How to prove God.

[an anarchist]

But you do not do you, you believe god is in every religion but Pagan ones, I thought we had established that?

I suppose I should include the asterisk *except pagan ones* whenever I say I believe in all religions.

 

[Justanatheist]

I suppose I should include the asterisk *except pagan ones* whenever I say I believe in all religions.

Or just stop saying ALL religions then people will understand, perhaps MOST religions.

 

[an anarchist]

Or just stop saying ALL religions then people will understand, perhaps MOST religions.

To be honest, I feel so strongly opposed to paganism in particular, I suppose in my mind I haven’t been considering it a religion. I’ll have to think about it, out of respect for practicing pagans, as they are still people.. thanks!

 

[Justanatheist]

To be honest, I feel so strongly opposed to paganism in particular, I suppose in my mind I haven’t been considering it a religion. I’ll have to think about it, out of respect for practicing pagans, as they are still people.. thanks!

Why so opposed to Paganism?

 

[an anarchist]

Why so opposed to Paganism?

I made a new thread exposing, id’ how to tag people or I would’ve tagged you

 

[Spirit of Light]

I made a new thread exposing, id’ how to tag people or I would’ve tagged you

Just write @ before the name of the person you wish to tag no space between @ and the name

 

[leroy]

Then it's a misleading title to say "fine tuning" as "tuning" implies adjustments. We see creationists often try to get terms accepted with definitions used by creationists so they can be smuggled in later. If you can smuggle in your notion that the universe was "tuned" well that implies an adjustment, and how did the adjustments get made, and by what? It's your idea of god, right?

If not, then let's drop the FT as being misleading, confusing, and open to fraud, and use more reliable words, OK?

I am familiar with FT and the misuse of this Idea by Behe and Demski. We know that the genetics is complicated enough to allow for complex coordinated things to develop. This is explained with pleiotropy where a single gene has an effect on multiple phenotypic traits.

My question was also in what you posted recently saying you accepted that natural processes are responsible for evolution but include more than just random mutations. Now you are bringing a useless argument of FT switching back containing the fantasy supernatural as the cause of evolution.

Please clear up your position.

I am using the FT argument in the context of cosmology.

for example if gravity would have been say 1% stronger the universe would have collapsed in a black hole, (there would have been no stars, no planets, no molecules no atoms etc) and therefore no life and no evolution.

 

[Brian2]

If you believe a God exists it means you're making a judgment it exists and could be mistaken. If a God actually makes contact with a person to a degree they get a verifiable answer, then person will know a God exists.

So which is it?

It's faith.

Again, evidence allows a person to make a valid conclusion that an idea is true, but it's still not knowledge. And the absence of adequate evidence means a person has no reason to decide a given idea is true or even likely true. If the idea is contrary to what is known about reality, like a supernatural claim, then a person needs really good evidence before they can think it's plausible. Theists can't offer this level of evidence.

You sound like a mind closed to the supernatural possibilities unless really strong evidence is given.

 

[Justanatheist]

I am using the FT argument in the context of cosmology.

for example if gravity would have been say 1% stronger the universe would have collapsed in a black hole, (there would have been no stars, no planets, no molecules no atoms etc) and therefore no life and no evolution.

Can you tell me what are the conditions required for life to exist?

 

[Brian2]

For me it's a simple matter of saying that I will accept the evidence.

I mean, I am skeptical that there is an elephant in my driveway right now, but since there is an easily testable way to tell, I'm happy to say, "Well, I admit that there is a chance after all that there is an elephant in my driveway after all, so if it's that important I'll go and check."

Likewise, if I can say a prayer and get confirmation of the existence of God, I'm perfectly willing to do it. Since I figure God could provide me with indisputable evidence, and since I'm perfectly happy to believe in God if I did get such evidence, and since getting this evidence allegedly is a very easy thing to do, I'm happy to do it. Of course, it's always failed.

What sort of prayer do you pray. "Lord if you want me to believe then give me indisputable evidence of your existence. I'll believe in you if it does not mean having faith."
I hope He does give you something that you cannot deny. I have heard that it happens. You will still need to accept it in faith however.

 

[sayak83]

I am a literalist. Let me explain how I reconcile my Christianity with my belief in Hinduism. Baha’u’llah, the founder of Baha’i, taught a syncretic philosophy in which he declared a many prophets of the past to be the authoritative. This included himself, Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, and Krishna. I believe that Baha’u’llah was a prophet of God, and if he believes Krishna is too then I am to believe. Before my discovery of Baha’ism however, I read the Bhagavad Gita, it had a profound effect on my life and helped lift me out of dire circumstances. I interpret Brahman as the God I worship. When I read the Gita, I felt the presence of God and experienced His wisdom. Through experience, I authenticated Krishna.
I believe that the Bible teaches what all other religions teach, and that is God is Love is love is love.

So you are a Baha'i?

 

[Wildswanderer]

There are versions?

There's what science explains about how things are with facts and an objective methodology, and educated people learn these various subjects from experts.

We don't watch Lord of the Rings and believe this describes some reality somewhere.

Fantasy often explains true reality better than scientists theories. There's no facts in science, BTW.

 

[Justanatheist]

Fantasy often explains true reality better than scientists theories. There's no facts in science, BTW.

The boiling point of water in normal atmospheric conditions is 100 degrees Celsius, do you want some more scientific facts?

 

[Wildswanderer]

The boiling point of water in normal atmospheric conditions is 100 degrees Celsius, do you want some more scientific facts?

Science (from the Latin word scientia, meaning "knowledge")[1] is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

What scientists do is collect evidence that supports or does not support our predictions. They don't deal in facts

 

[Justanatheist]

Science (from the Latin word scientia, meaning "knowledge")[1] is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

What scientists do is collect evidence that supports or does not support our predictions. They don't deal in facts

Science often deals in facts, the boiling point of water being just one of them, many facts are often used to support a theory.

 

[McBell]

There are versions?

Work an eight hour shift in an Alzheimer's unit and get back to us.....

 

[F1fan]

Meantime -- gorillas do not play instruments, read music, and compose music with instruments and words. Also, they don't look for clothes and coffins for suitable burials. Oh, and neither do cockroaches.

Neither did humans for well over 150,000 years until they they settled in permanent villages, and were able to create surplus so they had time to develop the arts.

But if there's ever a situation where humans die off I'm sure you will feel good for those creatures who do survive which will likely be cockroaches. They must be God's chosen.

 

[F1fan]

I am not wasting time thinking, since I don't even think about it.

More thinking, less believing.

God did not do that to anyone because God dies not create a child, its human parents do. If they do not want to risk having a child with a genetic defect then they should opt out of having children, just like if I don't want to risk getting hit by a car, I should not go out bike riding.

Oh boy. So you might as well not eat to avoid the risk of choking. But you have to eat to avoid the risk of starvation. You are trapped. What can you do except cry and pray?

God CAN alter an irrevocable fate but He never alters it because it would not be in anyone's best interest.

Almost as if your idea of god doesn't exist. What point is there to believe in a god that does nothing?

And let me remind you that just because God cannot be proven to exist, that does not mean that God does not exist, since proof is NOT what makes God exist. God either exists or not, and God could exist and not provide any proof (although God did provide evidence). This is simple logic.

But it does mean that you, and anyone else, CANNOT say what God is, or can or can't do, or refer to any gods as if they actually exist, etc. But you do this anyway as if you are a hypocrite. You admit we cannot prove a God exists but you feel free to explain what God is. That's what we call "full of ****".

You can say thou do not believe in God and you do not know if God exists but as soon as you assert that God is a fantasy you are making an argument from ignorance.

When I say someone's who claims they experience a God is actually fantasizing about it because what they describe falls into the category of fantasy. They are never enlightened, not have found some sudden level of wisdom and intuition, or any sort of spiritual depth, etc. They are just repeating dogma they've learned from other similar theists.

These testimonies are not impressive. I use Occam's Razor and put forward the most likely explanation. You yourself should agree since you admit no one can prove a God exists. That would include the believer to him/herself.

No I am referring to the reality that God exists. Please note that I am not asserting that because I cannot prove it, but I believe it to be the reality.

You can;'t refer to a God existing as a reality and then admit it cannot be proven. You can say the same thing about Elves or hobbits. There's no reality of these imaginary characters outside of fantasy and imagination. So again, you trap yourself. More crying and prayer for you.

You need to learn how to stop trapping yourself between competing ideas.

God hears all our calls, but God is not a short order cook so we do not get everything we want.

Here you go again, you can't have it both ways. Either a God exists or it doesn't. You can't keep admitting that we cannot know a God exists and then tell all about God. This makes you look foolish and terribly confused.

There usually is no answer for people who pray for something specific, although sometimes the answer comes to those who can recognize it. Moreover, we do not always get what we want, but sometimes we get something better, although it does not always come to us right away. I can think if many examples of that.

The God people pray to is supposed to answer. That it doesn't either means it doesn't exist, or they are wrong about what they think the God is, which could be a cruel sociopath. Again, you describe how theists trap themselves with hope, and prayer, and dig themselves deeper into despair instead of taking charge of their own mental state of being.

I don't mind a person seeking solace in times of serious heartbreak, it's truly a time when a person is not equipped to cope and get through a day. But I do not like people who approach every mundane day of life as if it is a crisis that a God has to soothe. I don't see that approach as healthy.

 

[F1fan]

Work an eight hour shift in an Alzheimer's unit and get back to us.....

An 8 minute experience on RF and it can bee seen.

 

[F1fan]

Life is difficult now. I believe it will not always be difficult, but rather it will be truly enjoyable. I believe that/ Now perhaps you know that Jesus was asked (whether you believe the Bible or not, but it is there about his interview with Pilate before his death) by Pilate, "What is truth"? And that is when Jesus stopped talking to him. Because if someone doesn't know what truth is, then he may not find, discover, or perceive the truth when it's there.

I'm more concerned about those who believe they found the truth and pound others with what they believe. These discussions are useful in how thinkers can challenge believers. and expose how the believers tend to have a truth that doesn't quite measure up.