Humans Are...

[ΩRôghênΩ]

In the great dark between the stars there are clouds of gas and dust and organic matter. Dozens of different kinds of organic molecules have been found by radio telescopes. The abundance of these molecules suggests that the stuff of life is everywhere. Perhaps the origin and evolution of life is , given enough time, a cosmic inevitability. On some of the billions of panets in th Milky Way Galaxy, life may never arise. On others ,it may arise and die out, or never evolve beyond it's simplest forms. And on some small fraction of worlds there may develope intelligences and civilizations more advanced than our own.

yes but these particles arent alive. they are only building blocks, like amino acids

 

[Sunstone]

I don't see how anything at all can be good in and of itself. Good and bad are subjective.

Even granting for the sake of debate that the value of something is subjective would not logically require us to believe that something cannot be good in and of itself. That is, we can have an experience in which we are subjectively impressed that something is good in and of itself. In fact, many people claim to have had precisely such experiences of feeling that love, beauty, compassion, etc are good in and of themselves. The crucial distinction here is not between objective and subjective good and bad, but between a thing good for its own sake, and a thing good or bad as a means to something else. The latter does not depend on the former.

 

[fantome profane]

This is my favourite Albert Einstein quote

A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the 'Universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.

That sums up my feelings about humans and their place in the universe.

 

[d.]

I'm not sure how one gets from the notion there is no god or soul to the notion that we are mere meatbags. It seems to me that's a juvenile leap.

Furthermore, it seems to me that some things, such as love and beauty, are good in and of themselves, rather than dependent on an indifferent cosmos for their value. The mere fact these things are impermanent is no real argument against their value. A thing good in and of itself need not be permanent to have value. If breathing were good in and of itself, we would see this truth in every breath taken and exhaled.

A thing need not be a means to an end for it to have value, just as life need not be a means to salvation for life to have value. So, I disagree with this assumption that humans can be reduced to mere meatbags if there are no gods nor souls. When you first take off your clothes, you might think you are reduced to nothing, but that is an illusion: you have merely been focused on clothing, rather than at looking at all that you are even without your inessential clothes.

i agree wholly, and there's not much to add. we are what we are, and that in itself is a wonder and a miracle.

 

[d.]

But maybe that's just a natural part of a larger schale evolutionary cycle. One species that is so potentially destructive that one day, it will clear the way for life on earth to restart its entire development, and in an entirely different way, because of the randomness factor involved in evolution, and different earth conditions and circumstances. Maybe we should be called the highest decreators?

you make it sound like there's some grand plan involved. there isn't, at least if you're not religious.

I would've put it another way: We are just matter and energy interacting with other matter and energy.

we are not just anything. from a particular POV we are 'matter and energy interacting with other matter and energy', definitely. however, to claim that this is all we are is giving a certain way of looking at existence a ridiculous authority of being the only valid one.

 

[Majikthise]

yes but these particles arent alive. they are only building blocks, like amino acids

Point is, why should we consider ourselves sacred or special when there are almost certainly other beings in this Universe? Even if we die out as a race before we find any sure evidence it doesn't mean we are the only ones. I don't believe any of that UFO ,alien abduction bunk , but the prospect of us being the only intelligent life in exsistance is a dismal one. If , or when, we find evidence of other life in the Universe , it will shatter all of man's preconceptions about religion, and that scares a lot of powerful people.

 

[Booko]

Point is, why should we consider ourselves sacred or special when there are almost certainly other beings in this Universe? Even if we die out as a race before we find any sure evidence it doesn't mean we are the only ones. I don't believe any of that UFO ,alien abduction bunk , but the prospect of us being the only intelligent life in exsistance is a dismal one. If , or when, we find evidence of other life in the Universe , it will shatter all of man's preconceptions about religion, and that scares a lot of powerful people.

fwiw, it won't shatter every religion's conceptions. Here's a bit I whimsically refer to as Baha'i Sci Fi :

"Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute."

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 163)

 

[roli]

Lol! To think there are people out there that think we are "sacred beings" and "the highest creation of god"... :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

We're just smart(occasionally) meatbags! Get over it.

Vanity...

As a christian we don't think that all people are sacred or holy before God ,man in his immoral state is separated from God and are considered lost sinners,unrightous,unholy until they come to know Jesus as Savior they then become reconciled before God and heirs and joint heirs with CHRIST Jesus and seated with Him in heavenly places ,we are restored back to God.

I guess all you can do is hope that we are wrong,because you can refute ,debate and degrade christians all you want but what an amazing experience being in personal relationship with God,forgiven ,redeemed and saved from sin ,knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt heaven is our home eternally, It is the most amazing and awesome assurance to have in a most unstable and unreliable world we presently live in

 

[Opethian]

you make it sound like there's some grand plan involved. there isn't, at least if you're not religious.

That wasn't really what I meant, it's just that sometimes there are cycles that we have not observed yet, because they are beyond our schale. The appearance of one intellectually dominant species and its destruction of a large part of the planet may be part of a certain planet life cycle.

we are not just anything. from a particular POV we are 'matter and energy interacting with other matter and energy', definitely. however, to claim that this is all we are is giving a certain way of looking at existence a ridiculous authority of being the only valid one.

Well, what more than interacting energy and matter are we then?

I guess all you can do is hope that we are wrong,because you can refute ,debate and degrade christians all you want but what an amazing experience being in personal relationship with God,forgiven ,redeemed and saved from sin ,knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt heaven is our home eternally, It is the most amazing and awesome assurance to have in a most unstable and unreliable world we presently live in

But what is an insurance worth if you won't get it when the time comes where you are supposed to claim it?

 

[Majikthise]

fwiw, it won't shatter every religion's conceptions. Here's a bit I whimsically refer to as Baha'i Sci Fi :

"Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute."

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 163)

I stand corrected, in a good way.

 

[white_wolf]

Divinity and physicality are one.
Breath in and breath out,
On heaven's gates and Earth's dawn.

 

[Turbo]

But then again where can truth be found without a god? Truth can only be found within oneself. Christianity is a diing faith, God is dead as Zarathustra would say and we have to make it on our own by enjoying the beauty in life and by saying 'yes' to existence over and over again.

 

[white_wolf]

But then again where can truth be found without a god? Truth can only be found within oneself. Christianity is a diing faith, God is dead as Zarathustra would say and we have to make it on our own by enjoying the beauty in life and by saying 'yes' to existence over and over again.

To affirm or deny is to merely create or negate (which is a creation as well, anyway).

If truth is found within ourselves,
Then truth is like a flower,
born in beauty.
but all flowers are to die,
what then is truth?
the beauty given forth,
born within the eye of its beholder and creator, all the same.
timeless unity,
in the brevity of spring.

 

[cardero]

Humans Are...
People too.

 

[Cuthberta]

We are here because we are here.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I believe that human life is sacred. To say that we are intelligent meatbags is true from a more physical perspective. But I value my meat, and my intelligence. I also value my wife's intelligence, and especially her meat. And I know that other people value their own intelligence and meat and dont want to see anything bad happen to it. I think the fact that we can recognize our own existence, pleasure and pain, happiness and sadness, life and death, and also empathize with others, does make us a little more special than other life forms who can't.

Calling us meatbags makes me think of slaughtering humans along with cattle, even though that's probably not what you meant by it. I'm just in the mood for a good steak right now.