Humans are still evolving...

[Thief]

If you had read what I said carefully, then you would have seen that I was saying the same thing. Our only disagreement has been in the way we choose to describe it. Evolution enables adaptation, and adaptation is inherently directional. It does not really help to say that the direction of evolution is an illusion, because, if you want to split semantic hairs, most of what we perceive and think about the world is illusion.

This will come back to you...another thread.

 

[Copernicus]

This will come back to you...another thread.

Bring it on. :drool:

 

[Thief]

Bring it on. :drool:

Let's play.

God is an illusion....so are you....and this entire discussion has been a dream.

 

[camanintx]

Piror to the 'big bang'....there is no movement....no time.

Once the universe begins to expand....movement takes hold.
Measuring the movement will eventually happen.

As for the Creator....
The lack of physical substance results in a lack of location.
(where is God?)
Lack of location....lack of measure.

Does that mean he is unaware of our linear existence?
(what is Man that God is mindful of him?)
Does that mean He is unable to work within the structure He created?

How about?...He is eternal...from the beginning He created, and forever more.

I disagree. Time is a measurement of change. Whether that change has location or not is irrelevant. If something cannot change, it cannot act. If it cannot act, it cannot create. Ergo, an eternal, timeless god cannot have created the universe or anything else for that matter. And a god that cannot create is undeserving of the definition, hence my comparison to square circles.

 

[Copernicus]

Let's play.

God is an illusion....so are you....and this entire discussion has been a dream.

An illusion is a perception that is misleading. You can make the case that we are illusions in several senses. I would maintain that God, however, is a delusion, because there is nothing there to misperceive.

 

[Thief]

I disagree. Time is a measurement of change. Whether that change has location or not is irrelevant. If something cannot change, it cannot act. If it cannot act, it cannot create. Ergo, an eternal, timeless god cannot have created the universe or anything else for that matter. And a god that cannot create is undeserving of the definition, hence my comparison to square circles.

Apply geometry to a spiritual Entity?
Insist on measure?....and what unit of such do you suggest?

 

[Thief]

An illusion is a perception that is misleading. You can make the case that we are illusions in several senses. I would maintain that God, however, is a delusion, because there is nothing there to misperceive.

So you and I .......'just happened'?

Well so much for evolution.
So much for cause and effect.

In regression you will find yourself at a 'point' wherein matter and spirit come together.

Choose.

If you say substance first....
you are the sum of your chemistry and your discussion will fail...when you do.

If you say Spirit first....
then there is a Creator and you are part of this creation.
You might even have a shot at continuance....after your last breath.

 

[Copernicus]

So you and I .......'just happened'?

A necessary prerequisite to us even having this discussion.

Well so much for evolution.
So much for cause and effect.

Yes. So much for them.

In regression you will find yourself at a 'point' wherein matter and spirit come together.

Choose.

I think that you are trying to make a point about infinite regression here, but I am at a loss as to what it is. If you mean "choose" between matter and spirit, I'll just choose both.

If you say substance first....
you are the sum of your chemistry and your discussion will fail...when you do.

If you say Spirit first....
then there is a Creator and you are part of this creation.
You might even have a shot at continuance....after your last breath.

I'm not putting any money on having a shot at 'continuance', as you put it. There is good reason to believe that the 'spirit' perishes along with the 'substance'.

 

[camanintx]

Apply geometry to a spiritual Entity?
Insist on measure?....and what unit of such do you suggest?

Time is an abstract property of physics, not geometry, and like numbers and mathematics has no real existence. Unless you show that things can exist in any other time than "now", the idea that something can exist "outside" of time or eternally is meaningless.

 

[Thief]

Time is an abstract property of physics, not geometry, and like numbers and mathematics has no real existence. Unless you show that things can exist in any other time than "now", the idea that something can exist "outside" of time or eternally is meaningless.

Looks like you and Copernicus are headed in the same direction.

And time has no physical property.
Not a force....not a substance.

 

[PolyHedral]

Looks like you and Copernicus are headed in the same direction.

And time has no physical property.
Not a force....not a substance.

Just a number over all of space.

 

[Android]

If you say substance first....
you are the sum of your chemistry and your discussion will fail...when you do.

If you say Spirit first....
then there is a Creator and you are part of this creation.
You might even have a shot at continuance....after your last breath.

Only people who waste thier lives dissappear when they die.
Did Einstiens discussion "fail" when he died?

Bowing down to some imaginary creator does not "give you a shot at continuance", this is only achieved by doing great things while you are alive. Stop wasting your life and go do something great for our civilization. Then you might get your name in the history books and "live" forever.

 

[Thief]

Only people who waste thier lives dissappear when they die.
Did Einstiens discussion "fail" when he died?

Point taken...but he died knowing his equation was not the mark.

Bowing down to some imaginary creator does not "give you a shot at continuance", this is only achieved by doing great things while you are alive. Stop wasting your life and go do something great for our civilization. Then you might get your name in the history books and "live" forever.

Fame is all fine and good....for the living.

I take aim much higher up.

In the mean time...humans are evolving.
I simply give God credit for having a hand in it.

 

[outhouse]

In the mean time...humans are evolving.
I simply give God credit for having a hand in it.

yet you cannot show it

prove it

or provide any evidence beyond imagination. lovely.

 

[Copernicus]

Looks like you and Copernicus are headed in the same direction.

So, camanintx, would you like to split expenses? Thief is also headed in the same direction, but he seems not to realize it.

 

[Thief]

Come on over to my place....a thread called...
Intelligence First.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Piror to the 'big bang'....there is no movement....no time.

How would one even come to know such a thing. I can posit that our universe is one of many.....and the big bang was our universe separating from an existing one......but of course...non of what you or I posit on this matter can be viewed as any sort of evidence....:sad:

 

[Copernicus]

Come on over to my place....a thread called...
Intelligence First.

An ironic title. I read that thread, and you raised no points there that you have not already raised here, so I'll pass.

 

[Thief]

How would one even come to know such a thing. I can posit that our universe is one of many.....and the big bang was our universe separating from an existing one......but of course...non of what you or I posit on this matter can be viewed as any sort of evidence....:sad:

For the singularity to be truly singular....
no secondary point allowed.

No secondary point....no movement, no vector to be measured....no time.

 

[Thief]

An ironic title. I read that thread, and you raised no points there that you have not already raised here, so I'll pass.

And you then concede?...probably not.
But then a lack of faith is evidence of intelligence?

I think not.

The intelligent thing to say would be...God did it.