'

Agnes Skinner: 'Seymour! The house is on fire!'

Principal Skinner: 'No, mother, it's just the State Anthem of the Soviet Union!'

Superintendent Chalmers: 'Well, Skinner, you are an odd fellow, but I must say, you privatize a good means of production.'

Agnes Skinner: 'Help! Heeelllp!'

Principal Skinner:

 

[Estro Felino]

Americans have never risen against the governors.
Most Europeans did.

I wonder how Americans are okay with a situation where very few people own the most of properties and resources within a huge country.

Here it would never happen because they know that the next day people would assault the palaces.

 

[Stevicus]

Americans have never risen against the governors.
Most Europeans did.

I wonder how Americans are okay with a situation where very few people own the most of properties and resources within a huge country.

Here it would never happen because they know that the next day people would assault the palaces.

Most Americans seem to be okay with the system as long as they believe they're getting treated fairly and get a sufficient amount to live on.

That's the key thing that the upper classes (from both parties) can't understand. They see the masses as "ignorant cattle," yet these cattle can clearly see how much they're getting paid and how much it actually costs to live. When there's a mismatch, they get incensed - although they might find different ways of reacting, seek out scapegoats, and other things that unscrupulous politicians can capitalize upon.

We've already seen some "palaces" attacked in the U.S., and we might see more of this in the years to come. Either the capitalists will give in and give more money and a better standard of living for the workers, or there will be an uprising, sooner or later. It probably won't be a socialist uprising, but probably more nationalist in its scope. Since socialism has been too widely discredited, people might view nationalism as a way of improving their lot in life. That's the likely reason we're seeing a rise in alt-right activity.

Ultimately, I see it as a consequence of capitalist greed. Liberals should know this, yet many of them continue to support capitalism, while being totally oblivious of the consequences.

 

[Estro Felino]

Most Americans seem to be okay with the system as long as they believe they're getting treated fairly and get a sufficient amount to live on.

That's the key thing that the upper classes (from both parties) can't understand. They see the masses as "ignorant cattle," yet these cattle can clearly see how much they're getting paid and how much it actually costs to live. When there's a mismatch, they get incensed - although they might find different ways of reacting, seek out scapegoats, and other things that unscrupulous politicians can capitalize upon.

We've already seen some "palaces" attacked in the U.S., and we might see more of this in the years to come. Either the capitalists will give in and give more money and a better standard of living for the workers, or there will be an uprising, sooner or later. It probably won't be a socialist uprising, but probably more nationalist in its scope. Since socialism has been too widely discredited, people might view nationalism as a way of improving their lot in life. That's the likely reason we're seeing a rise in alt-right activity.

Ultimately, I see it as a consequence of capitalist greed. Liberals should know this, yet many of them continue to support capitalism, while being totally oblivious of the consequences.

Let's not forget that when it happened in Europe, the army sided with the people.

 

[Secret Chief]

That's a dangerous path to take.

I could have put a bet on that you'd say that.

 

[Secret Chief]

I utterly agree.
In the 21st there is overwhelming freedom in the West. Unfortunately there is also the freedom the rich have to oppress the poor.

The rich don't "see" states anymore.