Humans Vs. Any Other Species

[Alekdar]

In your personal opinion, are humans more important than, superior to, or better than other species on this planet or any extraterrestrial life that may exist in the universe?

Why or why not?

What does your religion or philosophy teach about this?

More important? yes, superior? in some regards yes, better? in some regards yes.
Our particular branch of monkeys has very cool features, such as: manual dexterity, cooperation skills, complex social structures, and recently and the best of all, the ability of knowledge transfer, not only spoken as many other animals, but written, our information not only survives death of the individual but it remains unchanged in written format.
Our ability to "pile up" knowledge allowed us to understand and manipulate way bigger aspects of nature that other animals cannot even grasp, and they are at it's mercy.

Now mind you, that also means, that as smart monkeys we are, we should have a responsability with those below us, who know no better than to feed, reproduce and kill within their ecological niches, which is perfectly fine, nature is like this, but we have a better and more complete view from up here, and therefore we should be better than this
Cheers!

 

[MikeF]

Let's think about this together. Seriously.

The chicken eats the corn kernel. That's the corn seed and it's the entire corn stalk/seed plant at a very early stage. That corn seed would not have existed had it not been needed for the chicken to kill it and consume it. The same can be said for the chicken. The sun is expelling photons and when it's finished it will die. As it is dying it is getting hotter and in just a billion years it will boil off all the oceans where most terrestrial life exists.

We're all connected and it's good.

If we are thinking seriously, chickens evolved in Southeast Asia, I believe, and corn in the Americas. Seems corn seed existed without any regard for chickens. My take would be that corn seed existed simply to make more corn plants.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I'm a little slow on the uptake. Could you be specific as to the the dumb idea I pasted upon religious beliefs in general? Was it my reference to an afterlife? Was that the dumb idea?

I'm not aware of any dumb idea from you, that's why I asked...

MikeF, please tell me if you consider that there are some "religious" people who are actually seeing things in a way that can be useful to you, and please tell us if you ever ask what their beliefs are w/o pasting on dumb ideas first...

--the idea being we really don't know if someone has a dumb idea before asking them. My experience is that if a person has thought out his own beliefs and is willing to share then this is smart. Someone who makes up what others believe (imho) is dumb.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I meant: No species on our planet is superior to any other species on our planet.

Superior in what respect?

Bio-friendly?​

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How about humanity versus fig trees?​

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[Trailblazer]

Not to be argumentative, but for me, it begs the question of where one draws the line. You say you believe animals survive death, does that include all species in the Kingdom Animalia?

Yes, I believe it would have to include all animal species.

I get why many hold a belief in an afterlife for human beings as many religions hold human beings apart from all other species with humans beings being the whole reason for all of creation.

Yes, that is a Christian belief and other Abrahamic religions also hold that belief, but I am a bit of a dissenter.
Not only that, but I think that anthropocentric viewpoint is very arrogant... "That animal was put here for ME" is appalling to me.

If you personally see other animals as also having an afterlife, is it the same one you envision for human beings or something else? What qualifies something to be eligible for an afterlife in your view?

No, I do not envision the same kind of afterlife for animals as for humans. Since only humans can know and worship God, their afterlife will be different.
I have no idea what an animal afterlife will be like, I cannot even imagine it. Heck, I don't even know what the human afterlife will be like!

I don't think it is about eligibility. God will be the one who decides if there is an afterlife for animals, just as God created an afterlife for humans.

 

[Pete in Panama]

If we are thinking seriously, chickens evolved in Southeast Asia, I believe, and corn in the Americas. Seems corn seed existed without any regard for chickens. My take would be that corn seed existed simply to make more corn plants.

Corn exists because people wanted it and they bred the wild grains until they came up w/ corn. Corn was created by people to feed people and livestock.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Superior in what respect?

Bio-friendly?​

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How about humanity versus fig trees?​

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that's an unanswered question that nobody has really thought about.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

that's an unanswered question that nobody has really thought about.

Nobody except for the growing segment of humanity concerned about such things as sustainability, biodiversity, and global warming. The fact that you've "never really thought about it" is pretty weak grounds for characterizing the rest of the world.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Superior in what respect?

Bio-friendly?​

​

How about humanity versus fig trees?​

​

In that respect human (negative) impact on the environment is unmatched.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Nobody except for the growing segment of humanity concerned about such things as sustainability, biodiversity, and global warming. The fact that you've "never really thought about it" is pretty weak grounds for characterizing the rest of the world.

Sounds like I need to explain that I really have "thought about it" and when I said "nobody" I was referring not to the 8 billion humans on the planet but rather to just the posts on this current thread.

Your mentioning "sustainability, biodiversity, and global warming" is interesting, please tell me how those thoughts relate to this thread about how important humans are v. other living & non-living entities.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Your mentioning "sustainability, biodiversity, and global warming" is interesting, please tell me how those thoughts relate to this thread about how important humans are v. other living & non-living entities.

I would prefer to wait until you ask a cognitively meaningful question. What is importance? How is it measured? How might one compare the importance of a pizza with the importance of a forum member?

 

[SalixIncendium]

You may be technically correct if we define sentience as being able to sense surroundings. By that definition plants and amebas are sentient because their able to move fo better get what they need for sustenance. That leaves is w/ who cares about sentience?

Those who understand what sentience actually means.

The total biomass of livestock is more that a hundred times the biomass of all wild mammals and birds. Livestock would not be alive w/o people.

Livestock would't exist period if people didn't breed animals for their personal or commercial use.

Interesting. I'd thought that our convo was inherently a good thing, but if you see no basic good to it --other than whatever good you personally can make up-- and you feel you're just being caused to chat, then we can call it quits & I'll wish you well.

If you want to quit the exchange, that's your prerogative. Thanks for the well wishes, and I wish you the same.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I would prefer to wait until you ask a cognitively meaningful question. What is importance? How is it measured? How might one compare the importance of a pizza with the importance of a forum member?

That was pretty much my concern to w/ this thread. Looks like you and I are pretty much on the same page here.

 

[MikeF]

Corn exists because people wanted it and they bred the wild grains until they came up w/ corn. Corn was created by people to feed people and livestock.

This makes more sense to me than your previous comment of:

"That corn seed would not have existed had it not been needed for the chicken to kill it and consume it."

 

[MikeF]

I'm not aware of any dumb idea from you, that's why I asked...

--the idea being we really don't know if someone has a dumb idea before asking them. My experience is that if a person has thought out his own beliefs and is willing to share then this is smart. Someone who makes up what others believe (imho) is dumb.

Still unclear to me what was made up and pasted on.

As to whether I consider that there are some "religious" people who are actually seeing things in a way that can be useful to me, it seems rather a broad question. I am sure there are lots of things religious folks may see eye-to-eye with me on that are not specifically religious ideas, such as democratic and humanistic values. In terms of things that are wholly specific to a religion, such as imagined realms that contain imagined entities with abilities incompatible with our understanding reality, then no, I do not see those as useful to me or to society at large.

 

[Pete in Panama]

This makes more sense to me than your previous comment of:

"That corn seed would not have existed had it not been needed for the chicken to kill it and consume it."

Interesting. My take is that the two statements make the identical claim

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Corn exists because people wanted it and they bred the wild grains until they came up w/ corn. Corn was created by people to feed people and livestock.

His comment was that the existence of corn was not related to the existence of chickens. Your comment above does not address this.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

If we are thinking seriously, chickens evolved in Southeast Asia, I believe, and corn in the Americas. Seems corn seed existed without any regard for chickens. My take would be that corn seed existed simply to make more corn plants.

I agree. Seed in general functions for reproduction. It is a resource available for exploitation by other living things. I routinely exploit corn. With butter and herbs.

I get the impression that many people think that biological traits evolved to fit some need or desire. That there is a purpose. Much like Ray Comfort's view of the banana.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If we are thinking seriously, chickens evolved in Southeast Asia, I believe, and corn in the Americas. Seems corn seed existed without any regard for chickens. My take would be that corn seed existed simply to make more corn plants.

Certainly, the existence of corn and chickens have no relationship to each other. But in both cases, they are examples of humans using breeding to refine something in nature. Corn did not evolve naturally on its own; it is the product of humans taking a grass and selectively breeding it for larger seeds. Similarly in the case of chickens, what we have today is very different from the natural chickens of Southeast Asia due to humans breeding them to be fatter and having heavier breasts. So, sir, you are technically incorrect when you say that the reason corn seed exists is solely to create more corn seeds -- this comment omits the human intervention.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Certainly, the existence of corn and chickens have no relationship to each other. But in both cases, they are examples of humans using breeding to refine something in nature. Corn did not evolve naturally on its own; it is the product of humans taking a grass and selectively breeding it for larger seeds. Similarly in the case of chickens, what we have today is very different from the natural chickens of Southeast Asia due to humans breeding them to be fatter and having heavier breasts. So, sir, you are technically incorrect when you say that the reason corn seed exists is solely to create more corn seeds -- this comment omits the human intervention.

That is a very good point. We exploited the ancestral plant to optimize the nutritional value and yield to arrive at modern corn starting about 10,000 years ago. We are good at artificial selection that mimics natural selection while geared to our own ends. Sadly, many people misunderstand that such selection is not evidence of a designer other than man.

Are you familiar with teosinte? It is the wild relative from which corn as we know it was bred.

Wheat, rice and host of other plants and animals have come under our manipulations to fill modern markets and bellies.