How vs Actuality

[ChristineM]

Does your money disappear from your bank account when the cleaning woman unplugs the server to use the socket for the vacuum cleaner?

Eh? Do you know much about server power supplies, banking procedure's, data backups?

 

[Heyo]

Eh? Do you know much about server power supplies, banking procedure's, data backups?

I didn't mean that literally (I thought you knew the anecdote).
But if you think that the electrons in the server are your money, does your money vanish if the server loses power somehow?

 

[ChristineM]

I didn't mean that literally (I thought you knew the anecdote).
But if you think that the electrons in the server are your money, does your money vanish if the server loses power somehow?

Yes i knew. That's why i gave my sarcastic reply.

No i do not think electrons are my money but representations of my money that allow me to draw and spend my money or keep it under the mattress

 

[Stevicus]

I didn't mean that literally (I thought you knew the anecdote).
But if you think that the electrons in the server are your money, does your money vanish if the server loses power somehow?

I suppose it could happen if the entire system breaks down. If debit cards no longer worked and computers could no longer process transactions, they'd probably have to go back to more primitive forms of banking. It would be rather chaotic for a while.

If the backups fail, banks may still have hard copies of people's account data, so account holders may not necessarily lose all their money. But it would still just be a number on a piece of paper, which is no more meaningful or substantial than digital information on a server.

 

[Kooky]

Debt, like money, is a social construct. I'm not under the illusion that it is real.
(Iow, I will repay my debts because I accept the social construct.)

Social constructs are not something any particular individual needs to "accept".
If there is a critical mass of people who act as if they were real, then they are.

Argueing that social constructions are "illusions" is little more than an appeal to emotion - they are no more or less illusory than anything else going on in our human existence.

 

[Kooky]

If the backups fail, banks may still have hard copies of people's account data, so account holders may not necessarily lose all their money. But it would still just be a number on a piece of paper, which is no more meaningful or substantial than digital information on a server.

By which you certainly mean, "extremely meaningful to a whole lot of people", correct?

 

[Heyo]

If there is a critical mass of people who act as if they were real, then they are.

Is Allah real in Saudi Arabia? Is Genesis real in the bible belt?

 

[Kooky]

Is Allah real in Saudi Arabia? Is Genesis real in the bible belt?

Genesis is a passage in the Bible, an actual for real book that everybody can read.
Allah is not a social construction, but Islam is, and is definitely a real social phenomenon.

Does our conversation here exist, or is it an illusion?

 

[Heyo]

Genesis is a passage in the Bible, an actual for real book that everybody can read.
Allah is not a social construction, but Islam is, and is definitely a real social phenomenon.

Does our conversation here exist, or is it an illusion?

What are the physical properties of our conversation? It's mass, it's extension and position in space, it's energy?

 

[Kooky]

What are the physical properties of our conversation? It's mass, it's extension and position in space, it's energy?

You tell me. Are these words real, or do they only exist in our heads? If the latter, then how can words carry meaning or achieve any sort of reality? How could anybody read a book when words aren't real?

 

[Heyo]

You tell me. Are these words real, or do they only exist in our heads? If the latter, then how can words carry meaning or achieve any sort of reality? How could anybody read a book when words aren't real?

I think we have very different definition of reality. Here is mine:
5 Planes of Existence

 

[Mister Emu]

Yes I think does. I can choose to give someone my car in exchange for a few leaves. But that doesn’t mean money grows on trees.

Do you value the leaves and have a transaction rate to accept them for services and good you offer for sale? You may, depending on the rarity of the leaves, soon find yourself in a surplus of leaves and paucity of anything else, but it will be a currency in dealing with you.

Imagine a restaurant that decides to give away food in exchange for blades of grass. That is wonderful. The can feed the hungry, but they won’t “make any money” doing that.

You're intentionally negating the valuation of the proposed currency by the restaurant when calling it giving away. If they have a transaction rate and charge blades of grass and for food then within that restaurant they are currency.

 

[Kooky]

I think we have very different definition of reality. Here is mine:
5 Planes of Existence

You should have lead with this, instead of assuming that I am familiar with your ideosyncratic terminology.

Are you aware that you are contradicting your own definition of reality by calling money an "illusion"?

 

[Stevicus]

By which you certainly mean, "extremely meaningful to a whole lot of people", correct?

Well, yes, under the circumstances. Of course.

 

[Heyo]

You should have lead with this, instead of assuming that I am familiar with your ideosyncratic terminology.

I have posted that link so often that I've lost track of who I informed about it.
And I think it isn't an uncommon concept.

Are you aware that you are contradicting your own definition of reality by calling money an "illusion"?

I never did. What I said was that whoever thinks of money as real is a victim of an illusion. Money is a construct, not an illusion.

 

[Kooky]

I never did. What I said was that whoever thinks of money as real is a victim of an illusion. Money is a construct, not an illusion.

And so are our words. Are they, therefore, not real, as per your terminology?

 

[Heyo]

And so are our words. Are they, therefore, not real, as per your terminology?

Yes. They exist but they are not real (have physical properties like mass, energy and dimensionality).

 

[Kooky]

Yes. They exist but they are not real (have physical properties like mass, energy and dimensionality).

But they do have physical properties.
Words on a page consist of physical ink and physical paper, words on an Internet forum are electron configurations and shaped liquid crystals, words of speech are sound waves travelling through physical air.

 

[Heyo]

But they do have physical properties.
Words on a page consist of physical ink and physical paper, words on an Internet forum are electron configurations and shaped liquid crystals, words of speech are sound waves travelling through physical air.

Yes, words have physical representations. But the representations aren't the words. You see that in the fact that the representation changes.

 

[Kooky]

Yes, words have physical representations. But the representations aren't the words. You see that in the fact that the representation changes.

You call them "representations", but what do they represent?
A representation is, after all, by definition a representation of something.