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I hadn’t really thought too much about victim culture as it’s not what I grew up with. It’s important to raise young people who will be resilient, capable and confident so they can make their way in the world and be contributing members of the community. OTOH prejudice in its myriad forms is real and a barrier to working amidst diverse peoples. It’s about getting the balance right. Maybe the pendulum has swung too far in American Universities, I don’t know. As an outsider looking at American culture, it’s not too pretty at the moment.
Jonathan Haidt on how the victimhood culture on some college campuses is producing a generation of weak and fragile students and teaching them to see other people in black and white terms as good or evil.
Questions? Comments?
"...however, I worry that his theory raises more questions than it answers. Why do some individuals feel that it is morally good (or necessary) to obey authority, favor the ingroup, and maintain purity, whereas others are skeptical? (Perhaps parenting style is relevant after all.) Why do some people think that it is morally acceptable to judge or even mistreat others such as gay or lesbian couples or, only a generation ago, interracial couples because they dislike or feel disgusted by them, whereas others do not? Why does the present generation “care about violence toward many more classes of victims today than [their] grandparents did in their time” (p. 134)? Haidt dismisses the possibility that this aspect of liberalism, which prizes universal over parochial considerations (the justice principle of impartiality), is in fact a tremendous cultural achievement—a shared victory over the limitations of our more primitive ancestral legacy. In this spirit, he spurns the John Lennon song, “Imagine”: "Imagine if there were no countries, and no religion too. If we could just erase the borders and boundaries that divide us, then the world would ‘be as one.’ It’s a vision of heaven for liberals, but conservatives believe it would quickly descend into hell. I think conservatives are on to something." (p. 311) Throughout the book Haidt mocks the liberal vision of a tolerant, pluralistic, civil society, but, ironically, this is precisely where he wants to end up, quoting Isaiah Berlin with evident approval at the end of his book: “I came to the conclusion that there is a plurality of ideals, as there is a plurality of cultures and of temperaments” (p. 320)".
Ironically, in the background I was listening to a show of personal accounts of sexual assault victim blaming on college campuses. With the repeating story of a sexual assaulter who was turned down by a girl began to write all manners of threatening and vile language on her whiteboard attached to her door. When brought to the campus attention she was told to 'take down the whiteboard.' When she did, he wrote on the physical door in sharpie instead. 'Oh well, nothing we can do. Just something you'll have to ignore.' In other words, 'toughen up, grow a thicker skin.'
I had already linked an article regarding the related subject of political correctness (which plays into this as it relates to people feeling 'victimized' by being offended in this similar war) in your other thread (I'll fix this link later if it's wrong, site is having maintenance atm) Everything we think about the political correctness debate is wrong
That said, I don't think there is such a "victim culture". Historically it's always been the conservatives who feel they are being victimized anytime a minority gets rights. Look at for example Christians who feel "persecuted" when others get a platform or when they are being criticized. A very conservative church my father went to would actually say that they faced persecution whenever they didn't get their way in society or they couldn't teach creationism in schools or even just someone being critical. I've seen the same thing with the LGBT rights movement and so many others.
This article, while talking about immigration, is also apt for any group I think as it touches on why so many people fight to try to stay above others in terms of social stratification:
Why America is the World’s Most Uniquely Cruel Society
In my experience and observation conservatives want to just dismiss anyone as having a "victim mentality" whenever they are criticized for saying something offensive. If people don't believe that this is the trend to excuse racist or hateful speech then just consider that Nazis and far right groups particularly associated with the alt-right (and supportive of Trump) have risen in prominence. Things like Charlottesville have been brewing for years and these groups feel emboldened. If campuses and society was so much into censoring everyone and all that under some kind of victim culture, why would these groups feel so free to openly chant to kill Jews in the streets and murder protesters? Why would a man go into a synagogue and shoot up the place? Why would a racist go into a black church and shoot people?
Perhaps campuses are pretty much the same as they have been for ages, but America as a nation has drifted so far into the far right wing. Sure, there are more support groups or whatever, and sometimes colleges take things a little too far. But usually it's the conservatives that project victimhood (think of that crying Neo-Nazi trying to get sympathy in his one video, and in another claiming to use it as a tactic, if anyone knows the name of it I forget) while plotting their own ways to actually oppress others.
All in all, this cry about colleges being too soft, is I think mostly a weapon used by conservatives to try to set up a system to easily dismiss criticism, demonize higher education as having a liberal bias (as much of Republican voter base is less educated), and generally because those marginalized groups often actually being victimized, if taken seriously, would threaten their socio-political power structure.
I had already linked an article regarding the related subject of political correctness (which plays into this as it relates to people feeling 'victimized' by being offended in this similar war) in your other thread (I'll fix this link later if it's wrong, site is having maintenance atm) Everything we think about the political correctness debate is wrong
That said, I don't think there is such a "victim culture". Historically it's always been the conservatives who feel they are being victimized anytime a minority gets rights. Look at for example Christians who feel "persecuted" when others get a platform or when they are being criticized. A very conservative church my father went to would actually say that they faced persecution whenever they didn't get their way in society or they couldn't teach creationism in schools or even just someone being critical. I've seen the same thing with the LGBT rights movement and so many others.
This article, while talking about immigration, is also apt for any group I think as it touches on why so many people fight to try to stay above others in terms of social stratification:
Why America is the World’s Most Uniquely Cruel Society
In my experience and observation conservatives want to just dismiss anyone as having a "victim mentality" whenever they are criticized for saying something offensive. If people don't believe that this is the trend to excuse racist or hateful speech then just consider that Nazis and far right groups particularly associated with the alt-right (and supportive of Trump) have risen in prominence. Things like Charlottesville have been brewing for years and these groups feel emboldened. If campuses and society was so much into censoring everyone and all that under some kind of victim culture, why would these groups feel so free to openly chant to kill Jews in the streets and murder protesters? Why would a man go into a synagogue and shoot up the place? Why would a racist go into a black church and shoot people?
Perhaps campuses are pretty much the same as they have been for ages, but America as a nation has drifted so far into the far right wing. Sure, there are more support groups or whatever, and sometimes colleges take things a little too far. But usually it's the conservatives that project victimhood (think of that crying Neo-Nazi trying to get sympathy in his one video, and in another claiming to use it as a tactic, if anyone knows the name of it I forget) while plotting their own ways to actually oppress others.
All in all, this cry about colleges being too soft, is I think mostly a weapon used by conservatives to try to set up a system to easily dismiss criticism, demonize higher education as having a liberal bias (as much of Republican voter base is less educated), and generally because those marginalized groups often actually being victimized, if taken seriously, would threaten their socio-political power structure.
Not to be argumentative, but this is the first time in my lifetime that colleges ever established 'crying closets' for students who feel the need for a good cry. Yeah, like your life sucks...
https://nypost.com/2018/04/26/college-adds-cry-closet-for-stressed-out-students/
I had already linked an article regarding the related subject of political correctness (which plays into this as it relates to people feeling 'victimized' by being offended in this similar war) in your other thread (I'll fix this link later if it's wrong, site is having maintenance atm) Everything we think about the political correctness debate is wrong
That said, I don't think there is such a "victim culture". Historically it's always been the conservatives who feel they are being victimized anytime a minority gets rights. Look at for example Christians who feel "persecuted" when others get a platform or when they are being criticized. A very conservative church my father went to would actually say that they faced persecution whenever they didn't get their way in society or they couldn't teach creationism in schools or even just someone being critical. I've seen the same thing with the LGBT rights movement and so many others.
This article, while talking about immigration, is also apt for any group I think as it touches on why so many people fight to try to stay above others in terms of social stratification:
Why America is the World’s Most Uniquely Cruel Society
In my experience and observation conservatives want to just dismiss anyone as having a "victim mentality" whenever they are criticized for saying something offensive. If people don't believe that this is the trend to excuse racist or hateful speech then just consider that Nazis and far right groups particularly associated with the alt-right (and supportive of Trump) have risen in prominence. Things like Charlottesville have been brewing for years and these groups feel emboldened. If campuses and society was so much into censoring everyone and all that under some kind of victim culture, why would these groups feel so free to openly chant to kill Jews in the streets and murder protesters? Why would a man go into a synagogue and shoot up the place? Why would a racist go into a black church and shoot people?
Perhaps campuses are pretty much the same as they have been for ages, but America as a nation has drifted so far into the far right wing. Sure, there are more support groups or whatever, and sometimes colleges take things a little too far. But usually it's the conservatives that project victimhood (think of that crying Neo-Nazi trying to get sympathy in his one video, and in another claiming to use it as a tactic, if anyone knows the name of it I forget) while plotting their own ways to actually oppress others.
All in all, this cry about colleges being too soft, is I think mostly a weapon used by conservatives to try to set up a system to easily dismiss criticism, demonize higher education as having a liberal bias (as much of Republican voter base is less educated), and generally because those marginalized groups often actually being victimized, if taken seriously, would threaten their socio-political power structure.
Ironically, in the background I was listening to a show of personal accounts of sexual assault victim blaming on college campuses. With the repeating story of a sexual assaulter who was turned down by a girl began to write all manners of threatening and vile language on her whiteboard attached to her door. When brought to the campus attention she was told to 'take down the whiteboard.' When she did, he wrote on the physical door in sharpie instead. 'Oh well, nothing we can do. Just something you'll have to ignore.' In other words, 'toughen up, grow a thicker skin.'
So I have some feelings and misgivings at what I see as a growing intolerance for victim blaming called 'weakness and fragility' or 'victim complex.' And the philosophy of 'dignity' vs 'victim' so easily used to ignore anything pre-filed under 'trivial' in the minds of people who aren't effected. Which is not to say there isn't a decent discussion to be had about the subject and how best to approach it. But imo, this isn't it.
Back when Haidt's book came out, John Jost did a wonderful review that I think is apt towards this lecture:
Jonathan Haidt on how the victimhood culture on some college campuses is producing a generation of weak and fragile students and teaching them to see other people in black and white terms as good or evil.
Questions? Comments?
As an undergrad, I went to my dorm room one
day to find someone had written "Chink" on
my door.
We exist in a culture of victimization because it is a main tenet of our culture that we humans must and should compete with each other for the opportunity to fulfill our own existence. Because we believe that there should be 'winners' and 'losers', the free and the subjugated, there are winners and losers among us, and the free and the subjugated. Pretending that this is not so is delusional. Blaming the victims is part of the victimization culture.
The U.S. government has long considered what we call "social justice warriors" as useful idiots to use to destabilize countries. This idea is briefly mentioned in a thirty or so page pamphlet that was issued during the war in Nicaragua that has been declassified.
Jonathan Haidt on how the victimhood culture on some college campuses is producing a generation of weak and fragile students and teaching them to see other people in black and white terms as good or evil.
Questions? Comments?
Also-there is a lawsuit by Asian students, against Harvard
over their discriminatory admission program.
Is this an example of what you'd call action by "social justice
warriors"?
Isn't that sort of the opposite?
Asian students are discriminated against in order to promote diversity because they are doing too well and take up too many places. So Asians are discriminated against so that minorities and 'people of colour' get a fair chance
I guess this probably makes Asians racist for objecting to being discriminated against
Incidentally, affirmative action programmes can potentially have a negative effect on those who take them up at elite universities, at least regarding STEM subjects. The drop out rate is higher as they are more likely to find the work hard. This means they can lose confidence due to constantly coming near the bottom of the class as it's full of geniuses, compounded by the fact that they are used to being close to the smartest person in the room at school.
Ironically, in the background I was listening to a show of personal accounts of sexual assault victim blaming on college campuses. With the repeating story of a sexual assaulter who was turned down by a girl began to write all manners of threatening and vile language on her whiteboard attached to her door. When brought to the campus attention she was told to 'take down the whiteboard.' When she did, he wrote on the physical door in sharpie instead. 'Oh well, nothing we can do. Just something you'll have to ignore.' In other words, 'toughen up, grow a thicker skin.'