Huckabee defends Duggars over Teenage Molestation Accusations

[Nietzsche]

You can certainly think so.

In my opinion, they raise important points that I felt important to consider.

They took steps that they believed to be right for their children. The Department of Human/Social Services was engaged to ascertain the safety of their home & cleared the home as a safe place for their children to remain. A second important point, regardless as to anyone's personal objections to the Duggars is that the records surfaced were surfaced illegally. The Duggars may have legit cause to pursue legal action for the unsealing of these records.

That is bad, yes. But know what's worse? That the Duggar family was treated with kid-gloves for a crime that, if it happened to anyone else, would've been rightly drug through the mud & thrown into jail by the legal system and their children taken away for their own well-being.

This crux of the issue for me remains the blantant disregard for the victims. Huckabee & the Duggars appear to be the only people who genuinely give a damn about the well being of the victims and for their rights, which have been violated.

If they cared about the victims we wouldn't be having this discussion, because Josh would've had the book thrown at him.

You might feel different if you were in Duggars' shoes.

Had this occurred to any family without the wealth & power of the Duggars, the individuals would be rightfully serving time for being a sexual predator and conspiring to cover-up crimes against children.

 

[dawny0826]

That is bad, yes. But know what's worse? That the Duggar family was treated with kid-gloves for a crime that, if it happened to anyone else, would've been rightly drug through the mud & thrown into jail by the legal system and their children taken away for their own well-being.

How are you substantiating this? The family did go to the police and the police didn't press charges. The Duggars describe this in the interview that you apparently watched and found disgusting. What evidence do you have to support that the Duggars were given preferential treatment? You're free to your opinion, but, what evidence supports this?

If you take issue with the legal system - that's an entirely different subject to discuss. When the events occurred, law enforcement did not arrest and take legal action. When the records were unsealed, an investigation was conducted, but the statute of limitations had passed and Duggar, legally, could not be arrested.

If they cared about the victims we wouldn't be having this discussion, because Josh would've had the book thrown at him.

What did the victims actually want? Did you watch the interview with the Duggar sisters?

Had this occurred to any family without the wealth & power of the Duggars, the individuals would be rightfully serving time for being a sexual predator and conspiring to cover-up crimes against children.

I'm not sure that you're correct, given the fact that Josh was a minor himself when the offenses occurred.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You might feel different if you were in Duggars' shoes.

I doubt it. I would have wanted to get him help, I would be concerned for the victims and any potential future victims, and I wouldn't have tried to sweep it under the rug and pretend everything is ok when it so obviously is not.

 

[Nietzsche]

How are you substantiating this? The family did go to the police and the police didn't press charges. The Duggars describe this in the interview that you apparently watched and found disgusting. What evidence do you have to support that the Duggars were given preferential treatment? You're free to your opinion, but, what evidence supports this?

Look up any other occurrence of this, where a 14/15yr old is brought up on charges of molestation. Here's one;

15yr old accused..

In jail. Without bond.

If you take issue with the legal system - that's an entirely different subject to discuss. When the events occurred, law enforcement did not arrest and take legal action. When the records were unsealed, an investigation was conducted, but the statute of limitations had passed and Duggar, legally, could not be arrested.

And? I am not arguing this from a purely legalistic standpoint. I am aware that legally speaking he is free & clear. My argument is that he should not be, because his crimes were not properly prosecuted, again due to what I see as being unfairly privileged.

What did the victims actually want? Did you watch the interview with the Duggar sisters?

I wonder what they would've said after the event. But we'll never know.

I'm not sure that you're correct, given the fact that Josh was a minor himself when the offenses occurred.

Juveniles(especially as one nears mid-late teens) accused of sex crimes can(and often are) tried as adults due to the nature of the crime and the self-evident 'wrongness' of such an act.

 

[dawny0826]

I doubt it. I would have wanted to get him help, I would be concerned for the victims and any potential future victims, and I wouldn't have tried to sweep it under the rug and pretend everything is ok when it so obviously is not.

The Duggars claim that they did seek help for their son. The records were sealed after the home was deemed safe by local government for the children to remain and according to two of the victims - things were okay until their story was maliciously exploited by the media.

 

[dawny0826]

Look up any other occurrence of this, where a 14/15yr old is brought up on charges of molestation. Here's one;

15yr old accused..

In jail. Without bond.



And? I am not arguing this from a purely legalistic standpoint. I am aware that legally speaking he is free & clear. My argument is that he should not be, because his crimes were not properly prosecuted, again due to what I see as being unfairly privileged.




I wonder what they would've said after the event. But we'll never know.



Juveniles(especially as one nears mid-late teens) accused of sex crimes can(and often are) tried as adults due to the nature of the crime and the self-evident 'wrongness' of such an act.

If you've problems with the legal system and legal injustice in regards to Duggar, I consider your concerns valid. But, the media is pointing blame squarely on the parents and Josh Duggar himself, who at the time was a minor. Per the Duggars, when they brought their son to the police, they didn't know what would happen to him, but, felt it a crucial step to take.

Why is the media not questioning law enforcement and local government. Again, the Department of Human/Social Services deemed the home safe & considered matters closed before the records were sealed. Involved parties has sought counseling and were determined to move on with their lives.

Whether right or wrong, this family was allowed to put this behind them, legally. What good has this unearthing of that which they've tried to move on from done for those that were impacted by Duggars actions?

 

[Shad]

The Duggars claim that they did seek help for their son. The records were sealed after the home was deemed safe by local government for the children to remain and according to two of the victims - things were okay until their story was maliciously exploited by the media.

The records are only sealed due to a court trial. He was 18 when the report to the police was made thus was an adult. Since there was no trial the records were not sealed. By skirting around the law system they exposed themselves to this very scandal. Your point was refuted by the city attorney. The Duggars also denied access to their home thus there was no investigation in the home.

City Attorney Refutes Duggars: Release Of Police Report Was Totally Legal

 

[Shad]

If you've problems with the legal system and legal injustice in regards to Duggar, I consider your concerns valid. But, the media is pointing blame squarely on the parents and Josh Duggar himself, who at the time was a minor. Per the Duggars, when they brought their son to the police, they didn't know what would happen to him, but, felt it a crucial step to take.

3 years before the crucial step makes it not so crucial doesn't it.

Why is the media not questioning law enforcement and local government. Again, the Department of Human/Social Services deemed the home safe & considered matters closed before the records were sealed. Involved parties has sought counseling and were determined to move on with their lives.

It has already asked these questions. The result was that the officer himself comprised and a friend of the family. The officer in question is currently in jail for /drum roll child pornography. The department was denied access thus could not deem anything was safe.

Whether right or wrong, this family was allowed to put this behind them, legally. What good has this unearthing of that which they've tried to move on from done for those that were impacted by Duggars actions?

Likewise the media was legally allowed to post records that were not sealed.

What good? Lets see... A family that babbles on about family values has little of the family values many, regardless of religion, would actually call values. It shows that they are hypocrites. It also exposed their cult for what it truly is

 

[gsa]

If you've problems with the legal system and legal injustice in regards to Duggar, I consider your concerns valid. But, the media is pointing blame squarely on the parents and Josh Duggar himself, who at the time was a minor. Per the Duggars, when they brought their son to the police, they didn't know what would happen to him, but, felt it a crucial step to take.

Why is the media not questioning law enforcement and local government. Again, the Department of Human/Social Services deemed the home safe & considered matters closed before the records were sealed. Involved parties has sought counseling and were determined to move on with their lives.

Whether right or wrong, this family was allowed to put this behind them, legally. What good has this unearthing of that which they've tried to move on from done for those that were impacted by Duggars actions?

Except that the police officer they took their son to see (who was later convicted of possessing child pornography) provided a statement to In Touch that they misled him when discussing Josh's crimes, claiming it happened once when it in fact happened three times with five victims. We also have no idea what they said about the touching, perhaps simply stating that he touched his sister who was a year older than him on her clothed breasts. That would be very misleading and might lead authorities not to investigate, particularly if they are also told (falsely or at least misleadingly) that he received "counseling," by which they meant the sham cult Christian fundamentalist counseling by a man who was later forced to resign for sexual molestation of several females.

The Arkansas DHS should absolutely be investigated for its failures here, and elsewhere. But don't pretend that the Duggars are without blemish.

 

[Nietzsche]

If you've problems with the legal system and legal injustice in regards to Duggar, I consider your concerns valid. But, the media is pointing blame squarely on the parents and Josh Duggar himself, who at the time was a minor.

Because Josh is the one who broke the law, and his parents have done everything to ensure he didn't have to answer for what happened.

Per the Duggars, when they brought their son to the police, they didn't know what would happen to him, but, felt it a crucial step to take.

That isn't exactly how it happened. CPS was denied access, and even when they(the Duggars) went to the police it was handled by a friend of theirs on the police force, who himself has been recently charged with child pornography. I do not think it's possible to have a situation that better defines the term "fishy".

Why is the media not questioning law enforcement and local government.

They are & have been, and as you've stated(and I've agreed with) legally there is nothing anyone can do. Legally(to the best of my knowledge anyway, there may be some other facet of this that could theoretically be brought up but I'm not certain), it is impossible for Josh to be brought to answer for his crimes.

Again, the Department of Human/Social Services deemed the home safe & considered matters closed before the records were sealed. Involved parties has sought counseling and were determined to move on with their lives.

If memory serves that was done only after they refused to allow CPS to investigate.

Whether right or wrong, this family was allowed to put this behind them, legally. What good has this unearthing of that which they've tried to move on from done for those that were impacted by Duggars actions?

What good will it do? I'm not sure. But at least insofar as the court of public opinion, Josh is being brought to task for his crimes and his parents for their failure.

 

[SomeRandom]

At least two of his sisters had undergone therapy and have put this behind them for people with a political agenda to unearth sealed juvenile documents and exploit their victimization.

Few people seem to care at all as to what they think, want and what happened from their own perspectives. At least two of his victims do not view him as a child molester and have stated that the damage that the media has done has been far more dehumanizing and victimizing than the molestation itself.

Though I understand the disdain for Fox News, Megyn Kelly did sit with two of the victims and interviewed them. I do care far more about their perspective than that of the typical media outlet.

From my perspective, this was a political slam against the family due to the Duggars' socially conservative politics. There is nothing that convinces me that this was a genuine effort on part of media to protect or support the victims of molestation. The media has unearthed sealed documents from their past. What has been shared as evidence that Josh's transgressions continue?

With two children of my own and one in the oven, believe me, the well being of children is of utmost concern to me. I've seen nothing to suggest that this man is abusing his children.

[/QUOTE]

Whilst I would never even think of telling a fellow survivor how to feel about suffering sexual abuse, I am still rather curious as to the two young victims in question. It is confusing for a person who is abused by someone they love and trust. On the one hand he IS a child molester. There's no two ways around it. If you touch a pre pubescent child for the purpose of sexual gratification you are by definition a child molester. No amount of semantics says otherwise. On the other hand the sisters would still love him as a brother and perhaps feel a familial instinct to try to defend him. It's entirely possible that's what they've been taught to do either by Josh or even (God forbid) their parents. This reaction and even family pressure is common for incest abuse. Then of course when a child does experience this they might even think it's normal. There is a vast myriad of ways a victim may react to abuse and it's not always seen by said victim as a negative. (Though still the action of said abuse is wrong.) Society sometimes has a hard time wrapping their heads around this concept, which can adversely affect the victim.

As for the media, well they aren't trained mental health professionals, but they can sniff out a story. And it's a bad one for the Duggars (regardless of their political ideology.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Ugh, the interview with the parents is disgusting.

You watched it?
Strong your stomach must be!

 

[Nietzsche]

You watched it?
Strong your stomach must be!

It's one long spiel on how they're the real victims, and how Josh just made a 'mistake', a mistake that happens to be one of the most unforgivable actions a person can take. I'm not exactly a font of sympathy to begin with, but child predators are low, low, low on my list. Somewhere beneath ebola cells.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's one long spiel on how they're the real victims, and how Josh just made a 'mistake', a mistake that happens to be one of the most unforgivable actions a person can take. I'm not exactly a font of sympathy to begin with, but child predators are low, low, low on my list. Somewhere beneath ebola cells.

I've seen worse 'mistakes'.
My ex-computer support guy was caught with chopped up people in coolers in his car trunk.
He'd killed more than those two.
(He's a serial killer currently residing in prison for the rest of his life.)
He also beat a young girl so badly that she's severely disabled for the rest of her life....unable to sit up or even feed herself.

Note: I didn't know these things before hiring him.

 

[Nietzsche]

I've seen worse 'mistakes'.
My ex-computer support guy was caught with chopped up people in coolers in his car trunk.
He'd killed more than those two.
(He's a serial killer currently residing in prison for the rest of his life.)
He also beat a young girl so badly that she's severely disabled for the rest of her life....unable to sit up or even feed herself.

Note: I didn't know these things before hiring him.

Did he own a woodchipper?

 

[Revoltingest]

Did he own a woodchipper?

Kitchen utensils, I believe.

But for your viewing pleasure.....

 

[dawny0826]

Except that the police officer they took their son to see (who was later convicted of possessing child pornography) provided a statement to In Touch that they misled him when discussing Josh's crimes, claiming it happened once when it in fact happened three times with five victims. We also have no idea what they said about the touching, perhaps simply stating that he touched his sister who was a year older than him on her clothed breasts. That would be very misleading and might lead authorities not to investigate, particularly if they are also told (falsely or at least misleadingly) that he received "counseling," by which they meant the sham cult Christian fundamentalist counseling by a man who was later forced to resign for sexual molestation of several females.

The Arkansas DHS should absolutely be investigated for its failures here, and elsewhere. But don't pretend that the Duggars are without blemish.

I've not projected anywhere on this thread that the Duggars are without blemish. I've been crystal clear that my greatest concern is that the media has unearthed records that the general public was not privy to and there's been miniscule concern as to how this impacts the victims.

Much that I've read about what the Duggars did and didn't do conflicts with the what the Duggars themselves have claimed to have done. Understanding the politics surrounding this, I'm inclined to consider the Duggar's perspective. In their own interview, they claim that both Josh and the victims did receive counseling. Jessa & Jill claim that they received counseling, which helped them to put the ordeal behind them.

 

[dawny0826]

3 years before the crucial step makes it not so crucial doesn't it.



It has already asked these questions. The result was that the officer himself comprised and a friend of the family. The officer in question is currently in jail for /drum roll child pornography. The department was denied access thus could not deem anything was safe.



Likewise the media was legally allowed to post records that were not sealed.

What good? Lets see... A family that babbles on about family values has little of the family values many, regardless of religion, would actually call values. It shows that they are hypocrites. It also exposed their cult for what it truly is

As a Mom to a 13 year old, I can't tell you in complete confidence how I would handle such a situation, so, I'm less inclined to pass judgement. Additionally, as a Christian, I also understand how valuable resources through the faith based community can be to support a family during such a struggle. The Duggars mentioned during their interview, that they weren't entirely sure what to do and did the best that they knew how.

I'm not positive that my first impulse would be to turn my child in to the authorities, particularly if my son or daughter confided in me and was seeking help.

I find it reasonable to consider their perspective. With all due respect, how does your personal disdain towards the family demonstrate that the victims deserved to be exploited?

 

[dawny0826]

Whilst I would never even think of telling a fellow survivor how to feel about suffering sexual abuse, I am still rather curious as to the two young victims in question. It is confusing for a person who is abused by someone they love and trust. On the one hand he IS a child molester. There's no two ways around it. If you touch a pre pubescent child for the purpose of sexual gratification you are by definition a child molester. No amount of semantics says otherwise. On the other hand the sisters would still love him as a brother and perhaps feel a familial instinct to try to defend him. It's entirely possible that's what they've been taught to do either by Josh or even (God forbid) their parents. This reaction and even family pressure is common for incest abuse. Then of course when a child does experience this they might even think it's normal. There is a vast myriad of ways a victim may react to abuse and it's not always seen by said victim as a negative. (Though still the action of said abuse is wrong.) Society sometimes has a hard time wrapping their heads around this concept, which can adversely affect the victim.

As for the media, well they aren't trained mental health professionals, but they can sniff out a story. And it's a bad one for the Duggars (regardless of their political ideology.)

Did you watch the interview with Jill & Jessa? I'm just curious.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions. I admit that I don't know enough about the family to make such claims about their circumstances. Is it possible? Sure.

There's also the possibility that the family has been truthful.

I think I'll remain of the opinion that this "controversy" has been politically-focused to knock down a family that represents conservative politics. As a woman, as a mother, I'm disappointed that a political agenda has been of greater value than the expressed viewpoint of those who were victimized.

 

[dawny0826]

The records are only sealed due to a court trial. He was 18 when the report to the police was made thus was an adult. Since there was no trial the records were not sealed. By skirting around the law system they exposed themselves to this very scandal. Your point was refuted by the city attorney. The Duggars also denied access to their home thus there was no investigation in the home.

City Attorney Refutes Duggars: Release Of Police Report Was Totally Legal

Whatever the truth may be regarding the records - I don't accept that they willfully exposed themselves to this. This doesn't, for me, validate the negative impact that the "scandal" has on the victims.