I almost choked to death on pizza!

[setarcos]

How does intelligent design translate into the absolute necessity for perfected design according to certain criteria?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How does intelligent design translate into the absolute necessity for perfected design according to certain criteria?

No one is demanding perfection. But if one claims "intelligent" design one has to explain endless stupid design features.

Evolution runs on "Does it work good enough?". That explains how all sorts of bad design exists. ID believers do not seem to be able to justify any of our flaws.

 

[tas8831]

How does intelligent design translate into the absolute necessity for perfected design according to certain criteria?

Seeing as how ID advocates claim the 'intelligent designer' is their preferred omniscient deity, it stands to reason (implied by them, any way) that their perfect deity can only produce perfect creations.

 

[setarcos]

Seeing as how ID advocates claim the 'intelligent designer' is their preferred omniscient deity, it stands to reason (implied by them, any way) that their perfect deity can only produce perfect creations.

If by perfect deity you are referring mainly to the Judeo-Christian God then I would say that those ID advocates don't know their own religion.
It has been declared in the bible that nature has fallen with the demise of man. A fallen nature is not representative of a perfected nature.
This is a misunderstanding I believe.

 

[setarcos]

No one is demanding perfection. But if one claims "intelligent" design one has to explain endless stupid design features.

Evolution runs on "Does it work good enough?". That explains how all sorts of bad design exists. ID believers do not seem to be able to justify any of our flaws.

Endless? IF an intelligent creator exists AND created this existence then why does one have to explain what we might consider design flaws?
One would have to know the motive of creating in the first place. Perhaps the design flaws are doing exactly what they were designed to do in some manner, and I don't mean for strictly natural physical reasons.
Like I posted to tas 8833, IF you believe in the Christian view point, nature has fallen from its original purpose. What exactly that entails I'm not sure but it would seem to indicate that this nature is only a reflection of what the designer intended until mankind screwed up in some manner.

 

[setarcos]

Also, there are other theories of intelligent design other than those that require a benevolent being who is perfect in every way which created a perfect creation whatever that would be.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That is what you get for arguing with a giraffe. Or is he a koala? I am not sure. He won't say for sure. He only denies that he is a human being.

Oh. I understand now. I thought he was not an Abe. I wasn't sure which Abe. Lincoln? Vigoda?

 

[Firelight]

Didn't need to. But thanks for playing.

I didn’t play your humdrum game of worthless banter. Don’t be so weakened by rejection that you must assume victory for a game not played.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh. I understand now. I thought he was not an Abe. I wasn't sure which Abe. Lincoln? Vigoda?

Hmm, I never considered that it might have been a spelling error.

Could you please ask him for me "Are you claiming not to be human?" That should settle it. If he says "No" then obviously it was a spelling error.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn’t play your humdrum game of worthless banter. Don’t be so weakened by rejection that you must assume victory for a game not played.

Of course his post was not an assumption. It was a reasonable conclusion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't believe in ID because I have epilepsy. In an "intelligent design" there would be no imperfections so no crazy spasms of the neurons (no cancer and so forth). These things aren't caused by "man." We can contribute to it's possible cause but we don't know our bodies (and brains) like that to be "God."

Life isn't ordered. Maybe an ordered unordered life or purposeful spontaneity in life but nothing designed and no pattern.

 

[tas8831]

If by perfect deity you are referring mainly to the Judeo-Christian God then I would say that those ID advocates don't know their own religion.

Agreed. They also do not seem to understand science.
On this very forum, many creationists have claimed or implied such things as Adam was perfect - or at least his genome was. I see it quite a bit, actually.

It has been declared in the bible that nature has fallen with the demise of man. A fallen nature is not representative of a perfected nature.
This is a misunderstanding I believe.

Indeed.

 

[setarcos]

Agreed. They also do not seem to understand science.
On this very forum, many creationists have claimed or implied such things as Adam was perfect - or at least his genome was. I see it quite a bit, actually.

Indeed.

Supposedly Adam WAS a perfect man, what ever that would be. Consider of course that the word Adam while referred to as a specific individual, especially in the new testament, in the OT may have referred to a species. And then again consider that after what ever happened in the "Garden" happened, this man Adam and his wife lost whatever perfection they had in the beginning and started to "degrade" so to speak from perfection. I think most people miss this point. In Christianity and outside of it. Nature, while it may have started out in some manner of perfection, lost - according to the biblical scriptures- that perfection and started to degrade or became degraded in some manner. In that respect, this nature we're living in now is only a dim reflection of what it once was in many respects.
In this light, I think that to look at the human flaws in our mental and physical states now is not quite a reflection of what its perfected state may have been.
To see flaws in nature now does not in themselves prove the non-existence of their deliberate design. Nor would they necessarily reflect the limitations of the abilities of a designer. Many religious people get ahead of themselves in attempting to prove what they feel is true. This often only ends in looking ridiculous or naive . On the other hand, many non-religious persons rush to judge the existence of an intelligent and deliberate creator based upon their own projections of what that creator should have done if it exists and created this creation. Arrogance and pride on both sides of the issue.