Human supremacy

[wjb2008]

Simple question really (and one of my favorite topics in general). Are humans above all other forms of life?

I say no. I'd like to point out that humans are the ONLY species on the planet that will kill its own kind for a reason other than survival. People say humans have souls and free wills and blah blah blah. Who says animals don't? How can we tell? Maybe a dog isn't capable of understanding General Relativity, but I've met an extraordinarily small number of humans who can intercept a squirrel on the run. So what do y'all think?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Simple question really (and one of my favorite topics in general). Are humans above all other forms of life? I say no. I'd like to point out that humans are the ONLY species on the planet that will kill its own kind for a reason other than survival.

No, chimps, for example, can be remarkable 'human' in this regard.

As for the original question, and to the limited extent that it is answerable in any meaningful way, my answer is "yes".

 

[Tawn]

I'd like to point out that humans are the ONLY species on the planet that will kill its own kind for a reason other than survival.

My cat often dragged mice or birds into the house.. it certainly never ate them. I know thats not its own kind but.. there are stories of chimps or some kind of money species which kills others from different 'packs'..
Im not sure your statement is in fact true.

 

[Sunstone]

The question makes no sense --- or too much sense. I think the answer entirely depends on how you define terms like "supremacy", "superiority", and so forth.

 

[jewscout]

I'd like to point out that humans are the ONLY species on the planet that will kill its own kind for a reason other than survival

i'd like to quote the great philosopher/thinker Dennis Leary by saying
"What gives mankind the right to kill at will?
i'll tell you what. Guns. Big f***** guns w/ giant f***** bullets pal!"

 

[Sunstone]

Jane Goodall documents instances of chimpanzees killing for reasons that have nothing to do with survival.

 

[wjb2008]

Thank you. I'd never heard that before about chimps, but does that not bring humans and chimps into even more level fields. Killing other species... even many die-hard Christians don't have a problem with that. Killing members of other packs can be solved fairly easily. If two packs are close enough to kill each other, then they are impinging on territory, space, and breeding rights. All animals need room to live. Other than that... that chimp thing really is a set back...

 

[Druidus]

Yes, Chimpanzees have wars.

I believe in an equality (in spirit) between all species of plant and animal. As I've said before, superiority is a foolish human invention, a nonexistent imagination.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have a cat that will kill mice, birds, other cats, and in one case, a small dog, just because they got in his way.

 

[Draka]

I think the examples of other species killing each other or others are mostly for territorial or threat reasons. This most animals are guilty of and therefore places humans in the same category of animal. If we were "superior" one would think we would rise above such things and pettiness. I think the main thing is that humans will kill other animals for "sport". While other animals will kill for protection of their territory or for food or even as offerings to others, humans will go out and hunt for the "sport" of it. While some may kill an animal and use it for food there are too many in my personal opinion that find the prospect of killing an animal that is defenseless against our guns and hunting methods as fun and a challenge. What challenge is it to point a gun and shoot a deer who's only recourse is to run? How fun is it to hang the head of your innocent victim on your living room wall as a "trophy"? I find this sickening...it is one thing to kill for food and survival, it is quite another to kill just because one can.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I believe in an equality (in spirit) between all species of plant and animal.

Great. That suggests a perfect division of labor: you commune with the grab grass and gophers and I'll read Shakespeare, listen to Mozart, applaud ballet, and marvel at science.

 

[wjb2008]

What about those who hunt/fish for fun and sport, but properly respect the deceased animal, don't take the head, and eat all the meat?

 

[wjb2008]

Great. That suggests a perfect division of labor: you commune with the grab grass and gophers and I'll read Shakespeare, listen to Mozart, applaud ballet, and marvel at science.

Oh dear... that's kind of harsh. Humans I believe undoubtedly have a greater capacity for creativity and invention than most animals. We are adaptable. Examine the human body for a moment and you will see that we possess no natural weapon other than intelligence. Our minds are our claws. They just happen to beat the snot out of any set of claws that ever existed. But that doesn't mean that we are superior as beings.

 

[Draka]

I have to ask...did you NEED the meat? Did you have to get it in that manner? You say fun and sport...but is it just something to do? I don't believe in the culling of a species for "their own good" or "safety". If you hunt for the purpose of getting food to eat and show respect for the taking of a life then fine...if you go out because you FEEL like killing something and then since you did you take it home and decide to eat it...well, that's just different to me.

btw..aside from that point, I hope you realize I agree with you...humans are not innately superior just because we have opposable thumbs or any other reason.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh dear... that's kind of harsh.

How so? My friend is communing with a spiritual equal, which should certainly be viewed as a good thing, and I'm availing myself of the remarkable creative capacity of my species. Where does 'harsh' come in?

Our minds are our claws. They just happen to beat the snot out of any set of claws that ever existed. But that doesn't mean that we are superior as beings.

Our minds are, if anything, transcendant claws. To the extent that on can meaningfully talk of superiority, I believe us to be superior.

 

[Sunstone]

I've heard the average warm blooded species lasts 2.5 million years. We've been around perhaps 200,000 years, which is not even 10% of the average. In terms of duration as a species, the jury is still out on Homo sapiens.

 

[Mister Emu]

Draka, were you suggesting that no other animal kills for sport? Sorry if this was wrong.

Have you ever seen the movie The Ghost and the Darkness it is based on the true story of two african man-eating lions that killed for no other reason than they could.

Their bodies are at the Chicago (Museum of Natural History I believe, not sure about it though).

 

[Draka]

Draka, were you suggesting that no other animal kills for sport? Sorry if this was wrong.

Have you ever seen the movie The Ghost and the Darkness it is based on the true story of two african man-eating lions that killed for no other reason than they could.

Their bodies are at the Chicago (Museum of Natural History I believe, not sure about it though).

Nope, never even heard of it. Will have to look into it...sounds interesting.

 

[wjb2008]

Draka:
Personally, I can't stand the hunt. Too damn much work for me. But I know a man who once a year goes out to the high mountains of Colorado with his buddy and his rifle, hikes twelve miles up the side of the mountain, tracks down a herd of elk, finds his animal, and shoots it. Last year he spent two and a half days tracking a single animal. He was in the freezing cold with nothing but a bivvy bag to sleep in. An elk is a big damn animal, and it took four shots to take the elk down (first time it ever took more than one). He brought the meat home and ate it with his family. He did not by any means need the meat, but he loved the hunt, the process..

Deut. 32.8:
Who says animals don't discuss supremacy and such? We can't prove or show that they don't. We say other animals don't communicate, but then how the hell do wolves hunt in organized packs? The harshness comes in the sarcasm, O sarcastic one.

 

[Druidus]

Great. That suggests a perfect division of labor: you commune with the grab grass and gophers and I'll read Shakespeare, listen to Mozart, applaud ballet, and marvel at science.

Where, in my post, did I say I was planning to "commune with the grab grass and gophers"? I merely stated that I feel that there is no superiority inherent in mere being. One can have minor "superiorities: such as in intellectual or physical prowess, but I do not think this makes a certain species inherently superior. I like all the things you suggested (excluding ballet. I've never really liked it).

How so? My friend is communing with a spiritual equal, which should certainly be viewed as a good thing,

Again with the "communing". What has this got to do anything?

and I'm availing myself of the remarkable creative capacity of my species.

I never said we did not have such a capacity.