Humankind was not created immortal

[Awoon]

Romans 5: 12 is recorded as Humankind bringing death into the world through sin.
Didn't Paul know of or ever read Genesis 3:22?
God drove Humankind out of the G of E before he could eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, then put Cherubims and a flaming sword to show the way to the T of L.

Did Paul ever read Genesis 3:22?
Or did he just create a story about sin and death to undermine the writer of Genesis 3?

 

[te_lanus]

Didn't God tell Adam & Eve that because they ate of the "fruit" they will die, and that the earth is cursed because of them

 

[Awoon]

Didn't God tell Adam & Eve that because they ate of the "fruit" they will die, and that the earth is cursed because of them

Yep but Sin didn't cause any death on Humankind. Eating of the tree of K of G/E gave Humankind the knowledge he would die. The Earth being cursed has nothing to do with the OP.

 

[2ndpillar]

Romans 5: 12 is recorded as Humankind bringing death into the world through sin.
Didn't Paul know of or ever read Genesis 3:22?
God drove Humankind out of the G of E before he could eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, then put Cherubims and a flaming sword to show the way to the T of L.

Did Paul ever read Genesis 3:22?
Or did he just create a story about sin and death to undermine the writer of Genesis 3?

Dear A,
If one is to depend on Paul for insight, they will be sorely disappointed, and be part of the "many" on a path to "destruction". Paul's babble, is a foundation for the church of babel, which is a church of confusion, and depository of the traditions of men.

 

[Awoon]

Dear A,
If one is to depend on Paul for insight, they will be sorely disappointed, and be part of the "many" on a path to "destruction". Paul's babble, is a foundation for the church of babel, which is a church of confusion, and depository of the traditions of men.

I just take what the Bible gives. People who claim the Bible is an historical record of events, have to also claim the Bible is an historical contradiction of events.

 

[Politesse]

Romans 5: 12 is recorded as Humankind bringing death into the world through sin.
Didn't Paul know of or ever read Genesis 3:22?
God drove Humankind out of the G of E before he could eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, then put Cherubims and a flaming sword to show the way to the T of L.

Did Paul ever read Genesis 3:22?
Or did he just create a story about sin and death to undermine the writer of Genesis 3?

Is it natural death he's referring to, though? His letter to the Romans uses the concept of death a lot, but I think it might be in more the sense of the coming Apocalypse and Jesus' promise of "everlasting" life or death. The wages of sin are the "real" death, the permanent death, rather than the one which ends in redemption and resurrection.

 

[Politesse]

I only take what the Bible gives....

What does it matter whether there is actually an Apocalypse or not? The author, Paul, obviously believed that Jesus was coming back, so it is likely what he was talking about.

He says the following later in the letter: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." It doesn't make sense if he's talking about natural death; people don't die in the natural sense every time they sin, nor are any more prone to dying. One can in fact prolong one's life through greed... but at the expense of the soul. And I think it is clear enough that ones eternal destination is what Paul is concerned about here, not simple mortality.

 

[2ndpillar]

Is it natural death he's referring to, though? His letter to the Romans uses the concept of death a lot, but I think it might be in more the sense of the coming Apocalypse and Jesus' promise of "everlasting" life or death. The wages of sin are the "real" death, the permanent death, rather than the one which ends in redemption and resurrection.

Dear Pol,
You "Apocalypse" comes before the millennium, which proceeds the last judgment, and the "lake of fire" by 1000 years. All the dead are "resurrected" at the last judgment. Some proceed to the lake of fire, and some take a different route. The wages of sin are sickness of body mind and Spirit, ending in burial of one's body. One needs to repent and produce good fruit with respect to that repentance before they die, or it is simply a little late. Once dead, one is in the grave, and repentance, and production of good fruit is most likely 6' out of reach.

 

[Politesse]

Dear Pol,
You "Apocalypse" comes before the millennium, which proceeds the last judgment, and the "lake of fire" by 1000 years. All the dead are "resurrected" at the last judgment. Some proceed to the lake of fire, and some take a different route. The wages of sin are sickness of body mind and Spirit, ending in burial of one's body. One needs to repent and produce good fruit with respect to that repentance before they die, or it is simply a little late. Once dead, one is in the grave, and repentance, and production of good fruit is most likely 6' out of reach.

That's lovely, but I don't see what a bunch of 19th century End Times theology has to do with Paul's letters.

 

[Nietzsche]

Didn't God tell Adam & Eve that because they ate of the "fruit" they will die, and that the earth is cursed because of them

There were two trees. The Tree of Knowledge & the Tree of Life. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge, and then were kicked out of Eden before we could eat of the Tree of Life & become in the words of God "Like We are".

 

[Awoon]

There were two trees. The Tree of Knowledge & the Tree of Life. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge, and then were kicked out of Eden before we could eat of the Tree of Life & become in the words of God "Like We are".

Yep, according to the Genesis story, Humankind chose Knowledge over life. Or, instead of sticking around and living at home with the parents, ( in the protected environment of the nest, ie garden) the children moved out of the house to claim their place in the world as we all have seemed to have done. LOL LOL

 

[catch22]

There was no command not to eat of the tree of life. In fact, God says you can eat from any tree, just not the tree of knowledge. Most likely they had eaten from the tree of life prior.

The key here is denying physical immortality in light of having spiritual death. They had both spiritual and physical immortality in the garden in the state God made them and it. Afterward, they willingly gave up one (spiritual), and God mercifully removed the other (physical). Yes, it was merciful to limit the number of man's days in his sin.

Maybe you seem to think as they did: that this was ever about physical death. Therein lies the deception from the snake. It was never about physical death.

I don't know what you're confused about. It's obvious.

 

[Awoon]

There was no command not to eat of the tree of life. In fact, God says you can eat from any tree, just not the tree of knowledge. Most likely they had eaten from the tree of life prior.

The key here is denying physical immortality in light of having spiritual death. They had both spiritual and physical immortality in the garden in the state God made them and it. Afterward, they willingly gave up one (spiritual), and God mercifully removed the other (physical). Yes, it was merciful to limit the number of man's days in his sin.

Maybe you seem to think as they did: that this was ever about physical death. Therein lies the deception from the snake. It was never about physical death.

I don't know what you're confused about. It's obvious.

I don't know why 21st century Christians try to interpret Prose Poetry.

 

[catch22]

Is it your goal to be entirely random, or did you have a specific thing you were trying to accomplish?

 

[Awoon]

I told the meaning of the Story. Get it,It's an ancient story about Humans moving out from Mommy and Daddy. If you cant see that, I cant help you. Keep believing in sin and hell and the devil and demons and Gods and whatever can be made up by the western mind.

 

[catch22]

I told the meaning of the Story. Get it,It's an ancient story about Humans moving out from Mommy and Daddy. If you cant see that, I cant help you. Keep believing in sin and hell and the devil and demons and Gods and whatever can be made up by the western mind.

I see, you meant for post #12 to be the conclusion of the original post. I did not necessarily draw that conclusion, thanks for clearing it up.

 

[moorea944]

Romans 5: 12 is recorded as Humankind bringing death into the world through sin.
Didn't Paul know of or ever read Genesis 3:22?
God drove Humankind out of the G of E before he could eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, then put Cherubims and a flaming sword to show the way to the T of L.

Did Paul ever read Genesis 3:22?
Or did he just create a story about sin and death to undermine the writer of Genesis 3?

I"m trying to figure out what your point is. Both are right. Are you saying one is different from the other? Dont really know what your trying to say here....

 

[Pegg]

Romans 5: 12 is recorded as Humankind bringing death into the world through sin.
Didn't Paul know of or ever read Genesis 3:22?
God drove Humankind out of the G of E before he could eat of the Tree of Life and live forever, then put Cherubims and a flaming sword to show the way to the T of L.

Did Paul ever read Genesis 3:22?
Or did he just create a story about sin and death to undermine the writer of Genesis 3?

It was Adams sin which got them banished from Eden in the first place. So its true that sin is what brought death into the world.
If Adam had not sinned, he would not have been banished.

 

[Awoon]

I"m trying to figure out what your point is. Both are right. Are you saying one is different from the other? Dont really know what your trying to say here....

Humankind is created mortal in Genesis. Humankind becomes mortal in Romans after some sin.

 

[Awoon]

It was Adams sin which got them banished from Eden in the first place. So its true that sin is what brought death into the world.
If Adam had not sinned, he would not have been banished.

Get off the "sin" kick. No sin is mentioned in Genesis 3. Sin isn't mentioned until Genesis 4. Why do Christians LOVE SIN so much?