Hypnosis - Morally Acceptable? (from Christian standpoint)

[T-Dawg]

Staredit Network » Topic: Hypnosis - demonic?
Hello. Above is a discussion I had in another forum about the morality of hypnosis and some questions about sex (on second page). I'd recommend reading the entire thread, it's only 2 pages and not bound to grow anytime soon by the looks of it.

Would anyone here like to contribute to the discussion shown in the link?

Thanks, if you want, I can copy/paste the information but you'll probably get more from the link...

 

[Quagmire]

I don't have time to read the link but real quick; I would say many forms of Christianity never would have gotten off the ground if it weren't for hypnosis.

 

[T-Dawg]

Any HELPFUL advice that doesn't insult my religion? I want Biblical advice, I've already heard Christian doctrine being compared to hypnosis (and frankly, I hope Christianity isn't like hypnosis, if only because if it is, it probably means I either can't be hypnotized or I can't feel it).

You NEED to read the link to know what I'm talking about. Reading some of the links in the link (I've posted just about all of my major sources somewhere in that thread) also helps.

 

[T-Dawg]

Aww facepalm, someone told me this was the right forum to post this in... then after I posted, I saw the "for non-religious discussions..." GAH!

How do I move the thread?

 

[misanthropic_clown]

I think the moral opposition to hypnosis largely stems from an exaggeration of how powerful hypnosis actually is. Have you ever heard of Derren Brown? He is a famous hypnotist/mental magician in the UK. He was a Christian, started studying hypnotism and was met with opposition from Christian friends who considered it to be evil. He found on studying the mechanics of hypnotism, which are largely rooted in and required an understanding of psychology, that there was no mysticism to it. Thus the notion that it was some sort of demonic activity was absurd.

His study of hypnotism and psychology actually also resulted in him becoming an atheist.

He actually wrote a book on the topic of hypnotism, which I think you would like, called 'Tricks of the Mind'. I think once the sense of magic has been taken away from hypnotism, there is little grounds on which it can be considered evil.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Aww facepalm, someone told me this was the right forum to post this in... then after I posted, I saw the "for non-religious discussions..." GAH!

How do I move the thread?

PM a moderator, and ask them to move it.

 

[T-Dawg]

Ok, but is ALL hypnosis ok? Did you read the thread and look at what my intended use for hypnosis was? That might have an impact on your answer, since I'm not using it for therapy or physical healing (specifically, I'm looking into erotic hypnosis, and trying to judge whether or not it's a good idea).

Also, how do I know which ones are mods? Are all the people labelled as "Staff" mods or are mods separate from staff?

 

[monta]

Also, how do I know which ones are mods? Are all the people labelled as "Staff" mods or are mods separate from staff?

Know Your Moderators! - Religious Education Forum

and soz again for bad advice

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Ok, but is ALL hypnosis ok? Did you read the thread and look at what my intended use for hypnosis was? That might have an impact on your answer, since I'm not using it for therapy or physical healing (specifically, I'm looking into erotic hypnosis, and trying to judge whether or not it's a good idea).

Also, how do I know which ones are mods? Are all the people labelled as "Staff" mods or are mods separate from staff?

In my understanding of hypnosis, it won't happen unless the 'victim' (for want of a better word) is willing and open to the suggestions you make. Given that it would therefore have to be consensual, I cannot see any harm in it.

 

[T-Dawg]

In my understanding of hypnosis, it won't happen unless the 'victim' (for want of a better word) is willing and open to the suggestions you make. Given that it would therefore have to be consensual, I cannot see any harm in it.

You aren't answering the question.
I already know that it has to be consenual, and that you cannot hypnotize someone to do something against their morals (at least, that's what the vast majority of the sources say). I've pretty much put it out of the question that hypnosis is somehow demonic, occult, or evil in and of itself.
I'm asking whether or not it's right to use self-hypnotism (or hypnotism with a partner) to experience orgasm and to build bonding and trust in a romantic relationship.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

You aren't answering the question.
I already know that it has to be consenual, and that you cannot hypnotize someone to do something against their morals (at least, that's what the vast majority of the sources say). I've pretty much put it out of the question that hypnosis is somehow demonic, occult, or evil in and of itself.
I'm asking whether or not it's right to use self-hypnotism (or hypnotism with a partner) to experience orgasm and to build bonding and trust in a romantic relationship.

Sorry, I guess I didn't really tie it in.

I personally think that anything done sexually between consenting partners is fine provided they are both comfortable with it and it is done as an expression of love (ie. doesn't foster harmful feelings). Thus the use of hypnosis to intensify sexual activity and bond together would be fine, though I must admit I am skeptical it would be at all effective.

 

[Nepenthe]

I think the moral opposition to hypnosis largely stems from an exaggeration of how powerful hypnosis actually is. Have you ever heard of Derren Brown? He is a famous hypnotist/mental magician in the UK. He was a Christian, started studying hypnotism and was met with opposition from Christian friends who considered it to be evil. He found on studying the mechanics of hypnotism, which are largely rooted in and required an understanding of psychology, that there was no mysticism to it. Thus the notion that it was some sort of demonic activity was absurd.

His study of hypnotism and psychology actually also resulted in him becoming an atheist.

He actually wrote a book on the topic of hypnotism, which I think you would like, called 'Tricks of the Mind'. I think once the sense of magic has been taken away from hypnotism, there is little grounds on which it can be considered evil.

Not to derail too much but Derren Brown is an accomplished mentalist or magician. He's very good at insinuating hyponosis is involved when in actuality his stunts are magic tricks, not hypnotic influence or anything of the sort. He's just replaced the pseudo-psychic act of a Uri Geller or Kreskin with pseudo-psychology. It's all trickery though.

He's an amazing magician.

 

[T-Dawg]

You personally think? You PERSONALLY think? Gah, are there really so many tranlations for the Bible that each person has his own these days? D=

By the way, since this is supposed to be a theological/moral discussion that goes by the Bible, it'd be nice if your opinions were backed up by actual passages from the Bible =P.

Not to derail too much but Derren Brown is an accomplished mentalist or magician. He's very good at insinuating hyponosis is involved when in actuality his stunts are magic tricks, not hypnotic influence or anything of the sort. He's just replaced the pseudo-psychic act of a Uri Geller or Kreskin with pseudo-psychology. It's all trickery though.

He's an amazing magician.

That's not the kind of hypnosis I'm interested in. That's stage hypnosis, and not only is it completely fake, I find it rather uninteresting (possibly because I know it's fake).

 

[3.14]

from what i read about hypnosis it can't make you do things you realy don't want to do, like kill steal etc so you should be fine

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Not to derail too much but Derren Brown is an accomplished mentalist or magician. He's very good at insinuating hyponosis is involved when in actuality his stunts are magic tricks, not hypnotic influence or anything of the sort. He's just replaced the pseudo-psychic act of a Uri Geller or Kreskin with pseudo-psychology. It's all trickery though.

He's an amazing magician.

Yup, I know. In his book though, he goes through his early dabblings in hypnosis which was what I was referring to. Some pretty funny anecdotes.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

You personally think? You PERSONALLY think? Gah, are there really so many tranlations for the Bible that each person has his own these days? D=

By the way, since this is supposed to be a theological/moral discussion that goes by the Bible, it'd be nice if your opinions were backed up by actual passages from the Bible =P.


That's not the kind of hypnosis I'm interested in. That's stage hypnosis, and not only is it completely fake, I find it rather uninteresting (possibly because I know it's fake).

I'm afraid the Bible is generally quite silent on the bedroom, and hypnosis as a practice started, if I recall correctly in the 18th/19th century. That there would be any way of analysing a combination of the two through Biblical justification is optimistic to say the least.

 

[T-Dawg]

Some people manage to do it XD. And actually, hypnosis goes back about 5000 years according to some of my sources. The pro-hypnosis sources give examples like the Egyptian Sleep Temples (or it might have been Greek... I think the Greeks adopted the practice), while the anti-hypnosis sources (the ones that think hypnosis is from Satan) point that it has origins in Eastern Mysticism. I think both are true, and I don't necessarily see how that's bad.

Some Christian pro-hypnosis sources point out to passages like where God puts Adam into "a deep sleep" so he can remove his rib and make it into a woman (why didn't he just make woman out of dust? Does the rib thing give some sense that the woman belongs to the man or something?), and also to where Joseph had found out that Mary was pregnant and was trying to decide what to do, at which point an angel came into his dream and told him to get up and go ahead and marry her, which he did immediately upon waking up (which those sources equate to Post-Hypnotic Suggestion).

Maybe if you actually read the link, it'd really help XD. Pay attention to my most recent post on that thread, where I had asked questions about the morality of sex, the answers of which should give me an idea as to whether or not erotic hypnosis is ok.
Will you actually read everything in the link I gave on my first post, or shall I copy/paste it for you?

EDIT: Also, does anyone know where I can get a... lighter form of erotic hypnosis, if I decide to get into it? Almost all of the ones on google look like they're geared for adults (and some will actually say they are), and some of them actually seem downright scary. Here's an example of what I would consider "scary:"

Femdom Erotic Hypnosis MP3s by Hypnotic Mistress Lady Izzabelle. Sensual Hypnodomme, Sweet Goddess, and Seductively Evil Succubus will control your mind and ...

That's literally the text under the link on one of the links that appeared when I searched for "erotic hypnosis." And that's not even the worst one XD.
Basically, what I'm asking is, is there a form of erotic hypnosis that won't make me feel like I'm looking up porn? And should I trust the internet for hypnosis at all, or would it be much safer just to try self-hypnosis and maybe hypnosis with my girlfriend, if I ever actually get one?
Also, as another question, when I'm in a hypnotic trance (if I actually manage to do that), should I indulge in my fetishes, or should I try to resist them? For example, I have this thing for Indian girls. Would it be healthy for me to imagine, as an example, that I'm in a ball room filled with beautiful Indian girls, as my relaxing trance scene (most people use feelings of water, beaches, gardens, etc)?

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Some people manage to do it XD. And actually, hypnosis goes back about 5000 years according to some of my sources. The pro-hypnosis sources give examples like the Egyptian Sleep Temples (or it might have been Greek... I think the Greeks adopted the practice), while the anti-hypnosis sources (the ones that think hypnosis is from Satan) point that it has origins in Eastern Mysticism. I think both are true, and I don't necessarily see how that's bad.

Some Christian pro-hypnosis sources point out to passages like where God puts Adam into "a deep sleep" so he can remove his rib and make it into a woman (why didn't he just make woman out of dust? Does the rib thing give some sense that the woman belongs to the man or something?), and also to where Joseph had found out that Mary was pregnant and was trying to decide what to do, at which point an angel came into his dream and told him to get up and go ahead and marry her, which he did immediately upon waking up (which those sources equate to Post-Hypnotic Suggestion).

Maybe if you actually read the link, it'd really help XD. Pay attention to my most recent post on that thread, where I had asked questions about the morality of sex, the answers of which should give me an idea as to whether or not erotic hypnosis is ok.
Will you actually read everything in the link I gave on my first post, or shall I copy/paste it for you?

The morality of sex will very much depend on your personal brand of Christianity. In my personal view (a phrase you have called me up on, but which I use for good reason) any sexual activity outside of marriage is a violation of the laws of chastity. Thus hypnotising yourself to orgasm, if even possible, would in my view be a sin. Between a married couple, though, the activity would be within the bounds of the law of chastity.

However, I am largely disinclined to take hypnosis seriously - though I recognise there is interesting psychology behind it. I don't think the biblical instances you describe amount to support of the notion of hypnosis. I view a lot of the account of creation as metaphorical, and Josephs dream would be better explained as a vision than as he being put under hypnosis.

 

[T-Dawg]

Yah, that's what I would have thought about Joseph's dreams, but at least the pro-hypnosis Christians actually use Biblical passages to back up their arguments (most of the anti-hypnosis ones that are supposed to be so pure and Christianly don't actually use quotes from the Bible to explain their position XD).

And I'm pretty sure it's possible to hypnotize yourself to orgasm, or at least it is for some people. It might not be for me, at least one of my sources has said that for it will almost certainly work IF "you have an understanding of what an orgasm is," or something like that, and since I've never had an orgasm before (I've had nocturnal emissions, but I don't recall ever feeling any "intense, dreamy pleasure" while ejaculating). I could probably stimulate myself a bit sexually though, maybe imagine cuddling with a lovely Indian girl or something. Almost every source I've been to says virtually the same things about hypnosis (aside from the paranoid Christians who think of hypnotism as somehow being occult, which I've pretty much dismissed, though it's not out of the question if you actually have a decent argument for it) - that the hypnotized can wake up at any moment, that one cannot be forced to go against ones morals or beliefs through hypnosis, that you have some conciousness during hypnosis, you usually don't have amnesia, etc. And judging by the extreme popularity of erotic hypnosis, I highly doubt that it doesn't work. And heck, I've found plenty of free ones, if it's morally ok, why not try it?

Oh, and by the way, I should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm 16. A number of the "erotic hypnosis" sites requires you to be over 18 (sometimes 21) or to not be a "minor" (not sure how young a "minor" would be), which kind of scares me.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Yah, that's what I would have thought about Joseph's dreams, but at least the pro-hypnosis Christians actually use Biblical passages to back up their arguments (most of the anti-hypnosis ones that are supposed to be so pure and Christianly don't actually use quotes from the Bible to explain their position XD).

And I'm pretty sure it's possible to hypnotize yourself to orgasm, or at least it is for some people. It might not be for me, at least one of my sources has said that for it will almost certainly work IF "you have an understanding of what an orgasm is," or something like that, and since I've never had an orgasm before (I've had nocturnal emissions, but I don't recall ever feeling any "intense, dreamy pleasure" while ejaculating). I could probably stimulate myself a bit sexually though, maybe imagine cuddling with a lovely Indian girl or something. Almost every source I've been to says virtually the same things about hypnosis (aside from the paranoid Christians who think of hypnotism as somehow being occult, which I've pretty much dismissed, though it's not out of the question if you actually have a decent argument for it) - that the hypnotized can wake up at any moment, that one cannot be forced to go against ones morals or beliefs through hypnosis, that you have some conciousness during hypnosis, you usually don't have amnesia, etc. And judging by the extreme popularity of erotic hypnosis, I highly doubt that it doesn't work. And heck, I've found plenty of free ones, if it's morally ok, why not try it?

Oh, and by the way, I should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm 16. A number of the "erotic hypnosis" sites requires you to be over 18 (sometimes 21) or to not be a "minor" (not sure how young a "minor" would be), which kind of scares me.

From a cursory view of what I can dig up, a lot of this 'erotic hypnosis' is just sexual fantasy talk. I guess it would be akin to one way phone sex. I think the notion of hypnosis is simply tacked on to give it a novel edge. It is just audio porn. Of course that is going to be sexually stimulating, but I still doubt it would be sufficient to bring someone to orgasm.