How to teach the Dharma? Are there dangers in teaching Dharma?

[Sridharma]

I'm looking for any and all teachings anywhere in all of Buddhism about teaching the Dharma.

Are there any teaching in the Pali canon or in the Mahayana or from any teachers throughout history or any teachers today, that covers any field of idea that the Dharma should not be taught to certain people? Perhaps to those who are not interested, or those who are inimical, or those who are not prepared or qualified somehow.

Are there any dangers to be aware of in teaching the Dharma? It has come to my attention that there are a number of ways to turn people off to the Buddha, Dharma and/or Sangha that would be harmful to self and others. Such as:

1. Being overly preachy and dogmatic.
2. Presenting oneself as a practicing representative of the Dharma or a particular school and then demonstrating bad behaviors that negatively affect others view of the Buddha, Dharma or Sangha.
3. Raising children in an environment where they learn to be inimical to the Dharma, such as forcing it on them or having too strict or irrational of religious regulations.
4. Suggestions, anything to add?

I'm especially interested in teachings & techniques for teaching / transmitting the Dharma to those who are not already interested in it. Some categories of such persons:

1. Those who are inimical and hostile. (who and why?)
2. Those who have been burned by someone or by too much exposure to preachy dogmatic religions, so that anything "spiritual" brings a bad taste and resistance (techniques to overcome this are of much interest to me).
3. Those who are attached to non-Dharmic things and aims. Lust, pleasure, entertainment, wealth, power, reputation, defensiveness...
4. Suggestions, anything to add?

Some good teachings that cover 'teaching the Dharma' that I've already come across:

1. Anguttara Nikaya 3.184, which is phenomenal, one of my favorite teachings.
2. While not Buddha Dharma, Bhagavad Gita 18.67 has something to say on the subject.
3. I believe the the Vimalakīrti Nirdeśa Sūtra has some good stuff on teaching.
4. This story about Ryokan. Extremely profound, also one of my favorites.

There was a Japanese Zen Master called Ryokan. One day, Ryokan heard his family complain that his nephew was wasting money on prostitutes. Ryokan went to visit his nephew, whom he had not seen for many years.
His nephew invited him to stay one night. All night long Ryokan sat in meditation. As he was preparing to leave the next morning, he asked his nephew, “I must be getting old, my hand shakes so. Will you help me tie the string of my straw sandal?”
The nephew helped him.
Ryokan replied, “Thank you. A man gets older and feebler day by day. Take good care of yourself.”
Then Ryokan left, without mentioning a word about prostitutes or the complaints of the family. But from that day on, his nephew truly reformed, and stopped spending money on prostitutes and stopped dissipating his life.

 

[Breathe]

My suggestions are:


Don't act like your Buddhist interpretation is the be-all-and-end-all of Buddhism.
Without bringing your own biases into it and rubbing them off.
Without Buddhism being so heavily scripture focused (there are some people who turn Buddhism almost Abrahamic).
Don't preach to those who aren't interested.
Don't tell those who didn't ask.
Know when to stop.
Accept different opinions.
Actions first, words later.


Most importantly: with a smile.

 

[Engyo]

Lotus Sutra, Chapter 10, the Teacher of the Dharma

 

[Sridharma]

Very nice suggestions Odion, much appreciated.
Thank you for the reference Engyo.
This is exactly what I'm looking for.

I wonder if I should post this question in some of the other forums like the main root for all Dharmic religions, or in one of the more specific sub forums in Buddhism.
What forum here has the most active people?
I have A Lot of questions I'd like to get some expert wisdom help with looking at and talking over.
Is there a different web site for Dharma discussions that is THE place to go for Dharma discussions? Or is this forum the most active place for Buddhists on the Net. I would especially really appreciate being able to discuss certain things with genuinely realized master(s).

 

[Breathe]

This is the only site I really know for discussing a wide range of religions, and I think it's one of the best around. I don't know of any sites with genuinely realized masters though.

I wonder if I should post this question in some of the other forums like the main root for all Dharmic religions, or in one of the more specific sub forums in Buddhism.

Could you clarify what you mean by this please?

 

[Sridharma]

Don't preach to those who aren't interested.
Don't tell those who didn't ask.

There is a lot to explore in these two lines.

For instance, right now I know someone who is struggling with her friend who has some character issues that cause him to inflict disturbing behavior on people and it's clear it causes her a fair bit of stress, frustration etc.

He inflicts the same stressful behavior on me, as well as just about everyone else. What would ordinarily cause me deep distress and ultimately wound-like internal formations from his behavior's, I can transform the experience's with Buddha Dharma techniques so the result is positive evolution of my consciousness. So peace and happiness results from his harmful behavior toward me. But for our friend, I see she is just suffering from the experience and I'm sure is developing internal formations that will reduce the quality of her life.

I get the feeling this friend may be able to accept, understand and benefit from certain Dharma teachings to transform the troubling situations or at least reduce the stress they cause.

But I'm not totally sure about her, if she will really be able to understand and accept. My skillfulness in communication and transmitting the instructions is very poor. Even just putting some written instructions from a Dharma master in front of a person and having them read it takes some skillfulness for it to work out well. Even then just reading something is not likely to be much good by itself

How can I tell if the person will be able to accept and understand?
Are there any dangers in failing with a person? The only thing I can see right off, which concerns me quite a bit is that I might 'turn a person off' from the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. If I come off as preachy, or even just foolish and goofy, or any number of other negative conveyances someone may develop adverseness to the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. This, to me, is the worst thing that could ever happen to a person. So if I cause that to happen? The prospect of it stirs up concern.

The fact about me is: I have very poor social skills. I don't know how to be cool or entertaining. I'm not skilled at hitting it off with people. I don't know how to make small talk. I'm socially awkward and clumsy. Somehow I find I put people off, but I don't know how, though my intentions are generally always positive.
I'm not saying any of this in some boo-hoo sort of self-deprecating way. I have very good self-esteem and am very happy. I just know my weaknesses as well as strengths.

The point is: I see others who if they were able to understand and apply the Dharma it would be for there great and lasting benefit and happiness. But with my social handicap I don't want to cause the opposite effect and turn people off to the Dharma.

So how can I develop skillfulness in transmitting the Dharma?
I know the most important requisite is that one must have a genuine degree of realization and accomplishment of Dharma, of Buddha mind.
I need to meet some genuine highly accomplished Bodhisattva's or Arahants or skillful venerable's in the Dharma. I need good teachers.
Also I figure one can take classes in communication and public speaking, etc.

I'm in no way concerned for my self over my own self image, reputation etc. as far as looking foolish or religious or whatever in talking with people about Dharma. Only that I might turn a person away from the Dharma.

This brings up another area of question I've been contemplating over.
Concern for one's reputation. Not for one's own self-centered interest. But for the sake of the benefit of others. There is good reason to be concerned over maintaining a positive reputation and image in the perception of others, for the sake of transmitting the Dharma, for the sake of others.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm looking for any and all teachings anywhere in all of Buddhism about teaching the Dharma.

Are there any teaching in the Pali canon or in the Mahayana or from any teachers throughout history or any teachers today, that covers any field of idea that the Dharma should not be taught to certain people? Perhaps to those who are not interested, or those who are inimical, or those who are not prepared or qualified somehow.

Better luck next time.

Are there any dangers to be aware of in teaching the Dharma? It has come to my attention that there are a number of ways to turn people off to the Buddha, Dharma and/or Sangha that would be harmful to self and others. Such as:

1. Being overly preachy and dogmatic.
2. Presenting oneself as a practicing representative of the Dharma or a particular school and then demonstrating bad behaviors that negatively affect others view of the Buddha, Dharma or Sangha.
3. Raising children in an environment where they learn to be inimical to the Dharma, such as forcing it on them or having too strict or irrational of religious regulations.
4. Suggestions, anything to add?


I'm especially interested in teachings & techniques for teaching / transmitting the Dharma to those who are not already interested in it. Some categories of such persons:

1. Those who are inimical and hostile. (who and why?)
2. Those who have been burned by someone or by too much exposure to preachy dogmatic religions, so that anything "spiritual" brings a bad taste and resistance (techniques to overcome this are of much interest to me).
3. Those who are attached to non-Dharmic things and aims. Lust, pleasure, entertainment, wealth, power, reputation, defensiveness...
4. Suggestions, anything to add?

Being overly preachy and dogmatic and representing any school or dharmac teaching while being a low life in the process and raising kids to give Buddha the royal finger is swallowing the whole fish. Being ***** over all the bad behavior is just fine as well.

Dharma as a matter of fact is definitely dangerous to the point where you will spit out blood from your raw throat from screaming abject terror and wishing you were never born in this hellhole. I'm serious here. Good teachers are bulldogs in stressing that. Don't bother being serious in practice unless your prepared and ready to meet face to face the worst nightmares and terrors that life can ever offer you.

Some good teachings that cover 'teaching the Dharma' that I've already come across:

1. Anguttara Nikaya 3.184, which is phenomenal, one of my favorite teachings.
2. While not Buddha Dharma, Bhagavad Gita 18.67 has something to say on the subject.
3. I believe the the Vimalakīrti Nirdeśa Sūtra has some good stuff on teaching.
4. This story about Ryokan. Extremely profound, also one of my favorites.

There was a Japanese Zen Master called Ryokan. One day, Ryokan heard his family complain that his nephew was wasting money on prostitutes. Ryokan went to visit his nephew, whom he had not seen for many years.
His nephew invited him to stay one night. All night long Ryokan sat in meditation. As he was preparing to leave the next morning, he asked his nephew, “I must be getting old, my hand shakes so. Will you help me tie the string of my straw sandal?”
The nephew helped him.
Ryokan replied, “Thank you. A man gets older and feebler day by day. Take good care of yourself.”
Then Ryokan left, without mentioning a word about prostitutes or the complaints of the family. But from that day on, his nephew truly reformed, and stopped spending money on prostitutes and stopped dissipating his life.

Lesson one here. The dharma is not taught nor do you learn it.

Take care.

 

[Breathe]

I get the feeling this friend may be able to accept, understand and benefit from certain Dharma teachings to transform the troubling situations or at least reduce the stress they cause.

What do you have in mind?

But I'm not totally sure about her, if she will really be able to understand and accept.

I think it depends a lot on what you are planning on "teaching" her regarding the Dharma. Example, encouraging her to develop contemplation and loving-kindness, I doubt she will be too bothered about. Telling her to recite Namo Amitabha Buddha or take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha will not end well.

Do you know if she has faith of her own? Has she asked you for your advice?

The only thing I can see right off, which concerns me quite a bit is that I might 'turn a person off' from the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. If I come off as preachy, or even just foolish and goofy, or any number of other negative conveyances someone may develop adverseness to the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. This, to me, is the worst thing that could ever happen to a person.

You forgot the most important thing: you can lose a friend, because they feel like you're not accepting their difference in opinion and you're using their shortcomings to preach at them.

Coming across as foolish, even turning someone off the Dharma is less severe than losing a friend after all.

I know the most important requisite is that one must have a genuine degree of realization and accomplishment of Dharma, of Buddha mind.
I need to meet some genuine highly accomplished Bodhisattva's or Arahants or skillful venerable's in the Dharma. I need good teachers.
Also I figure one can take classes in communication and public speaking, etc.

Yes, you could do that. Only, how do you know who is an arhat and who is a bodhisattva? How do you know they are not making it up, or falsely claiming such things?

In my opinion, the best way to share the Dharma is by being; live the Dharma, that the Dharma may reach those who need it. To teach the Dharma with words is nice, but words can appear cheap and insincere. If they ask, then tell. If they don't, then show.

There is good reason to be concerned over maintaining a positive reputation and image in the perception of others, for the sake of transmitting the Dharma, for the sake of others.

Although I understand where you are coming from, I humbly disagree that one should be concerned as it runs the risk of one developing or strengthening an ego: it's too easy for one to maintain a positive image and become more focused on that than the message of the Dharma.

Of course, not like I'm saying that folks should go out into the world teaching the Dharma in sack-cloth or naked with only an alms bowl and matted hair, lol. However, naturally one should not focus too much upon their appearance. Are they clean, with neat hair, and suitably dressed? That's all that matters.


You didn't answer my other message though, my friend. I was curious what you meant above. If you can answer briefly in the next message, I'd be very grateful since I wasn't sure what was meant.

 

[Sridharma]

I wonder if I should post this question in some of the other forums like the main root for all Dharmic religions, or in one of the more specific sub forums in Buddhism.

Could you clarify what you mean by this please?

In the forum 1 step up from here:
Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) / Dharmic
or in one of the vehicle specific sub-forums under this one, such as Mahayana

Basically I'm wondering which of the forums here has the most people.

My verbosity:ignore: tends to ward people away. I seem to be either too quiet or when I do talk I'm too verbose. My interest is to be accurate and complete and to avoid misunderstandings that so often arise with verbal communication.

 

[Breathe]

Dharmic would be more open, but that's open to Sikhs, Jains, and Hindus as well as Buddhists which may or may not be what you are after.


I wish I could offer some suggestions on what to do, but I'm more or less the same. Either I waffle or I'm abrupt.

 

[Sridharma]

Thank you everyone for your consideration and time, I will reply to each post asap.

Let's look at it this way.
How can we help people awaken to the view that actualizing Buddha Dharma values in their life will result in deep, genuine, lasting happiness?

Cultivating renunciation. A balanced and realistic renunciation in a gradual and tolerable way. Seeing directly the fact of the danger and destructiveness of certain things a person clings to, harbors, cherishes.
Seeing directly the fact that these things cause suffering.
In reality these things cause suffering, but due to some mystifying process of the mind, one thinks they bring happiness.

Along with that delusion, one has adapted in some way where one enjoys and cherishes miserable and harmful things.
How can a person be helped to see the truth?

How can one help someone else develop the faith and motivation to take up Bhavana, the various practices that result in the evolution and development of the Buddha mind?
Cultivating Loving Kindness, Compassion, Selfless Joy and Equanimity as the highest priority, the most important value. Where Loving Kindness is The Way to be and think. To hold this as the most dear and cherished.

Kshanti as a core principle that one would not compromise. If I'm hurt by someone else I won't retaliate, would never act in revenge. I don't even want to think harmful thoughts in return. What reason is there to be mad at someone who hurts me? To get mad and let my mind get all disturbed does nothing but hurts me. Someone hurts me, and then I turn around and hurt myself by getting mad at them? How silly.
So how can one help another come to this view and value for them-self. I know of some people who could never imagine thinking in this way. To be like this is a show of weakness, they think it makes you a target, that to get respect it's necessary for others to fear you and know that if they hurt you you will retaliate, that this is necessary to protect oneself.
On some level that's even true. In some places in the world (downtown, in the city I live near) the people are so harsh and brutal.

How can a person come to see that telling the truth is imperative. That game playing, tricking, deceiving, cheating, hustling, etc. really brings a person down and causes so much suffering for others and worse for oneself?
Someone I know appears to gain a lot by deception and lies, by creating elaborate frauds and deceptions within circles of friends, with the aim to make his own self-centered agenda succeed. I can see for myself that it provides him with significant wealth and power. But it corrupts his heart and mind, harms others, generates terrible evil merit that will crush him later. But all he sees is the short term profit he gains by his evil ways.
The Dharma practice of honesty is vital.

Mindfulness. Is as vital as blood and breath. But it is taken for granted and totally neglected, many barely even understand what it means.

Certainly it is key-critical that one be a living example oneself of the positive effects of renunciation and Bhavana. The thing is I'm a work in progress and still have many issues. What a person tends to see foremost is what stands out the most, which is the noise and issues, the pain and problems that still afflict me.

In my experience the practice of Buddha Dharma has phenomenal positive benefits. It's really miraculous. It brings so much joy and peace. It solves so many problems. The thing is: what people often see in me is the part that still has issues. My weaknesses and shortcoming stand out. Especially in regards to social awkwardness, weak social skills etc. So there is this tendency to associate the aspects in a person that are outstanding and peculiar, unique and specific. (sorry I don't feel like I'm finding the most clear way to convey this thing I'm seeing, so bear with me).

One sees: ah, he really is into this Buddhism; ah, well see he is really kind of a weird guy, he doesn't get the girls, he doesn't have cool stuff and lots of charisma and power, etc. He has so many issues, personal issues. He really seems to be struggling.
So one tends to draw so many logical conclusions.
I don't want to be like him, there is no way I'm going to risk even trying to do or implement any of the things he stands by, the various aspects of Buddha Dharma, Bhavana, etc.

Along with myself as an example that would turn a person away from the Dharma, there is this phenomena:
This Buddha Dharma is going to impact my "happiness", the things I'm attached to that I feel make me happy and get me the stuff I want and where I want to be in the world.
(There is the methods of the Maha-Siddha's, but how to actualize that in a real genuine way and not just screw around pretending?)

I see there is a failure on the part of many people where they don't make the connection between the sufferings, difficulties, stresses, etc. in their life and so many of the Akushala aspects of their life. People don't see the klesha's and samyojana's and associate them with the suffering in their life. To me this is one of the meanings of ignorance, avidya.

 

[chinu]

This is a very good Thread.
But i dont know why this is posted in DIR forums.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Sridharma]

Discuss Individual Religions forums? What would be a better place to post? Is this not a busy and active forum? This looked to me like the top root forum for Buddhism in general.

Maybe I don't understand how this forum structure works here?

This is a very good Thread.
But i dont know why this is posted in DIR forums.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[LuisDantas]

I believe that Chinu is either suggesting that some of the Debates areas would allow for wider discussion, or that it could fit in the more general Dharmic Religions DIR. Of course, he alone knows.

 

[Sridharma]

What I really want to know is where is the best place to post my question's and concern's and such to attract the most people and even more importantly: the most enlightened people, to reply and help me? I really need to talk to some truly wise masters about some things that have been of great interest to me for quite some time.
Also every day I encounter quite a few general questions that I'd like to discuss with some intelligent sincere people. Some questions keep coming up for me. Where is the best place?

And, I've been wondering: is it proper etiquette to post the same post in a few different forums (like dhammawheel.com & newbuddhist.com) with the intention to meet the most people or most importantly to not miss that special someone who would have a really good insight to share.

 

[Breathe]

Buddhism DIR (here) for Buddhists, Buddhism->Mahayana for those who follow Mahayana, etc.
Putting it in Dharma DIR allows Sikhs, Hindus, Jains, and Buddhists to comment. If that's what you want, put it there, if only Buddhists, here.


If I may humbly offer my opinion, I think you are going to make life difficult for yourself searching for the most enlightened people online to reply and help you, and looking to discuss with the most intelligent people. In my experience, even a fool can have something worthwhile to say. If you keep it open to anyone, you can see different opinions that may help you--of course, that's your choice, but I don't know how many people here would be willing to say "I'm enlightened, intelligent and sincere, what's up?" for example.

It's bad etiquette to post the same post in a few different forums: it's often considered as a form of spam. If you change the words, not so bad, but if it's identical it'd be like spam.

 

[chinu]

I believe that Chinu is either suggesting that some of the Debates areas would allow for wider discussion, or that it could fit in the more general Dharmic Religions DIR. Of course, he alone knows.

You are right Luis ji.
Your given profile Infraction is vailed till 03-11-2011.





.
_/\_
Chinu
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/members/luisdantas-16218.html http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/members/england-my-lionheart-14154.html

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I think a danger of teaching dharma is to teach it as though there is only one real approach to dharma.

 

[Tathagata]

The Buddha: "Preach it, make it known, establish it, open it, minutely explain it, and make it clear-until they, when others start vain doctrines, shall be able to vanquish and refute them, and so to spread the wonderworking truth abroad. I shall not die until the pure religion of truth shall have become successful, prosperous, widespread, and popular in all its full extent-until, in a word, it shall have been well proclaimed among men!" [Mahaparinibbana Sutta]



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