Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So that would mean that it is not right that the same Jesus is going to return, since that is what almost all Christians believe.
The narrow way has to be something else.
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How to die safely?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
The narrow way has to be something else.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
You will have a body, but it will not be physical....
Who would want to have a physical body for all of eternity?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not like to be disrespectful of peoples' beliefs, but I have finally reached a point where I have zero tolerance for fantasies. Dead bodies do not rise from graves.
74x12
Well-Known Member
"Most Christians" give lip service to things they don't really understand or even think about very much. The "cross" is but a dainty thing they wear on a necklace. Jesus said take up your cross but His was made of rough wood. No doubt it was heavy on His wounds. Many atheists know the Bible better than your average Christian.So that would mean that it is not right that the same Jesus is going to return, since that is what almost all Christians believe.
The narrow way has to be something else.
The fact that Jesus will return in the clouds of heaven is testified in all the scriptures. He'll be back alright. But in the glory of the Father as He said. So He will be in the revealed glory of God.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Why limit God?I do not like to be disrespectful of peoples' beliefs, but I have finally reached a point where I have zero tolerance for fantasies. Dead bodies do not rise from graves.
Just try to die with no regrets and with all that needs to be said, said. Be at peace and grateful as you go to be with the ancestors.
It's deeds that matter, not beliefs.
It's deeds that matter, not beliefs.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I can agree with all of that....
No, that absolutely is not in any scripture. Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven, but He was not referring to Himself. Nowhere in the NT did Jesus ever promise to return in the same body, nowhere. There is not one verse.
The revealed glory of God was Baha'u'llah who Jesus sent in the name of the Father. Baha'u'llah was thus the return of the Christ Spirit promised by Jesus. This is all explained in John 14, 15 and 16.
Jesus was the Son of man and Baha'u'llah was the return of the Son of man.
Baha'u'llah means "the Glory of God" in Arabic.
Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
74x12
Well-Known Member
In Acts 1:11 the angel claims that Jesus will return as He went. Clearly, by descending down from a cloud.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is not limiting God, it is just being rational.
There is no reason why God would resuscitate dead bodies and bring them back to life.
The body is not who we are so there is no reason it would come back to life. The soul is who we are. After the physical body dies, the soul wings its flight to the spiritual world and it takes on a new form and continues to exist for eternity.
“The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 156-157
“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Correct. The only reason beliefs matter is to the extent that they promote good deeds.
“The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The angel did not claim that. Christians claim that the verses mean what they do not mean.
Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven.
The verses do not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.
Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.
“But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 104-105
Jesus never claimed that He was going to return to earth. Christians claimed that.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
74x12
Well-Known Member
The idea that Jesus did not physically resurrect is disproven by Luke 24:39 ...
Riders
Well-Known Member
There are many Atheist Buddhists and Atheist Hindus. I believe if I meditate enough and long enough I will come to a place of being at peace with myself and nature. Then if I get stuck in my body when I'm dead my brains will pick up on natural sounds like birds and bugs chirping and cars going by and be at one with it.
If I am not then Ill be asleep and peaceful or my mind will be meditating aand tripping out on something good.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
That one verse does not prove that Jesus rose from the grave, because there are other explanations as to what it means. Jesus could easily have made Himself appear to the disciples like flesh and bones. Jesus had a spirit body assigned to Him in heaven so He could have returned to earth in that spirit body to reassure the disciples. Another explanation is that the resurrection story is just a story that has symbolic meaning and it never happened at all the way it was written.
What does Christianity have without the resurrection? Well, they have the cross sacrifice and all the teachings of Jesus, which are what really matter. The resurrection belief was added later and it created all kinds of superstitious beliefs, like Jesus ascending into the sky and returning on a cloud and bodies rising from graves when Jesus returns. How do you think that a physical body can live outside of a physical world, above the clouds? How do you think that decomposed bodies will be recomposed and rise from graves? What will happen after that? Where will these bodies all go, what will they do? Don't people even wonder about these things?
The answer "God can do anything" is not an answer. The question is why God would do something like this that God has never done before and what good would it do? The Baha'i Faith has a much better explanation as to what happens after we die and it is far preferable to living in a physical body for all of eternity. I cannot even imagine why anyone would want that and no loving God would want that for us. God has something much better in store for those who loved and served Him faithfully.
Jesus says that the physical body does not profit us, yet Christians still worship the resurrected body of Jesus and hope that they will have one like it and that they will live in it forever. This makes no sense to someone like me looking in from the outside. Moreover, Jesus never said that anyone would rise from graves and live in a physical body forever. That belief came about from a misinterpretation of scripture.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Axe Elf
Prophet
I'm surprised to see a "prophet" say that! Surely you can believe that dying is healthy at times. I mean, after death of a person can be far more perfected and happy. Sounds like a healthy thing to me.
Unless dying is always healthy, then it is inherently risky, as I said.
Segev Moran
Well-Known Member
The safest way of dying is to be a good person.
It has got nothing to do with your beliefs or religion.
Know God, be kind and helpful. I don't think by the name of which religion or non religion you do it for
Im happy with my life, dying is not a problem to this atheist. I know {roughly} what will happen to my molecules and atoms. Life goes on.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
And here I was thinking being born was risky.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
As you made mention above ( Who on Earth do I listen to?)
As to why would you want to listen to anyone in the first place.
What you should being doing is, investigating for yourself.
This is why I do not belong to any at all Religious organizations at all.
because in all those Religious organizations, people have become followers of what they are told and not doing any studying or investigating for themselves.
And they haven't a clue or idea what their being told if it's true or not. They only run with what they are told,
My eternal life is in my hands and not any Religious organizations or any people.
Many people will say to me, Well you were raised Christian that's why you believe what you believe.
If I'm not wrong, I am alot older than I was back then as a child, that now I can draw upon my own conclusions. What is right for me and what is not right.
Let's for say, that if a person is raised a certain way and that has a bareing on how they are at an older age. Then why isn't Atheists still believes in God.
Most Atheist were raised in believing in God. But yet after getting older they stop believing in God.
Does that mean that Atheists are the only ones that have that right, to have a change of mind after getting older.
Just because I was raised a Christian, doesn't mean I can't at any time have a change of mind.
Maybe me not having a change of mind, is because I don't follow what is taught in those Religious organizations.
That I do my own studying and investigation. Without having man's teachings interfering in my decisions.
It's my life and death, and no one's going to tell me what I'm to do or not to do with my life and death situation.
That is between me and my God and no one else's.