Hypnosis - Morally Acceptable? (from Christian standpoint)

[TashaN]

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This thread has been moved to the Christian DIR
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[The Neo Nerd]

Would anyone here like to contribute to the discussion shown in the link?

Having been through hypno therapy myself i can say for certain that the technique is in no way evil. Altered states of consciousness aren't evil. They are just a fact of life.

What suggestions are given to you while you are in the altered states of consciousness can be considered good and evil. It would be like saying alcohol is evil because it alters your mental status. And im sure there is many christians out there that drink alcohol. Most of the christians i know drink LOTS more than i do.

I provide the link below not as some kind of anti-sematic gesture as it discusses lots of mind control techniques in many situations eg cults, seminars and even television. I provide it so you know some of the unpublished mind altering techniques we ALL are exposed to every single day and therefore may be able to guard against the true evil of uses of these techniques.

The Battle for Your Mind Persuasion and Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public Today

In summary:

Hypnotism can be a truly life altering experience. Banishing negative behavioural patterns and reinforcing positive ones. Much like a gun it can be used for both good and bad.



-Q

 

[T-Dawg]

Ok, thanks, read that... dang, I'm glad I grew up with not much interest in TV (why would I want to watch somebody do something stupid when I could be actually doing something for myself, ie, on a video game, which actually requires thought and participation?)... and now I know what people are trying to say when they say that Christianity relies on hypnosis .

But what about my intended use of hypnosis though? Would erotic hypnosis (also refered to as "hypnofetishism" by a few sources and "hypnosex" by a very small number of the sources I've looked at) be morally ok? If so, under what conditions? Would I have to be married to induce orgasm in my partner, for example?
And I want to use this kind of stuff on myself too, sometimes just for fun and othertimes so I don't feel so bad about not having a girlfriend. Of course, the second problem might be alleviated by me mastering hypnosis - what girl in her right mind wouldn't want to date someone that could take them to an altered state where they can literally feel their erotic fantasies coming to life?
Oh, and where would you recommend me going with erotic hypnosis? Would it be safe to trust one of the free erotic hypnosis videos/mp3s from the internet, or am I better off with self-hypnosis? And should I indulge in my fetishes, or try to fight them? For example, I have this thing for Indian girls. Would it be a bad idea to hypnotize myself into imagining, say, a ball room filled with beautiful Indian girls? (I think I may have already asked this but I don't remember an answer)

Anyways, today's Sunday, I'm going to see if I can get the courage to ask at least a couple people at my church.

 

[T-Dawg]

Ok, I've gotten some information from a few people at my church. Here are the viewpoints of 4 of the members on the subjects dicussed (hypnosis and the definition of "sex"):

1.) Youth Group Leader - basically the guy who owns the youth group ministry. He doesn't actually interact with the kids all that much in 2nd hour Sunday school (there's 2 "hours," kind of like hours in school - one group goes to the worship service first, then to the small group, and the other goes to the "small" group first, and then to worship service. Since the second worship service plays contemporary music, the first hour youth group has like 50 people and 2nd hour, the one I go to, has like 8 tops XD). Anyways, he says that ANYTHING that stimulates sexual arousal is a sin (gee, I guess all teens are screwed), and that hypnosis is demonic and occult. I've pretty much discredited him as a source of information, because when I asked him how hypnosis is demonic or occult, he just mumbled his previous statement (that it was demonic and occult) and walked away. I really hope he's not in charge of the missionary section, that'd give a really bad impression to non-believers .

2.) Youth Group Teacher - the one that actually teaches the class and interacts with the kids. She's a real fun gal. She was rather uncomfortable talking about sex (for some reason, girls think that only men should talk to men about sex. I personally think men should talk to women about sex, since it's man and woman that go together in sex, and since women just tend to have better answers to emotional/spiritual questions anyways.) She at first seemed to think that hypnosis was demonic, but she changed her mind (I think) after she was unable to back up that view. She basically says that it's a bad idea to be willing to submit control of your body to something outside of God (gah, I should have asked her about trustworthy Christians using hypnosis instead of just hypnosis in general), and she seemed to understand that one could not be forced to go against their morals in hypnosis, but that it was the willingness to give up control to another person that was bad. When I asked her about self hypnosis, she said she didn't know the answer (she actually admitted it, which is a rather rare and noble virtue these days). When I asked how the heck I was supposed to know what the Bible says when everyone has a different interpretation and translation, she basically told me I had a lot of good questions .

3.) The special needs gal - not as in, she's special needs, but as in, she takes care of the special needs people (she's basically just there for my brother). She basically had a more rational view of my youth group leader's, basically that anything that gives you sexual arousal is bad (as in, hugging and kissing are ok, but making out and caressing eachother is bad). She believes that hypnosis isn't demonic or occult and that it can be used for certain things, but my ideas of using it for pleasure and romantic bonding probably weren't such good ideas.

4.) And as my final source, I have the pretty girl in my youth group that I have a crush on - she basically said the same thing as my youth group teacher on hypnosis (that submitting control of yourself to another person is a bad idea), but she presented a much more sensible view on sex: The way to tell if you're going too far is if it makes you want to keep going farther until you get to sexual intercourse. I'm not entirely sure how far I would go if given the chance, actually. I'm really not much of a sex person, when I think of my erotic fantasies, I think of cuddling (hugging, fondling, kissing, touching in general) with a beautiful girl that actually loves me.

And those are the opinions I got from church. What do you guys think?
Anyways, I'm thinking at this point that I might want to wait for hypnosis (self-hypnosis might be ok for now, not sure... I'll need more opinions for that one). The more I think about it, the more of a sexual nature it seems to convey, and that it requires an amount of trust that most people don't deserve. Therefore, I would say, with the information I have right now, that it is a form of sex (and probably even more pleasurable and erotic than sex itself, once mastered, assuming that the nearly unanimous information from my sources doesn't exaggerate) that only married couples should engage in. As for the issue of letting someone else control your body that my youth group teacher discussed with me, I would say that if you can't trust your spouse enough to let her have full control over you (or if she doesn't trust you enough to hypnotize her), then you have a really discontent marriage. Marriage in and of itself is the ultimate form of trust and commitment, therefore, married couples should be able to hypnotize eachother with no problems.

What do you think?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Ok, thanks, read that... dang, I'm glad I grew up with not much interest in TV (why would I want to watch somebody do something stupid when I could be actually doing something for myself, ie, on a video game, which actually requires thought and participation?)... and now I know what people are trying to say when they say that Christianity relies on hypnosis .

I feel the same way about video games myself. People often criticise me about playing video games, but when asked they watch more tv than i do playing video games. pfffff

And good on your for accepting that not everything a church does is good and holy.

But what about my intended use of hypnosis though? Would erotic hypnosis (also refered to as "hypnofetishism" by a few sources and "hypnosex" by a very small number of the sources I've looked at) be morally ok?

There is nothing in the bible that says hypnotism is bad. There is nothing in the bible that say sex is bad. There isn't even anything in the bible that says masturbation is bad (this one i know for certain as the pastor of the church i use to go to did a speech on it for us once)

There is however stuff in the bible that says sex outside of marriage is bad. So in a marriage hypnofetishism cannot be considered bad. Of course there is people out there that will tell you different, but this will be their own interpretations of the bible and their interpretations are based on their perceptions and biases and therefore are no more 'true' than yours.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

1.) Youth Group Leader - basically the guy who owns the youth group ministry. He doesn't actually interact with the kids all that much in 2nd hour Sunday school (there's 2 "hours," kind of like hours in school - one group goes to the worship service first, then to the small group, and the other goes to the "small" group first, and then to worship service. Since the second worship service plays contemporary music, the first hour youth group has like 50 people and 2nd hour, the one I go to, has like 8 tops XD). Anyways, he says that ANYTHING that stimulates sexual arousal is a sin (gee, I guess all teens are screwed), and that hypnosis is demonic and occult. I've pretty much discredited him as a source of information, because when I asked him how hypnosis is demonic or occult, he just mumbled his previous statement (that it was demonic and occult) and walked away. I really hope he's not in charge of the missionary section, that'd give a really bad impression to non-believers .

I would like to share my experiences of hypnotism when i was trying to stop smoking.

First the lady, a very lovely grandma type, sat me down in a very comfortable chair. We talked a bit and she asked why i was there. She told me about the music being played in the background, how it was designed specifically at a certain beats per minute to relax me. She told me what she was going to do, what she was going to say. She then got me to relax and she started talking to me (im assuming she was using the voice roll technique) I was fully conscious throughout the whole experience, i can remember her voice, i can remember how she repeated what she was saying over and over again.

There was nothing demonic absolutely nothing to do with the occult. Then she snapped me out of it. I felt amazing, happier than i had in ages. I felt refreshed and rejuvenated.

Im sure most of the people you asked have absolutely no experience, understanding or research in hypnotism. They are probably just regurgitating what someone else has told them.

I feel you must be congratulated on questioning the accepted view points of your church. Go to your church elders and ask them the questions, they wouldnt be elders if they didnt have the wisdom to answer your questions. If they dont then seek people from other churches, they may be able to answer your questions. Don't stop, ask the questions that you want to ask, dont stop asking until you have a satisfactory answer and never EVER accept 'just because' as an answer. Once you have found the answers your faith will have increased ten fold and your faith will be a shining example for all to follow.

Ohh and about the girls, if you lead a life according to the ten commandments (NOT the ones that other people have made up from interpretations of them) then the girls will see how much of an amazing, loving person you are and will want to be part of your life.

-Q

P.S. Change your name, you arent a loser, you seem to be an amazing, intelligent guy.

 

[T-Dawg]

I would like to share my experiences of hypnotism when i was trying to stop smoking.

First the lady, a very lovely grandma type, sat me down in a very comfortable chair. We talked a bit and she asked why i was there. She told me about the music being played in the background, how it was designed specifically at a certain beats per minute to relax me. She told me what she was going to do, what she was going to say. She then got me to relax and she started talking to me (im assuming she was using the voice roll technique) I was fully conscious throughout the whole experience, i can remember her voice, i can remember how she repeated what she was saying over and over again.

There was nothing demonic absolutely nothing to do with the occult. Then she snapped me out of it. I felt amazing, happier than i had in ages. I felt refreshed and rejuvenated.

Im sure most of the people you asked have absolutely no experience, understanding or research in hypnotism. They are probably just regurgitating what someone else has told them.

I feel you must be congratulated on questioning the accepted view points of your church. Go to your church elders and ask them the questions, they wouldnt be elders if they didnt have the wisdom to answer your questions. If they dont then seek people from other churches, they may be able to answer your questions. Don't stop, ask the questions that you want to ask, dont stop asking until you have a satisfactory answer and never EVER accept 'just because' as an answer. Once you have found the answers your faith will have increased ten fold and your faith will be a shining example for all to follow.

Ohh and about the girls, if you lead a life according to the ten commandments (NOT the ones that other people have made up from interpretations of them) then the girls will see how much of an amazing, loving person you are and will want to be part of your life.

-Q

P.S. Change your name, you arent a loser, you seem to be an amazing, intelligent guy.

Ah thanks. It sounds like you're thinking of hypnosis for therapic purposes (I was thinking of using it merely for pleasure and romantic bonding between couples), I've already decided that that's perfectly fine. I'm one of those people that find the very idea of hypnosis to carry a somewhat sexual nature, and from what I've researched, it's probably very pleasurable (although I'm probably not going to go for the hypnodommes, unless I can find one that's a hardcore Christian).
As it turns out, however, I had a very watered-down idea of what "erotic" was... apparently, from what I found out talking on the Inraptured forums (I'm not on there anymore, it turns out that they had an age limit... gah, they REALLY need to put "Adult Content" warnings SOMEWHERE in the site XD), when most men think "erotic hypnosis," they think of nudity, vaginal intercourse, worshipping the hypnotist, and things of that nature that I would consider downright scary and disturbing. When I think "erotic," I remember the warm, fuzzy, tingly feeling I got the first (and as of yet, the only) time I ever hugged a girl... it felt soooooo goooooood... and I was hoping that "erotic hypnosis" would be something similar to that feeling, and perhaps the exploration and indulging of one's fetishes (for me, I would probably be cuddling with a beautiful Indian girl in a silk dress with soft, beautiful feet...). But no, it turns out that it's way more... intense than I thought it would be. Meh, I did find a Christian friend who's also interested in this kind of hypnosis though, he might be able to help me find something.

Yah, they probably are uninformed in the hypnosis part (the majority of people are, according to most of my sources), but I think they (or at least my fourth source) might be on the right track with how far I should go with eros (note, I advocate the use of the Greek words for "love," they're so superior to the English word because they actually have a word for each kind of "love," so you don't have to wonder which "love" someone means) and hypnosis.

I question everything, not just the church. I used to question atheists a lot too, but they usually just go ballistic on me and make fun of me for being "a bible thumping, ignorant Christian" or something of that nature without actually giving me an answer, so I learned to just avoid atheists in general. Some (like the ones I've met so far on here) are fine, but many are like what I just described.

You're making fun of me, aren't you? If living by the 10 Commandments attracted women, then why have all of the crushes I've had so far hated me? If girls wanted a loving person, they would go head over heels for me... but no, me loving the girl is usually the very reason she denies me - my affection for her "creeps her out," or she "just wants to be friends," or she thinks I'm "stalking" her (and no, I don't actually stalk girls, I just find it pleasurable to know random things about them, and it makes me feel good when I follow them... and no, that's not stalking, for every time I've talked to a girl, she always had AT LEAST two other friends in her presence who spent just as much time with her as I did... and the girls I've liked never accused their other friends of "stalking" them. I think they were just looking for excuses.)

And yes, I am a loser, for the very reasons you just stated. Intelligent = loser here in America D=. They call us "nerds," "geeks," "weirdos," etc. And my name's just a tradition, my name in almost every site has either been "Loser" or "Jesusfreak," and Jesusfreak was already taken in this site, so I just went with Loser, and added a little humor to it (come on, isn't the idea of a Loser being Amazing funny? bah, I know my sense of humor sucks...)

 

[T-Dawg]

Hmm, I found an anti-hypnosis argument that actually tries to use the Bible to back it up: Hypnosis - Talk Jesus | Christian Forums
However, I think I've gotten most if not all of those points answered already:

Hypnosis is problematic for a Christian for several reasons:
1) The fruit of the Spirit is self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). As we follow the Spirit’s lead, He will give us the power to better control our own selves. Hypnosis involves the transfer of control away from ourselves to another person.
2) We are to yield ourselves—body, soul, and spirit—to God. Romans 6:12-13 gives us the formula for overcoming sin: “Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.” It’s about control—as Christians, we can let sin control us, or we can let God control us. (See also Romans 6:16-23; 1 Corinthians 6:9-12; and James 4:6-7.) The scriptural formula leaves no room for hypnosis (yielding ourselves to a fellow human being).
3) Hypnosis leads to an altered state of consciousness in which the mind is very susceptible to outside suggestion. That susceptibility is what the hypnotist needs in order to modify the behavior of his subject. However, the word “susceptible” should concern us. Scripture says to be watchful and “… self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8). The hypnotist is not the only one who wants to modify our behavior; Satan also wants to do some modifying, and we should be wary of giving him any opportunity to make his suggestions.
4) Hypnotism is often promoted as a simple way of “refocusing” ourselves and finding the answer within us. As believers in Christ, our focus is to be on our Savior, not on ourselves or anything else (Hebrews 12:2). We know that the answers do not lie within us (Romans 7:18); the solution we need is found in Christ (Romans 8:2).
5) Many of the techniques used in hypnosis are shared by mystical, philosophical, and religious systems, including the occult. The “father of hypnotism,” Franz Anton Mesmer—from whose name we get the word “mesmerize”—was himself a practitioner of the occult. His method of inducing a trance was very similar to the way a medium conducts a séance. Hypnotism, along with yoga and transcendental meditation, has always been linked to spiritual darkness. The newfound respectability of these practices has not changed their underlying nature.

1) Galatians 5:22-23 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law"
Wasn't the argument that one of the fruits of the spirit was self control? I don't see that listed anywhere...
2) This one makes a little sense. But "yielding control to another human being" is an exaggeration under most cases - there's an "inner guard" in our subconcious that prevents us from going against our morals, although I've heard that a few of the hypnodommes have ways to bypass this guard once you get into them enough (hence, I would recommend not letting yourself be hypnotized by internet strangers unless you KNOW that they are trustworthy). Also, what about self hypnosis?
3) Satan's not going to be modifying anything. The hypnotist ensures that the person's focus is on whatever they want their focus to be on, there's no room for Satan to get in (besides that, under the same logic, Jesus could also get in to help us). If Satan tried to make any suggestions, we probably wouldn't notice them.
4) I might be mistaken, but I'm reasonably sure that somewhere in the Bible it says that upon accepting Christ, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside you. Thus, if you try to look inside yourself (and you're a Christian), you should see the Holy Spirit right in there.
5) For the last time, hypnosis is NOT linked to the occult. As several sources point out, people undergo some form of hypnosis every day (do you need me to provide examples?).
Needless to say though, this was the only well thought out anti-hypnosis argument so far though...

 

[The Neo Nerd]

You're making fun of me, aren't you? If living by the 10 Commandments attracted women, then why have all of the crushes I've had so far hated me? If girls wanted a loving person, they would go head over heels for me... but no, me loving the girl is usually the very reason she denies me - my affection for her "creeps her out," or she "just wants to be friends," or she thinks I'm "stalking" her (and no, I don't actually stalk girls, I just find it pleasurable to know random things about them, and it makes me feel good when I follow them... and no, that's not stalking, for every time I've talked to a girl, she always had AT LEAST two other friends in her presence who spent just as much time with her as I did... and the girls I've liked never accused their other friends of "stalking" them. I think they were just looking for excuses.)

Most girls like nice guys (of course there is the odd one or two who go for the bad guy, but they almost always have butt loads of issues) While im a pagan i can see the beauty in those ten little rules. Especially the one about love your neighbour, the rest should come from that one little rule. Be a nice guy, be their friend. If you put girls up on a pedestal you will be awkward around them. Don't treat them like sex symbolsTrust me they are just as f'd up as guys. Let them get to know you and they will see that you are a great guy. LEt's face it if a girl is to immature to like you for the person you are on the inside then are they really the type of girl you want to be with. Im not exceptionally pretty at all but i've been with some exceptionally hot girls because i treat them with respect and kindness.

Perhaps some girls on this forum would like to add there thoughts on this for him.

And yes, I am a loser, for the very reasons you just stated. Intelligent = loser here in America D=. They call us "nerds," "geeks," "weirdos," etc. And my name's just a tradition, my name in almost every site has either been "Loser" or "Jesusfreak," and Jesusfreak was already taken in this site, so I just went with Loser, and added a little humor to it (come on, isn't the idea of a Loser being Amazing funny? bah, I know my sense of humor sucks...)

I hope god doesnt mind me stealing from his book, he can send his copyright team after me if her likes:

'The geek shall inherit the earth'

You are who you are, there is no point lamenting the fact that you arent a jock, so go with what you know.

-Q

 

[T-Dawg]

I tried all that. I've tried being nice, I've tried being their friend. I don't treat them like sex symbols, and for some reason, they never want to get to know me. I'm boring and have no life.
Besides religion, video games (both playing and producing, although I'm still learning how to produce), girls, and recently, hypnosis, I have virtually no interests. Life just doesn't appeal to me. I could never understand how Normal people derive pleasure from, say, running around outside, or playing sports, and "small talk" is both extremely ineffective and difficult (like I've always said, you can't build a tower of relationship by starting with small blocks - it'll lose balance and topple when you start adding the big stuff if it's foundation is in the "small talk").

Who says I wanted to be a jock? Who says I didn't want to be a geek? I'm simply stating that me being smart makes me a "loser."

EDIT: Isn't that verse supposed to go "The meek shall inherit the earth"?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Hey Amazing,

How old are you?

-Q

 

[Phasmid]

YouTube - Penn & Teller: Bull****! Hypnosis Part I

 

[Kathryn]

Wow, I can't see the harm in it between two consensual partners. However, I do question the NEED for it.

Adventure, fantasy, romance, creativity, etc. are GREAT to interject into a marriage, especially into the bedroom. In fact, I would say they are prerequisites for continuing the passion in a marriage over the years.

However, in my own personal life, I draw the line at interjecting some things into the bedroom. Those would be mind altering substances (other than a glass or two of wine or a couple of martinis on a date with my husband), other people, animals, and hard core pornography. I think one runs the risk of becoming dependent on more and more external stimulation - and that can lead to problems.

That being said, I would personally probably lump hypnotism into the same category - but then, to be honest I am skeptical of some of the claims of hypnotists, probably due to the fact that apparently I can't be hypnotized.

Which frankly is fine by me.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

To be honest I am skeptical of some of the claims of hypnotists, probably due to the fact that apparently I can't be hypnotized.

Hey Kathryn,

Read the link i posted. You may not be able to be made to cluck like a chicken (people can't be hypnotised like that without allowing themselves to be) but no one with higher brain functions is immune to hypnotic/mind altering techniques. In fact most of the techniques rely on people being unaware that they are happening. Forwarned is Forarmed.

-Q

 

[Kathryn]

Hey Kathryn,

Read the link i posted. You may not be able to be made to cluck like a chicken (people can't be hypnotised like that without allowing themselves to be) but no one with higher brain functions is immune to hypnotic/mind altering techniques. In fact most of the techniques rely on people being unaware that they are happening. Forwarned is Forarmed.

-Q

Thanks for the link. I've been to numerous events such as described in that link, and as I said before, I am a skeptic. I actually find such events to be humorous, predictable, and basically tacky. I haven't "fallen" for such nonsense, but I know that looking around me, others are.

Now what I'm describing is a "tent revival" sort of thing, which I am assuming the writer of the article is also describing. I am NOT describing a typical event that is not "charismatic" or "snake handling" in nature. I've also attended church on a regular basis my entire life and I've seen lives and hearts truly changed during some beautiful services. I've experienced healing myself and for my family, both physical and emotional.

I do believe in miracles and I believe in God's grace. I believe that when we face our own sinfulness, take responsibility for our actions, and accept God's grace, it can be quite emotional. I don't consider that sort of inner conversion to necessarily be a response to mass hypnosis.

I think it's too broad a description. It boils down to each individual before God.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Thanks for the link. I've been to numerous events such as described in that link, and as I said before, I am a skeptic. I actually find such events to be humorous, predictable, and basically tacky. I haven't "fallen" for such nonsense, but I know that looking around me, others are.

I am a skeptic on this too. But a christian friend of mine says he went to one of the shows and was hypnotised and he was made to do some very strange things. Him being christian lends some credence to his experience as most christians

a. arent allowed to lie (its one of the rules)
b. would be opposed to hypnosis so confirming its reality would lead me to think that it can happen.

While i may be a skeptic on the subject i cant just ignore the evidence. More research is needed on that particular type of hypnosis.

Now what I'm describing is a "tent revival" sort of thing, which I am assuming the writer of the article is also describing. I am NOT describing a typical event that is not "charismatic" or "snake handling" in nature. I've also attended church on a regular basis my entire life and I've seen lives and hearts truly changed during some beautiful services. I've experienced healing myself and for my family, both physical and emotional.

The mind can have an amazing affect on the body. People who are stressed or upset will get sick. Cancer has been linked to stress. Look at the eastern philosophy of Ki amazing things can be done if you know how to use your mind.

 

[Comicaze247]

You personally think? You PERSONALLY think? Gah, are there really so many tranlations for the Bible that each person has his own these days? D=

Actually, yes. Each person also has their own version of you, and of me, and of the computers they're looking at. All in their head. It's all perception. Everyone perceives things in different ways (not to derail your thread). So different people will take the Bible and its passages in different ways.

Back on topic, I haven't read the Bible in a looooong time (haven't been Catholic for . . . 3-4 years?), but I don't recall anything about hypnosis. But I'll think of it this way: if you were to go back to the time of Jesus Christ and performed hypnosis on someone, they'd likely see it as magic. And from what I recall, anything "magic" not done by "God" or any of his prophets is evil. So they would all think it's evil, and it would likely go into the Bible that it was, since it wasn't Jesus or his disciples doing it.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Actually, yes. Each person also has their own version of you, and of me, and of the computers they're looking at. All in their head. It's all perception. Everyone perceives things in different ways (not to derail your thread). So different people will take the Bible and its passages in different ways.

We covered something like that in class last week. The concept of perception = reality. I find this concept, while being true, absolutely ludicrous. Reality is facts not perception. If your perceptions have no fact or no proof then how can that be reality? It's stupid, it's immature and intellectually retarded but its just the way it is.

Now upon accepting that perception equals reality. It is therefore obvious that we can extrapolate to mean that peoples perception of some greater power (and that need for a greater power is imbedded deep within the human psyche) will determine it's reality.

Ponder the guy i knew who told me he saw jesus. Yep he saw jesus, the big J man himself. He had not eaten or drunk anything for 3 days (aka fasting) he saw jesus coming to him enshrouded it the most glorious light. Now i will give half my frubals to any person who can give me ANY reason to think that that vision was ANYTHING but delirium and hullucinations brought on from NOT EATING OR DRINKING FOR 3 DAYS. Do you think if he has a follower fo Asatru he wouldn't have seen Odin bedecked in furs and carrying a hammer.

There are much easier ways to obtain altered states of consciousness and commune with your dieties. Ask a shaman they have ways that wont kill you.

In summary:

Peoples perceptions of a higher power will affect their reality of the higher power. Thats why there are many differents gods and beliefs.

To summarise the summary:

People are stupid.

-Q

P.S. The first person who points the quote from the Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy gets a frubal.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Ooh wait weren't we talking about hypnotism?

Hmmmm

-Q