Yeah fair enough.
You just seemed to be disagreeing with mpt-matthew when he said, "this isnt evolution, just a mutation".
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Humans are still evolving...
- Thread starter FDRC2014
- Start date
Yeah fair enough.
You just seemed to be disagreeing with mpt-matthew when he said, "this isnt evolution, just a mutation".
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Control implies intelligence.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
No it doesn't. The carburetor in a car controls the flow of gas to the engine. The moon controls the tides. Carburetors and moons are not intelligent.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Man made devices display intelligence.
The moon affects the ocean.
Your display does not show intelligence....ha ha ha....
But really....were you serious?
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AfterGlow
Invisible Puffle
I have to agree with Thief on this, to me control implies an intelligence. Non-intelligent objects can be causes of phenomena (like tides) or the facilitators of intelligently controlled events (like the carburetor's role in an intelligently designed engine), but they lack the power to control events as they please, they are just there.
To Android, natural selection doesn't control anything, it's simply the name we give to the process of less well suited individuals succumbing to detrimental facets of their surroundings more readily than other members of a given cohort, resulting in genes that lend a selective advantage becoming, gradually, more prevalent within the population.
To Android, natural selection doesn't control anything, it's simply the name we give to the process of less well suited individuals succumbing to detrimental facets of their surroundings more readily than other members of a given cohort, resulting in genes that lend a selective advantage becoming, gradually, more prevalent within the population.
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Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
This is purely a question of what the verb "control" means. When its meaning is synonymous with "regulate", it just means "to exercise a restraining or directing influence" (Merriam-Webster), regardless of intentions, desires, or volition. Both you and Thief are wrong. You are thinking of it only in one of its other senses--"to operate". There was nothing wrong with Android's original language.
I would say that natural selection is one thing that controls the direction of evolution. There is nothing volitional implied in Android's usage.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
That a device has been set in motion and works without 'you' there to watch it move....
does not lead to evidence... a lack of intelligence.
However....that a series of events follow one another in such extreme repetition....like a science experiment ...with controls....
would indicate intelligence.
Noaidi
slow walker
Thief
Rogue Theologian
If you're the God setting things into motion...yes.
Noaidi
slow walker
Ah. The 'if' you mentioned is the key, here.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Let's run with that.
If you were God.....
After the creation you would declare all of your handiwork good.
(pat on the back)
You would then realize....you are alone.
No one heard you say...'I am'.
Creating another 'you'...as spirit...is no more than a mirror image.
You end up talking to yourself.
There would be nothing else to work with other than the physical substance
expanding in every direction.
So you pick a piece of it...suitable.
No extreme temperatures....no excessive wind....no violent reactions...
You pick Earth.
And into this you install life.
After a while, you pick a form ...suitable...and install...a soul.
Evolution is only God's hand...tweaking the basic design.
AfterGlow
Invisible Puffle
Except of course that natural selection does not restrain or direct anything.
Except of course that evolution has no direction in which to be controlled.
Wombat
Active Member
The only objection I have to your scenario is that you have God in a timeline with "After" creation and "pick a piece of it" and "install life" and "tweaking the basic design"...........no.......I don't think so.
God, timeless/alpha-omega, acts in what we could only describe as 'Simultaneity'... God says "Be" and (from Gods perspective) it all is...there iis nothing to unfold or "tweak"...
Evolution is law/principle set to auto...like gravity...God need not adjust the ascent or the descent.
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
It's relevant because you were making a big deal about mans ability to make and use tools.
and this video shows that man isn't the only one able to do so
"If" my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle!
...As the facts suggest otherwise, we can forget about the "what if's".
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zenzero
Its only a Label
Friends,
It is a very interesting discussion here; however having no background in the scientific part of the discussion can only share the personal understanding of life.
Consciousness is what life is all about and as we know that matter is all about vibrations and so any mutation of genetic changes that happens are all changes in vibrations and this change happens due to the present consolidation of the total vibrations in a given environment or time/space zone.
The above is totally hypothetical but would appreciate feedback.
Love & rgds
It is a very interesting discussion here; however having no background in the scientific part of the discussion can only share the personal understanding of life.
Consciousness is what life is all about and as we know that matter is all about vibrations and so any mutation of genetic changes that happens are all changes in vibrations and this change happens due to the present consolidation of the total vibrations in a given environment or time/space zone.
The above is totally hypothetical but would appreciate feedback.
Love & rgds
Thief
Rogue Theologian
The only objection I have to your scenario is that you have God in a timeline with "After" creation and "pick a piece of it" and "install life" and "tweaking the basic design"...........no.......I don't think so.
God, timeless/alpha-omega, acts in what we could only describe as 'Simultaneity'... God says "Be" and (from Gods perspective) it all is...there iis nothing to unfold or "tweak"...
Evolution is law/principle set to auto...like gravity...God need not adjust the ascent or the descent.
So...Wombat...
Linear existence...you and I....one moment to another...
God is Spirit.
If He moves from one moment to another...it is, that He moves with you.
Physical rules are not likely to apply to Him.
They apply to us.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
With that much in your hand....will you be bowing out?
hahaha no, I'm not the one dealing in "what if's".
my point is.... "If" is a small word with huge meaning.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
You are quite wrong. Adaptation is a gradual process and it is directional. Radical changes in the environment can change the direction (even reverse it), but, other things being equal, the environment selects for optimal traits. That is what gives "direction" to evolution. I think that you are trying hard to mince words here. Even if thief had been correct in his little word game, all Android would have to do would be to say he was speaking metaphorically. So these kinds of word games are a bit silly. Those of us who understand evolution know that it is a completely unintelligent statistical process. You can choose to avoid the word "control" with respect to natural selection. I choose not to.