How to Incite a Riot

[Mr Spinkles]

I hereby nominate @Mr Spinkles to the Trump prosecution team! By gum, this is a trial I wanna see!

Sic 'em, Spinkles!

Thanks, but I also apologize - the OP is largely excerpts from the NYT article. I provided the link but I know many people will hit a paywall so I excerpted some of the content. I should have indented or used the QUOTE feature but I was lazy and also am not very nimble using those features on my phone.

Sorry!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I have question. President Trump and his speech audience were at the south lawn of the White House, about a mile and a half away from the Capitol where the rioters were. Those that were rioting on the Capitol were not listening to his speech, nor could they have done so by any account. News sources reported that the rioters broke through the first barricades at 1:00. Trump’s speech started at about noon and last an hour and twelve minutes. At about the eighteen minutes point in the speech he said, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” Hardly inciting to violence, quite the opposite. The purportedly inciting bit about “walking down Pennsylvania Avenue” the OP mentions occurred at the very end of his speech, after the rioting had already begun.

So how did President Trump incite them by speaking purported inciting words after they were already violent?

No, you are wrong. Ashli Babbit listened to Trump’s speech and then stormed the Capitol where she was shot. It’s all on video. See below.

Trump spoke from 11:50am - 12:50pm and the rioting began at 1:10pm.

That timeline is consistent with people going straight to the Capitol after Trump’s speech and immediately attacking police. They got Trump’s message and immediately did what he suggested: go to the Capitol and “fight like hell”.

Source: Timeline: How a Trump mob stormed the US Capitol, forcing Washington into lockdown

11 a.m.
Trump’s “Save America Rally” begins first with the president's sons Eric and Donald Trump Jr., then his lawyer, Rudy Guiliani. Trump starts speaking shortly before noon at about 11:50 a.m. and says, “And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women.” Trump speaks for more than an hour. At the conclusion, thousands walk to the Capitol.

1 p.m.
Lawmakers gather for a joint session in the House of Representatives chamber to count Electoral College votes.

1:10 p.m.
Rioters begin grappling with police on the Capitol steps.
​

Here is Ashli Babbit live-streaming herself on her way to the Capitol after listening to Trump’s speech, which she refers to in the video:

Here is Ashli Babbit soon after, trying to break through a barricaded door inside the Capitol and being shot dead by Secret Service (possibly Mike Pence’s):

Ashli Babbit was a huge Trump fan. She heeded his call to show up in DC on January 6th. She listened to Trump’s speech. Then she did Just what he told her to do: go to the Capitol. Fight like hell.

Yes, Shaul, the rioters heard Trump’s speech. Your willingness to believe otherwise is sad. Will you have the integrity to admit you were wrong?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Whatever garbage source you have willingly believed has been lying to you, and you in turn passed this false rumor along as if it were fact. Period. (The alternative is against the forum rules for me to suggest.)

Here’s the minute by minute timeline @Shaul
Timeline: How One Of The Darkest Days In American History Unfolded

12:00. Trumps meandering inflammatory speech which goes on for just over an hour. There was only one time in his 1 hour and 11 minutes when the word “peaceful” come out of his mouth.
Here is the transcript of his anti-democracy spew on that day.
This is what Trump told supporters before many stormed Capitol Hill

This is a good spot to tell you about these things called cellphones and televisions, that let the presidents words be heard on the other side of the planet, before the first rioters headed for the Capital Building.

13:00 (1PM) - Counting the legal and repeatedly verified ballots begins at the Capital.

1:15PM. The first wheedling sentaors, purely out of greed and sucking up to their god-king Trump object to the counting. At the same time the remaining members of Trumps rioting insurgents leave his stage and walk toward the Capital Building (roughly 1 mile, so 1/2 an hour at a leisurely pace).

14:07 (2:07PM) - The first barricades get torn down. That’s right @Shaul , you were lied to by whatever “news” source you had been watching. I strongly suggest you never use them again.

14:16 - The first photos of the first rioters inside the Capital are tweeted out.

14:24 (2:24 p.m.) Trump tweets that Vice President "Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done." During Trump's speech earlier on the Ellipse, he also targeted Pence, saying, "We're going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. If he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our Constitution."

Etc...

etc....

etc....
This all of course ignores completely the years of lies and hate speech and inciting violence Chump has spewed since before he was elected, as well as the several months of unadultered lying about the election results, and requesting the crowd members to come to DC to fight against this “fraudulant election”. That is of course why the crowd was in the city in the first place. That is why some came armed. Even one guy (at least) who brought handcuffs (from another state) with the intent to hold congress persons hostage.

Now @Shaul - Can you say “Guilty?”.
Can you say “The punishment for treason is death?”.
Can you say “The punishment for insurrection or instigating insurrection is fines and up to 10 years in prison; as well as no chance for political office ever again?”

Spoilsport! I was ready with my sources as well. But he would not even admit that Trump lied to foment the riot. I had a feeling that when the actual timeline came out that he would scamper.

When I screw up I do admit it. Sometimes too soon. Just yesterday I was called out for an error and I admitted it but then I thought, "Was I wrong?" I went back and quoted the relevant part of the article that I had previously been merely linked by my opponent. It was his article I had assumed that he had read it. Guess what? No joy there either. Just Pfft! The magic disappearing opponent.

 

[Father Heathen]

Lmao I saw that. Bit inconvenient that basically all the hardcore Trumpers went online to brag about their violence. Now they’re upset that they’ve being called Antifa by their brethren.
Couldn’t make this stuff up, Jesus

Their cosplay/LARP session backfired so they're tossing each other under the bus.

 

[Heyo]

Quotes and analysis of what Trump said on January 6, and why it was irresponsible even if he didn’t say “go riot”.


Trump urged his supporters to ‘fight much harder’ against ‘bad people’ and ‘show strength’ at the Capitol.


“Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we’re going to have to fight much harder. …

“We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”


The president’s speech was riddled with violent imagery and calls to fight harder than before. By contrast, he made only a passing suggestion that the protest should be nonviolent, saying, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”


During Mr. Trump’s impeachment last year, one of his defenses was that the primary accusation against him — that he abused his power by withholding aid to Ukraine in an attempt to get its president to announce a corruption investigation into Mr. Biden — was not an ordinary crime, so it did not matter even if it were true. Most legal specialists said that made no difference for impeachment purposes, but in any case that argument would not be a defense here. Several laws clearly make it a crime to incite a riot or otherwise try to get another person to engage in a violent crime against property or people.


Trump told the crowd that ‘very different rules’ applied.


“When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn’t listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he’s listening to.”


Whipping up anger against Republicans who were not going along with his plan for subverting the election, like Vice President Mike Pence, Mr. Trump told the crowd that “different rules” now applied. At the most obvious level, the president was arguing that what he wanted Mr. Pence to do — reject the state-certified Electoral College results — would be legitimate, but the notion of “very different rules” applying carried broader overtones of extraordinary permission as well. (“RINO” is a term of abuse used by highly partisan Republicans against more moderate colleagues they deem to be “Republicans in Name Only.”)


Trump insinuated that Republican officials, including Pence, would endanger themselves by accepting Biden’s win.


“I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so, because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. … And I actually — I just spoke to Mike. I said: ‘Mike, that doesn’t take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing. That takes courage.’”


“I also want to thank our 13 most courageous members of the U.S. Senate, Senator Ted Cruz, Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Josh Hawley. … Senators have stepped up. We want to thank them. I actually think, though, it takes, again, more courage not to step up, and I think a lot of those people are going to find that out. And you better start looking at your leadership, because your leadership has led you down the tubes.”


Mr. Trump twice told the crowd that Republicans who did not go along with his effort to overturn the election — Mr. Pence as well as senators like Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, who did not join in the performative objections led by Mr. Hawley and Mr. Cruz — were actually the ones being courageous. In context, the president’s implication is that they were putting themselves at risk because it would be safer to go along with what he wanted. During the ensuing riot, the mob chanted “Hang Mike Pence.”


Trump suggested that he wanted his supporters to stop the certification of Biden’s electoral win, not just protest it.


“We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal. …


“You will have an illegitimate president. That is what you will have, and we can’t let that happen. These are the facts that you won’t hear from the fake news media. It’s all part of the suppression effort. They don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to talk about it. …

“We fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”


Two months after he lost the election, Mr. Trump repeatedly told his followers that they could still stop Mr. Biden from becoming president if they “fight like hell,” a formulation that suggested they act and change things, not merely raise their voices in protest.


As he dispatched his supporters into what became deadly chaos, Trump falsely told them that he would come, too.


“Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you. … We are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give — the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote, but we are going to try — give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re try — going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.”


As he sicced his supporters on Congress, Mr. Trump assured them that he would personally accompany them to the Capitol. In fact, as several of his followers and police officers were being injured or dying in the ensuing chaos, the president was watching the violence play out on television from the safety of the White House.

Source: Incitement to Riot? What Trump Told Supporters Before Mob Stormed Capitol

It seems Trump really thought he could stop the vote count by sending his angry supporters to the Capitol. Maybe he thought Pence would leave (and not return) in fear of the mob.

 

[Revoltingest]

OAN has returned to pushing the stolen election story, &
Stop The Steal. Fomenting violence for the inauguration?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

OAN has returned to pushing the stolen election story, &
Stop The Steal. Fomenting violence for the inauguration?

Yep. And their megaphone in the White House is eating it up and spewing to his violently ignorant base.
Trump falsely blames Antifa for Capitol riot

The right wing press hates all that ths USA represents, and Trump wants a coup to keep himself in power, and out of jail.
As someone made a thread on, Reality is catching up to Chump, the Republicans, and unfortunately they are dragging down the US as they fall.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I agree with those that Trump played a role of a symptom as opposed to the cause which is the real issue people ought to be focusing on.

Twighlight Hue the tragic facts suggest the President was a major cause of the insurrection against the Capitol.

There were two other recent, large pro-Trump rallies in DC: one in November, and one in December. The Proud Boys were at both. But Trump wasn’t at those rallies.

Source: Trump Supporters, Counterprotesters Clash At D.C. Rally Contesting Biden's Victory

4 Stabbed, 33 Arrested After Trump Supporters, Counterprotesters Clash In D.C.

DC Police thought January 6th would be more of the same.

What was different about January 6th?

The difference is President Trump was more involved in promoting it in the weeks leading up to it. He kept suggesting it would be “wild” and his supporters should “fight to the death”.

DC Police thought they would be containing a protest. Big mistake. This was not a protest. Trump incited a mob to attack the Capitol and they did ... with helmets, bats, hockey sticks, crutches, flagpoles, bear mace, etc.

The President is a cause, he is responsible and Republicans are saying this more forcefully now that their own lives were put at risk:

 

[Shaul]

No, you are wrong. Ashli Babbit listened to Trump’s speech and then stormed the Capitol where she was shot. It’s all on video. See below.

Trump spoke from 11:50am - 12:50pm and the rioting began at 1:10pm.

That timeline is consistent with people going straight to the Capitol after Trump’s speech and immediately attacking police. They got Trump’s message and immediately did what he suggested: go to the Capitol and “fight like hell”.

Source: Timeline: How a Trump mob stormed the US Capitol, forcing Washington into lockdown

11 a.m.
Trump’s “Save America Rally” begins first with the president's sons Eric and Donald Trump Jr., then his lawyer, Rudy Guiliani. Trump starts speaking shortly before noon at about 11:50 a.m. and says, “And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women.” Trump speaks for more than an hour. At the conclusion, thousands walk to the Capitol.

1 p.m.
Lawmakers gather for a joint session in the House of Representatives chamber to count Electoral College votes.

1:10 p.m.
Rioters begin grappling with police on the Capitol steps.
​

Here is Ashli Babbit live-streaming herself on her way to the Capitol after listening to Trump’s speech, which she refers to in the video:

Here is Ashli Babbit soon after, trying to break through a barricaded door inside the Capitol and being shot dead by Secret Service (possibly Mike Pence’s):

Ashli Babbit was a huge Trump fan. She heeded his call to show up in DC on January 6th. She listened to Trump’s speech. Then she did Just what he told her to do: go to the Capitol. Fight like hell.

Yes, Shaul, the rioters heard Trump’s speech. Your willingness to believe otherwise is sad. Will you have the integrity to admit you were wrong?

Sorry, but no.

Here is a link to a tweet by a Washington Post reporter showing the violence beginning with the first barricades overturned. https://mobile.twitter.com/rebtanhs/status/1346879406581624833
There is a time stamp on the Twitter post. The time is recorded as “11:00”. But that is the time at the location of the person who recorded the Tweet. The time was 1:00 Washington time.

1:00 not 1:10 as you incorrect timeline has it.

President Trump’s Speech was one hour and twelve minutes. Here is a link which clearly shows its length,

The speech was aired on CSPAN-2 starting the 12:00 noon

Not 11:50, 12:00 noon.

An hour and twelve minutes after 12 noon marks the speech end at 1:12.

Ashli Babbit was not shot in the initial violence. She was, unfortunately, caught up in later violence. But the violence had started before Trump speech ended and before the purported inciting portion which was spoken around 1:10. Ten minutes after the violence had begun. The violence was in full swing before those that had listened to President Trump’s speech arrived.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Sorry, but no.

Here is a link to a tweet by a Washington Post reporter showing the violence beginning with the first barricades overturned. https://mobile.twitter.com/rebtanhs/status/1346879406581624833
There is a time stamp on the Twitter post. The time is recorded as “11:00”. But that is the time at the location of the person who recorded the Tweet. The time was 1:00 Washington time.

1:00 not 1:10 as you incorrect timeline has it.

President Trump’s Speech was one hour and twelve minutes. Here is a link which clearly shows its length,

The speech was aired on CSPAN-2 starting the 12:00 noon

Not 11:50, 12:00 noon.

An hour and twelve minutes after 12 noon marks the speech end at 1:12.

Ashli Babbit was not shot in the initial violence. She was, unfortunately, caught up in later violence. But the violence had started before Trump speech ended and before the purported inciting portion which was spoken around 1:10. Ten minutes after the violence had begun. The violence was in full swing before those that had listened to President Trump’s speech arrived.

For Pete’s sake Shaul ... pay attention.

The video you showed is people at the back of the Capitol at 1:00. The timeline I showed said rioters were on the Capitol steps at 1:10. There is no inconsistency there.

Yes you’re right that some violence may have started before Trump had 100% finished his speech. Therefore ...? It didn’t calm down after his speech, did it? Let’s be generous and say he didn’t incite the “initial” violence, ignoring everything Trump said for weeks leading up to that. He still incited more violence.

If he hadn’t, Ashli Babbit wouldn’t have marched from his speech and through a barricaded door just footsteps from lawmakers, and shot by Secret Service.