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Hunting? Immoral?
- Thread starter dallas1125
- Start date
TheQueenCat
Animal Lover
"Hunting is not a sport. In a sport, both sides should know they're in the game." - Paul Rodriguez
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Of course I'll just throw something in here. Personal morality, being a Buddhist, technically we're not supposed to kill anything, so just because I say it's ok for you to hunt, it's not ok for a Buddhist to hunt. Some might do it, but it is against the Buddha's dharma 
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
While I agree that hunting is not a sport, it is not because the animals are unaware they are being hunting. Most hunted animals are built to understand they are being hunted.
There is something unsporting to how we hunt, though.
Of course I'll just throw something in here. Personal morality, being a Buddhist, technically we're not supposed to kill anything, so just because I say it's ok for you to hunt, it's not ok for a Buddhist to hunt. Some might do it, but it is against the Buddha's dharma
I know I heard that but wasn't sure. Is there any exception, like if you contract lice or your house is infested with rodents? I ask most sincerely and respectfully....:rainbow1:
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Yes that's a good question. It'd be a tough call to make. Because the animal has the right to live. I'm not more entitled to life then it is.
Nerthus
Wanderlust
True. I have heard the quote where it is said that "hunting can be called a sport, when we give the animal a gun too".
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
What I'm saying is that humans are natural omnivores and animals (of which we are) consuming one another is a natural part of the food chain. How can nature be immoral?
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Sorry but you have no idea of what you are talking about. Chickens are put in small cages there beaks are cut off so they won't peck each other. They live horrible lives. Pigs live in such small cages that they can't turn around. They never smell a world that is not full of their own crap. They get one walk in their life and thats to their death. Many of them drop dead from fear from leaving their cages. Hunting is much more humane.
[youtube]WeNLyg7NB20[/youtube]
YouTube - This American Life: This Little Piggy Made Me Vomit
Considering all the bizarre activities that get labeled "sport" I can't really exclude hunting. But then, just because something's a sport doesn't give it a moral pass.
There's also sport hunting and subsistence hunting. There are still peoples who survive by hunting and have no other practicable alternatives. These, I think, are in a different category from those who hunt for sport and use their kills, who, in turn, are in a different moral category from those who kill just for the fun of it.
There's also sport hunting and subsistence hunting. There are still peoples who survive by hunting and have no other practicable alternatives. These, I think, are in a different category from those who hunt for sport and use their kills, who, in turn, are in a different moral category from those who kill just for the fun of it.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
To me not eating meat is something I do to help the world. Giving up someting for the good of others is ethical. I agree with you that eating meat does not make you unethical.
Eating meat from factory farms is a different story. 99% of all anamels eaten in America is from factory farms. Factory farming is the biggest cause of Globel warming. Factory Farming is where most colds and flu's come from. I can go on and on with this. Meat consumption is not immoral but factory farms are.
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There are still peoples who hunt to survive. Wouldn't they be in a different moral category from those who hunt for sport but use their kills or those who hunt purely for the joy of it?
It can be immoral because other animals are not moral agents. They have no behavioral flexibility or alternatives.
Humans are able to appreciate the effects of their actions on others and are behaviorally flexible. We're not locked into a lifestyle and our insight confers a moral obligation.
We've developed complex systems of ethics and morality to govern our interactions with other humans. But there are no qualities unique to humans that would restrict our moral consideration only to our own species.
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This is so unfortunate and so very true. It is mind blowing how these animals are raised.And then we have the nerve to throw so much of it out!
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
this is what my religion says:
The wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea. Isaiah 11:6-9
the earth will be recreated, repaired, replenished because God will take control
Revelation 21:1-5 I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: Look! I am making all things new. Also, he says: Write, because these words are faithful and true.
now thats a world i would like to live in.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
do they have free range farming in your country?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I think people who kill animals for the pleasure of killing are, in the best case, somewhat emotionally (and possibly mentally) retarded, and, in the worst case, dangerous sociopaths. Most probably fall somewhere in the middle.
dallas1125
Covert Operative
Yes but those animals are mostly private and never sold to large corporations. Plus its a lot faster and more convenient to mass raise and mass slaughter in factories for corporations.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Because the human definition and understanding of morality is not one based in what is or is not natural. Morality concerns the suffering and happiness of others. If we based morals on simply what is or is not natural, then many of our ideas would be different.
For example, rape is very natural in the animal kingdom. Even amongst humans, rape was normal in many societies throughout history.
Killing other humans is natural. Even eating other humans is natural. We stopped doing that when we became 'civilised'- ie/ created social rules that excluded such activities.
Abortion, cloning, medication, synthetic limbs, contemporary forms of contraception, prolonging life in hospital by artificially means (tubes that control breathing etc.) are all unnatural.
What I am saying is, this world is one filled with suffering and pain. As selfish creatures who strive for survival, we are naturally capable and driven to cause such suffering to others for our own gain. Morality is something that has developed within us that makes us think twice about acting on our selfish whims. So we control ourselves.
So we try not to rape and kill and hurt others. In most cultures, people have been taught to look at animals as something inferior (Ie/ according to Christianity and in ancient Greek understandings, animals do not have souls and were created for man to feast upon. These histories and civilisations are the basis for our contemporary western cultures and have influenced our views on animals). We humans have done this in so many cases- for example, racism, sexism etc. And so we treat that other race or species with less care.
Looking at a human being or another animal with equality is a choice, and one that generally emerges through education. Most vegetarians choose to acknowledge that most animals experience pain and suffering as humans do, and so we extend our moral consideration to those animals as well.
What is natural is not necessarily what is moral. If that were not the case, then we'd feel nothing wrong about hunting and eating our fellow man.
I want to add that I think a number of humans are naturally sensitive to the killing of animals from a young age. I've come across quite a few people who are vegetarian because they saw an animal die when they were young and it greatly traumatised them.
One particular friend of mine was about 8/9 years old. Her dad took her fishing. It was just seeing the fish struggle in the boat until it suffocated to death that traumatised her for life. She is now in her mid 20s.
When I was a kid, there were a few incidents where I'd make a new friend, inform them that meat came from animals and then found out that those kids were refusing to eat the meat their parents made at home. More than once I was no longer allowed to associate with those children any more.
Those people who enjoy hunting have often been taken out to hunt since they were very young. I think there is a level of desensitisation to killing. It occurs just as well in humans who for their entire life are involved in killing humans.
So I find it very, very interesting that many humans apparently have a natural aversion to killing animals. It is my belief, from the above related experiences, that our attitudes toward animals and killing/hunting in our adult life are greatly attributed to desensitisation (and cultural/religious beliefs and education of course) OR, for those who have no experience in animal death and buy all their meat from stores, it is greatly attributed to lack of experience/ignorance.
One particular friend of mine was about 8/9 years old. Her dad took her fishing. It was just seeing the fish struggle in the boat until it suffocated to death that traumatised her for life. She is now in her mid 20s.
When I was a kid, there were a few incidents where I'd make a new friend, inform them that meat came from animals and then found out that those kids were refusing to eat the meat their parents made at home. More than once I was no longer allowed to associate with those children any more.
Those people who enjoy hunting have often been taken out to hunt since they were very young. I think there is a level of desensitisation to killing. It occurs just as well in humans who for their entire life are involved in killing humans.
So I find it very, very interesting that many humans apparently have a natural aversion to killing animals. It is my belief, from the above related experiences, that our attitudes toward animals and killing/hunting in our adult life are greatly attributed to desensitisation (and cultural/religious beliefs and education of course) OR, for those who have no experience in animal death and buy all their meat from stores, it is greatly attributed to lack of experience/ignorance.