How to be a Polytheist Ally

[Quintessence]

One of the beautiful things about living in this era is the diversity of cultures and peoples we have the opportunity to learn about. With exposure to diversity comes good and bad: some embrace this diversity and value pluralism, some want to shut their doors to it, and others become discriminatory and hateful towards peoples that are not like them.

Religious diversity is one facet of cultural diversity that bears a few moments of consideration. How do we become allies to diverse religious groups? An article written a couple of years ago by Anomalous Thracian focuses on the challenges that Polytheists face in particular. The full article is definitely worth a gander if you are not very familiar with Polytheism - see http://wildhunt.org/2015/05/guest-post-a-polytheist-primer.html - but below is a summary of their "10 Steps to Being a Good Ally to Polytheists"

1. Be a listener to Polytheists in your life. Polytheists often report that others do not listen to them, or attempt to re-frame what they self-report in a way the undermines, reduces, dismisses, pathologizes, or otherwise erases the experiences and identities of the Polytheists in question.
2. Be open-minded. It is important to understand that your comfort with another person’s religion, practices, experience or identity is not relevant when approaching the subject with compassion, respect, and the universally declared statements of human rights pertaining to religious practice and identity.
3. Be willing to talk to and about Polytheists in a positive way. On the topics of our religions and our experiences, please start with “listening” and “being open minded.” Do not attempt to tell us that we are “wrong,” “nutters,” “mentally ill,” “crazy,” “fundamentalists,” “fascists,” or that we need to be “culled from the herd.”
4. Be inclusive and invite Polytheist friends to things. Inclusivity is appreciated. Being shunned by Pagan and other religious or secular communities does happen, because sometimes Polytheists have different ways of being.
5. Do not assume that everyone is theistically (religiously) identified the way that you are. Do not assume, for example, that everyone who talks about religion is a monotheist. Please do not assume that “religion” means “monotheism.”
6. Anti-religion and anti-theistic jokes, comments, and statements are harmful. Anti-theism is not funny, and humor intended to suggest that those with religious and theistic views are ignorant, mentally ill, or culturally devolved is an expression of callous supremacy. Supremacy is not funny.
7. Confront your own prejudices and privileges even when it is uncomfortable to do so. There are many helpful guides online and at your local library. Look for books and websites that explore the topics of internalized systemic prejudice and privilege.
8. Defend your Polytheist friends against prejudice, discrimination and erasure. If you are looking to be an ally to Polytheist religionists, please show them that they are not alone, and you will defend their rights and their dignity.
9. Act in accordance with a belief that all people, regardless of religious identity or experience, should be treated with unconditional dignity and respect; even when that identity or experience are different from your own. Check your own intellectual entitlement at the door, and recognize that your understanding of another group’s identity or practices is not relevant to your affirmation that all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
10. If you see Polytheist religions, traditions, or persons identified religiously and devotionally in this way being misrepresented in the media, report it.

Adapted from - http://wildhunt.org/2015/05/guest-post-a-polytheist-primer.html ​

Some of these could reasonably apply to being an ally to other religions as well. What ten things might you list as a guide for being a good ally for your religious (or irreligious) tradition?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

One of the beautiful things about living in this era is the diversity of cultures and peoples we have the opportunity to learn about. With exposure to diversity comes good and bad: some embrace this diversity and value pluralism, some want to shut their doors to it, and others become discriminatory and hateful towards peoples that are not like them.

Religious diversity is one facet of cultural diversity that bears a few moments of consideration. How do we become allies to diverse religious groups? An article written a couple of years ago by Anomalous Thracian focuses on the challenges that Polytheists face in particular. The full article is definitely worth a gander if you are not very familiar with Polytheism - see http://wildhunt.org/2015/05/guest-post-a-polytheist-primer.html - but below is a summary of their "10 Steps to Being a Good Ally to Polytheists"

1. Be a listener to Polytheists in your life. Polytheists often report that others do not listen to them, or attempt to re-frame what they self-report in a way the undermines, reduces, dismisses, pathologizes, or otherwise erases the experiences and identities of the Polytheists in question.
2. Be open-minded. It is important to understand that your comfort with another person’s religion, practices, experience or identity is not relevant when approaching the subject with compassion, respect, and the universally declared statements of human rights pertaining to religious practice and identity.
3. Be willing to talk to and about Polytheists in a positive way. On the topics of our religions and our experiences, please start with “listening” and “being open minded.” Do not attempt to tell us that we are “wrong,” “nutters,” “mentally ill,” “crazy,” “fundamentalists,” “fascists,” or that we need to be “culled from the herd.”
4. Be inclusive and invite Polytheist friends to things. Inclusivity is appreciated. Being shunned by Pagan and other religious or secular communities does happen, because sometimes Polytheists have different ways of being.
5. Do not assume that everyone is theistically (religiously) identified the way that you are. Do not assume, for example, that everyone who talks about religion is a monotheist. Please do not assume that “religion” means “monotheism.”
6. Anti-religion and anti-theistic jokes, comments, and statements are harmful. Anti-theism is not funny, and humor intended to suggest that those with religious and theistic views are ignorant, mentally ill, or culturally devolved is an expression of callous supremacy. Supremacy is not funny.
7. Confront your own prejudices and privileges even when it is uncomfortable to do so. There are many helpful guides online and at your local library. Look for books and websites that explore the topics of internalized systemic prejudice and privilege.
8. Defend your Polytheist friends against prejudice, discrimination and erasure. If you are looking to be an ally to Polytheist religionists, please show them that they are not alone, and you will defend their rights and their dignity.
9. Act in accordance with a belief that all people, regardless of religious identity or experience, should be treated with unconditional dignity and respect; even when that identity or experience are different from your own. Check your own intellectual entitlement at the door, and recognize that your understanding of another group’s identity or practices is not relevant to your affirmation that all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
10. If you see Polytheist religions, traditions, or persons identified religiously and devotionally in this way being misrepresented in the media, report it.

Adapted from - http://wildhunt.org/2015/05/guest-post-a-polytheist-primer.html ​

Some of these could reasonably apply to being an ally to other religions as well. What ten things might you list as a guide for being a good ally for your religious (or irreligious) tradition?

I'd like to suggest a small addendum to point #8. It might seem unnecessary but IMO worth adding "even when they are not around". For some reason it can be easier for people to stand up to prejudice when the victims are around to hear it first-hand than when they are not.

This is still a great list, regardless. Well done!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Some of these could reasonably apply to being an ally to other religions as well. What ten things might you list as a guide for being a good ally for your religious (or irreligious) tradition?

Interesting topic. In Buddhism, it's more lack of education rather than blunt bias and negativity as I received from protestant Christians and non-christians alike. I can deal with the lack of education but not the bias of "your own kind."

In Buddhism, I'd say

1. Be reflective and have interest if conversing

If you're in a conversation and talking of religion, it would be polite to take interest in the other person's faith and vis versa. If it's a one-sided conversation "I don't talk about my faith or I will wear your ear out about it" it's one-sided and no one learns a thing.

2. Watch your bias (Ask questions)

Admit that if it's not your faith, you don't know much about it without practice. If it isn't your faith in a personal sense, note that these past experiences reflect that religion is not meant to be negative but a positive approach to self growth. I fit doesn't work for you, that does not mean it doesn't work for others. Do we worship The Buddha? The answer depends on who you ask. But we have preconceived definitions of worship and that is okay.

3. Be culturally sensitive.

There is no "Western Buddhism" there is no "Eastern Buddhism" no Thai and no, I don't know Italian. It's just Buddhism. It's just the practice of The Dharma. Yes, there is theology, dogma, and beliefs. I've seen western Buddhist thick with dogma. I've seen eastern Buddhist relaxed with it. Culture and language sensitivity both from an eastern perspective (we practice the right Buddhism) and a western perspective (Buddhism is just a philosophy not a religion)

4. Listen to those who practice not just those who read about the religion.

Some people who practice religion: Many Catholics, Hindus, and Buddhists, etc have not read their own sacred text but practice it instead. A nun I listened to during Dharma talk says that many converts are more scripture-oriented. (Doesn't matter western or eastern) Many raised into the faith are practice-oriented. Both sides have their pros and cons.

5. Educate yourself

Many websites say Buddhism is not a polytheist religion; it's an atheist one. I always wonder about this, especially from a sutra perspective. Nichiren Shoshu and SGI Buddhist seem to have that perspective from in person experience.

Buddhism is a polytheist religion. The Buddha is a theist. Too much to explain. Education is important, though.

6. This one I like: Do not assume that everyone is theistically (religiously) identified the way that you are.

The two big ones is remove bias (not all are theist; not all reflect theistic worldview) and be culturally sensitive (not all easterners know the real faith; not all westerners distort the real faith)

Everything else comes with time. Education is a huge one as well as respect and understanding when to continue the convo. or cut it short respectively.

 

[Nakosis]

1. Anti-religion and anti-theistic jokes, comments, and statements are harmful. Anti-theism is not funny, and humor intended to suggest that those with religious and theistic views are ignorant, mentally ill, or culturally devolved is an expression of callous supremacy. Supremacy is not funny.

The only thing I'd disagree with is I think everything is up for ridicule. That has nothing to do with supremacy.

I think there are plenty of non-polytheists who have views that are ignorant, mentally ill and perhaps culturally devoid.

There's nothing special about polytheists that prevents them from express ideas that should be ridiculed. Folks can come up with some crazy ideas. Nothing personal about polytheists, that's just humans in general.

It I come up with some crazy view about reality, I hope someone takes the time to ridicule it as well.

 

[suncowiam]

The only thing I'd disagree with is I think everything is up for ridicule. That has nothing to do with supremacy.

I think there are plenty of non-polytheists who have views that are ignorant, mentally ill and perhaps culturally devoid.

There's nothing special about polytheists that prevents them from express ideas that should be ridiculed. Folks can come up with some crazy ideas. Nothing personal about polytheists, that's just humans in general.

It I come up with some crazy view about reality, I hope someone takes the time to ridicule it as well.

Gotta agree with this.

I fit various groups like video gamers, athletes, engineers, nerds, geeks.

It is what it is. If the jokes are funny because they poked at some stereotype, I'll laugh at it. Like everything, else we have to measure the intent from the person giving the joke.

Let's not just jump to conclusions.

 

[Quintessence]

Well, I suppose it's nice to have a live demonstration of why that line item about ridicule is one of the most important ones on the list.

 

[Kapalika]

The only thing I'd disagree with is I think everything is up for ridicule. That has nothing to do with supremacy.

I think there are plenty of non-polytheists who have views that are ignorant, mentally ill and perhaps culturally devoid.

There's nothing special about polytheists that prevents them from express ideas that should be ridiculed. Folks can come up with some crazy ideas. Nothing personal about polytheists, that's just humans in general.

It I come up with some crazy view about reality, I hope someone takes the time to ridicule it as well.

Thank you for using mental illness as something to be mocked. I'll be sure to confide in the fact that I have bipolar as a reason that people can attack me and my beliefs. I love it when people assume I believe in my religion because I'm mentally ill and would rather make assumptions and petty insults than even take longer than 5 seconds to hear anything about my beliefs before making a judgement.

I love it when people hear just a mention of religion (let alone what kind) and instantly label me crazy, delusional or mentally ill even when they don't know I actually do have a genetic disorder that actually is a mental illness.

Just knowing that they will look down on me and attribute my belief system to it if they ever find out is comforting. I mean of course I'd have to be crazy to believe in Shiva or Satan, right? No need to actually use critical thinking when you can just mock and label me a certain way for a cheap laugh!

Bonus points if I've never made any phenomena claims before the mockery begins about how delusional I am.

Gotta agree with this.

I fit various groups like video gamers, athletes, engineers, nerds, geeks.

It is what it is. If the jokes are funny because they poked at some stereotype, I'll laugh at it. Like everything, else we have to measure the intent from the person giving the joke.

It feels good knowing that "mentally ill" is an insult. It's not like it's a constant challenge I'm having to deal with in my life. No big deal.

Maybe next we should call people cripples because they are not athletic. I bet those who were in horrific accidents that you actually call a cripple to mock them will love it and think it's hilarious.

Let's not just jump to conclusions.

Let's not use the fact that a lot of people do what I just said as a reason to question this.

Well, I suppose it's nice to have a live demonstration of why that line item about ridicule is one of the most important ones on the list.

I was gonna ask why polytheists need allies, but after reading that bit about mockery maybe a lot of us do. Is their posts even within the spirit of the interfaith topics?

EDIT: grammar

 

[suncowiam]

Thank you for using mental illness as something to be mocked. I'll be sure to confide in the fact that I have bipolar as a reason that people can attack me and my beliefs. I love it when people assume I believe in my religion because I'm mentally ill and would rather make assumptions and petty insults than even take longer than 5 seconds to hear anything about my beliefs before making a judgement.

I love it when people hear just a mention of religion (let alone what kind) and instantly label me crazy, delusional or mentally ill even when they don't know I actually do have a genetic disorder that actually is a mental illness.

Just knowing that they will look down on me and attribute my belief system if they ever find out is comforting. I mean of course I'd have to be crazy to believe in Shiva or Satan, right? No need to actually use critical thinking when you can just mock and label me a certain way for a cheap laugh!

Bonus points if I've never made any phenomena claims before the mockery begins about how delusional I am.



It feels good knowing that "mentally ill" is an insult. It's not like it's a constant challenge I'm having to deal with in my life. No big deal.

Maybe next we should call people cripples because they are not athletic. I bet those who were in horrific accidents that you actually call a cripple to mock them will love it and think it's hilarious.



Let's not use the fact that a lot of people do what I just said as a reason to question this.



I was gonna ask why polytheists need allies, but after reading that bit about mockery maybe a lot of us do. Is their posts even within the spirit of the interfaith topics?

Did anyone quote mentally ill or crippled?

Dramatizations do not justify your case.

Jokes do have a time and place. My suggestion is just don't take offense at every little comment before understanding the intent of the speaker.

 

[Kapalika]

Did anyone quote mentally ill or crippled?

Yes, you responded agreeing with, emphasis added:

I think there are plenty of non-polytheists who have views that are ignorant, mentally ill and perhaps culturally devoid.

Dramatizations do not justify your case.

So my own experiences in my life and reacting to just what was said is being dramatic? Get real.

Jokes do have a time and place. My suggestion is just don't take offense at every little comment before understanding the intent of the speaker.

Mocking beliefs as "mentally ill" is just exacerbating a very real stigma against actual mental illness. It's malicious and that's the only intent it can have. Particularly if the person you are mocking as mentally ill actually is mentally ill. And if they aren't it still isn't a joke if your laughing at someone and comparing them to someone with a medical condition. That's why I made the comparison to being crippled. The only difference is how apparent it is at a glance.

You're both just proving the OP's point. I don't know why you are posting in the Interfaith section if you are not even religious.

 

[Quintessence]

I was gonna ask why polytheists need allies, but after reading that bit about mockery maybe a lot of us do. Is their posts even within the spirit of the interfaith topics?

No, not really. For better or worse, it's not uncommon for people to fail to see the line between tasteful humor and hurtful ridicule. I was raised in an environment that recognized these things so I take seeing that line for granted, but not everybody was. Some people grew up in households where spewing out "that's gay" or the occasional racist "joke" was perfectly acceptable. I didn't grow up like that, so I'll tend to take the perspective that anti-theist/anti-religious "jokes" fall into the same fundamental category as, say, anti-Semitic "jokes" or anti-transsexual "jokes." They're more hurtful than helpful.

Most of the time I just roll my eyes at them, though, because some 95%+ of the time, their "jokes" fail to meaningfully apply to anything outside of Christianity or monotheists anyway. I like point #5 in Thracian's list because it prompts people to remember, religion =/= Christianity, and religion =/= monotheism (and thus religion =/= dogma, religion =/= fundamentalism, religion =/= faith based, religion =/= supernaturalists, and on and on).

 

[Kapalika]

Most of the time I just roll my eyes at them, though, because some 95%+ of the time, their "jokes" fail to meaningfully apply to anything outside of Christianity or monotheists anyway. I like point #5 in Thracian's list because it prompts people to remember, religion =/= Christianity, and religion =/= monotheism (and thus religion =/= dogma, religion =/= fundamentalism, religion =/= faith based, religion =/= supernaturalists, and on and on).

I think another thing I've been working on over the years too, is to explain that religion is a very broad multidimensional spectrum. How much of the 'supernatural' someone believes in (if any) can vary as much as how 'theistic' or not we are. It's a funny place to be called an atheist or theist based on who you ask.

I guess for some, believing in any kind of supernatural stuff categorically puts it all in one set. I honestly think a lot of what people describe as spiritual or religious isn't more supernatural than any other phenomena. However the point I'd disagree with the atheist is that I don't think that that fact invalidates the experience or the religion. It just contextualizes it in a broader understanding of what's going on.

I hope that makes sense. My point is, it isn't a hard and fast "true or false" that makes something religious valid. Religions can have true or false claims but religion is so much more than metaphysics

 

[suncowiam]

Yes, you responded agreeing with, emphasis added:





So my own experiences in my life and reacting to just what was said is being dramatic? Get real.



Mocking beliefs as "mentally ill" is just exacerbating a very real stigma against actual mental illness. It's malicious and that's the only intent it can have. Particularly if the person you are mocking as mentally ill actually is mentally ill. And if they aren't it still isn't a joke if your laughing at someone and comparing them to someone with a medical condition. That's why I made the comparison to being crippled. The only difference is how apparent it is at a glance.

You're both just proving the OP's point. I don't know why you are posting in the Interfaith section if you are not even religious.

I apologize. Nakosis did mention mentally ill. That was not my intent to reaffrim that but to suggest not to be too sensitive to jokes without consideration of the intentions. I have many jokes passed my way for being a video gamer, nerd, geek and so on. But it's mostly been good-natured and fun. This really should have been a different subject before crossing over.

Now, I wouldn't be honest and straight-forward if I didn't touch what Nakosis is talking about. Before I do, I just want to be clear that my intentions are not out of disrespect and maliciousness. I could very be ignorant to the facts concerning this but here goes it by having an completely honest discussion over it.

I do consider that most theists have some type of mental illness. Why? It is only theists that get a pass by asserting the existence of beings that cannot be proven. Even you would agree that there might be something wrong if an acquaintance kept on asserting that a monster lived in the basement of his house? But over and over again, this person cannot prove that there really exists a monster. This suppose monster creates much anxiety and fear of the individual to not be considered healthy. That is the simplest analogy. Again, I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful. I think it's reasonable to have such a comparison.

NOW... I understand many people use religion as a guide to happiness. I understand depression can be helped by spirituality and by being able to define existence and the meaning of life. Depression is clinically considered a mental illness. I would rather people be able to fight their depressions even with the use of religion than restrict against this. What I am ANTI about is the extremist side of religion. I support moderates of all religion. They pose no threat to society. They peacefully live with others outside their cast knowing and accepting their beliefs are truly their own beliefs. I will give a pass to these moderates even if they cannot prove their beliefs. I cannot do the same for extremists. Those that kill in the name of God. Those that subjugate and oppress in the name of God. I, obviously, cannot give the same pass. But here is the root of my issues. The moderates use the exact same process as the extremist to form their beliefs. I am conflicted by giving a pass to one set versus another. Theists could help me out here if they somehow refine their processes to ensure their beliefs do not encroach on the extremists side. Just like religion can help in areas of depression, it can do the opposite by making people more hateful, more angry and so on. It can bring people to what can be considered mentally ill. It is two sides of the same sword.

I think what I've said is fair and reasonable. I've been completely honest with no intention of hurting or disrespecting. The subject is sensitive but I feel that I was able to logically assert various aspects.

 

[Nakosis]

Thank you for using mental illness as something to be mocked. I'll be sure to confide in the fact that I have bipolar as a reason that people can attack me and my beliefs. I love it when people assume I believe in my religion because I'm mentally ill and would rather make assumptions and petty insults than even take longer than 5 seconds to hear anything about my beliefs before making a judgement.

I love it when people hear just a mention of religion (let alone what kind) and instantly label me crazy, delusional or mentally ill even when they don't know I actually do have a genetic disorder that actually is a mental illness.

Just knowing that they will look down on me and attribute my belief system to it if they ever find out is comforting. I mean of course I'd have to be crazy to believe in Shiva or Satan, right? No need to actually use critical thinking when you can just mock and label me a certain way for a cheap laugh!

Bonus points if I've never made any phenomena claims before the mockery begins about how delusional I am.



It feels good knowing that "mentally ill" is an insult. It's not like it's a constant challenge I'm having to deal with in my life. No big deal.

Maybe next we should call people cripples because they are not athletic. I bet those who were in horrific accidents that you actually call a cripple to mock them will love it and think it's hilarious.

I hope you're not using your mental condition as an excuse for your beliefs?

Everyone has problems, issues that they personally have to deal with. All I was saying is the polytheist are not unique in having issues. I assume a bipolar person is as likely to be an atheist as a theist.

I'm not going to mock your beliefs because you are bipolar. I'm going to mock your beliefs because I feel they should be mocked. Your personal issues IMO are irrelevant to whatever idea, philosophy or belief you are promoting.

I'm sorry if you find being treated as a equal offensive however, I'm not going to treat your ideas as special because of any personal issues you have going on. If that is a problem for you, I suggest you don't engage in a discussion about your beliefs.

 

[Kapalika]

I hope you're not using your mental condition as an excuse for your beliefs?

Are you serious? How can you interpret that as literally the opposite of what I was actually saying?

What I actually said (sarcastically):

I love it when people assume I believe in my religion because I'm mentally ill

Pretty much all of your response is one giant strawman. But I guess this is what i get when I try to make a bunch of sarcastic points about the intersection of anti-religious bigotry and mental illness stigma .

I'm not going to mock your beliefs because you are bipolar. I'm going to mock your beliefs because I feel they should be mocked.

Ah, so here's the heart of the issue. You feel you have the right to mock others and it be alright, no consequences.

That isn't how people work. If you just go off mocking them or their beliefs they are going to react negatively. It doesn't matter if it's political or religious or whatever. There's a term for the behavior you're advocating and it's called being toxic.

 

[Kapalika]

I apologize. Nakosis did mention mentally ill.

Alright I understand. Mistakes happen.

I do consider that most theists have some type of mental illness. Why? It is only theists that get a pass by asserting the existence of beings that cannot be proven.

Then the majority of humans are mentally ill by that standard. Only 18% of people are atheist or irreligious. And I'd think the majority of religious believe in some form of theism. That's way too many people to be a disorder anymore than lactose tolerance is a disorder (and a lot more people are religious than lactose tolerant).

Even you would agree that there might be something wrong if an acquaintance kept on asserting that a monster lived in the basement of his house? But over and over again, this person cannot prove that there really exists a monster.

This is my view of reality but the fact that they are experiencing proves it's real in some way. It might not be real in the sense of flesh and blood but thoughts and experiences are every bit as real as any other phenomena. It's also normal to have paranoid feelings about something dangerous in dimly lit places. We developed a lot of fears like that as a survival mechanism. It just takes being wrong once for it to really be a predator.

So no, I wouldn't think anything is "wrong" with the person. I'd be more concerned that there is really a person living and hiding in their house. Stuff like that has happened and people made them out to be insane until someone else realized it too or the cops came one time and actually found someone. People have lived in cabinets and attics too.

Full blown hallucinations with absolutely no basis in reality are extremely rare, but inaccurate beliefs and explanations about events around ones life supernatural or not are very common and not at all a sign of mental illness. Humans are pattern seeking creatures and generally superstitious. It's the overtly non religious that are the odd ones ironically. Not that that is "wrong" either, just that they fall out of the norm.

I would rather people be able to fight their depressions even with the use of religion than restrict against this.

My view is a little different. I would rather say that religion should enrich life, not be a substitute for other things lacking. This isn't the most intuitive but spiritual needs can't be fully met until physical, emotional and mental needs are met.

That said, it can help some in hard times.

What I am ANTI about is the extremist side of religion.

I think everyone but extremists are anti extremist too.

I think what I've said is fair and reasonable. I've been completely honest with no intention of hurting or disrespecting. The subject is sensitive but I feel that I was able to logically assert various aspects.

Ya I think it was pretty fair. Sorry for the earlier misunderstanding.

 

[Nakosis]

Are you serious? How can you interpret that as literally the opposite of what I was actually saying?

Pretty much all of your response is one giant strawman. But I guess this is what i get when I try to make a bunch of sarcastic points about the intersection of anti-religious bigotry and mental illness stigma .

One strawman for another. was hoping you might realize that.

Ah, so here's the heart of the issue. You feel you have the right to mock others and it be alright, no consequences.

I don't know it's a right, I'm just saying if I find your beliefs ridiculous, I might mock them and also accept any responsibility for my action.

That isn't how people work. If you just go off mocking them or their beliefs they are going to react negatively. It doesn't matter if it's political or religious or whatever. There's a term for the behavior you're advocating and it's called being toxic.

Yes, I think we need folks who are going to be "toxic" as you say, in order to call attention to an idea that should be questioned.

There are directories available where no one's allowed to ridicule your beliefs.

If someone posts in general discussion however I assume they are up for any criticism directed towards their beliefs.

That being said to defend my position, this is probably not the best directory for this discussion. However you might want to reread my post and maybe see where you misunderstood my intent.

 

[suncowiam]

Alright I understand. Mistakes happen.



Then the majority of humans are mentally ill by that standard. Only 18% of people are atheist or irreligious. And I'd think the majority of religious believe in some form of theism. That's way too many people to be a disorder anymore than lactose tolerance is a disorder (and a lot more people are religious than lactose tolerant).



This is my view of reality but the fact that they are experiencing proves it's real in some way. It might not be real in the sense of flesh and blood but thoughts and experiences are every bit as real as any other phenomena. It's also normal to have paranoid feelings about something dangerous in dimly lit places. We developed a lot of fears like that as a survival mechanism. It just takes being wrong once for it to really be a predator.

So no, I wouldn't think anything is "wrong" with the person. I'd be more concerned that there is really a person living and hiding in their house. Stuff like that has happened and people made them out to be insane until someone else realized it too or the cops came one time and actually found someone. People have lived in cabinets and attics too.

Full blown hallucinations with absolutely no basis in reality are extremely rare, but inaccurate beliefs and explanations about events around ones life supernatural or not are very common and not at all a sign of mental illness. Humans are pattern seeking creatures and generally superstitious. It's the overtly non religious that are the odd ones ironically. Not that that is "wrong" either, just that they fall out of the norm.



My view is a little different. I would rather say that religion should enrich life, not be a substitute for other things lacking. This isn't the most intuitive but spiritual needs can't be fully met until physical, emotional and mental needs are met.

That said, it can help some in hard times.



I think everyone but extremists are anti extremist too.



Ya I think it was pretty fair. Sorry for the earlier misunderstanding.

When religion can resolve the extremist side of itself then more will be accepting of it.

I accept religion is most cases but will always be defensive towards what it can evolve into. IMO, it takes very little for one person, one group, or one sect to perverse the translations of its beliefs to cause violence and oppression.

The argument could be to differentiate moderate and extremists. But like I said before, both have the same processes to conclude their beliefs. And because of that, I cannot cleanly separate the two.

 

[Kapalika]

One strawman for another. was hoping you might realize that.

Uh, no I didn't strawman you. I made it pretty clear I wasn't attributing to you what I was describing.

Yes, I think we need folks who are going to be "toxic" as you say, in order to call attention to an idea that should be questioned.

Good luck with that, but for the record being (actually) skeptical and mocking something is very different. Mockery doesn't invite any real discussion

There are directories available where no one's allowed to ridicule your beliefs.

Wouldn't one of those places be the Interfaith Discussion forum which this is in?

That being said to defend my position, this is probably not the best directory for this discussion. However you might want to reread my post and maybe see where you misunderstood my intent.

Right, so go to the debates then and advocate for it there instead of derailing someone else's thread.

 

[Nakosis]

Uh, no I didn't strawman you. I made it pretty clear I wasn't attributing to you what I was describing.



Good luck with that, but for the record being (actually) skeptical and mocking something is very different. Mockery doesn't invite any real discussion



Wouldn't one of those places be the Interfaith Discussion forum which this is in?



Right, so go to the debates then and advocate for it there instead of derailing someone else's thread.

Ok we're just going to have to disagree on this.

I was just expressing my opinion on the OP, you took it off on this tangent.

 

[syo]

What ten things might you list as a guide for being a good ally for your religious (or irreligious) tradition?

only love can make a true ally, in my opinion. approach other religions in good humour, that's all.