I am a non-believer and have some questions

[Altfish]

If it exists how else could it be perceived except as a threat? God loves us so much he put up a warning sign. Hell, do not enter

But why would an ever loving god even conceive of such a place. And more to the point, you could lead an exemplary life but fail to accept god and his son and you are still sent there!! Yet a mass murderer who repents near the end of his life and accepts JC and finds god, is in.
What absolute rubbish justice that is.

Sorry, but hell is a man-made concept invented to keep the flock under control.

 

[Kemosloby]

But why would an ever loving god even conceive of such a place. And more to the point, you could lead an exemplary life but fail to accept god and his son and you are still sent there!! Yet a mass murderer who repents near the end of his life and accepts JC and finds god, is in.
What absolute rubbish justice that is.

Sorry, but hell is a man-made concept invented to keep the flock under control.

I don't know of that ever happening, a mass murderer repenting. But in the bible when they stoned Stephen he prayed to God to forgive them. So perhaps you're a little hard hearted towards sinners. God sent his Son to save sinners. If someone repents and is forgiven that's a good thing. But you who believe Hell is so terrible only seek punishment for sinners.

 

[Altfish]

I don't know of that ever happening, a mass murderer repenting. But in the bible when they stoned Stephen he prayed to God to forgive them. So perhaps you're a little hard hearted towards sinners. God sent his Son to save sinners. If someone repents and is forgiven that's a good thing. But you who believe Hell is so terrible only seek punishment for sinners.

A simple google search throws up many examples of repentance of murderers...I chose the first one...
Choose the Right Path: A Message From a Repentant Murderer

Lovely book the Bible - stonings, great. I prefer Stephen King.
I'm hard hearted towards killers who god prefers to atheists.

"But you who believe Hell is so terrible only seek punishment for sinners." I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand, we DO NOT believe hell is terrible; we don't believe it exists.

 

[Kemosloby]

A simple google search throws up many examples of repentance of murderers...I chose the first one...
Choose the Right Path: A Message From a Repentant Murderer

Lovely book the Bible - stonings, great. I prefer Stephen King.
I'm hard hearted towards killers who god prefers to atheists.

"But you who believe Hell is so terrible only seek punishment for sinners." I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand, we DO NOT believe hell is terrible; we don't believe it exists.

Oh you need a twisted imaginary plot? Why are the murderers alive long enough to repent? God says a murderer must be killed. Simple and straightforward until the atheist libs come along and say no death penalty. So you go against God, spare the murderers and they steal your place. Seems fair enough.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Did you just want to have a reasonable reason why a loving god sends people to hell or do you feel uneasy that you may not go to heaven because you dont believe in god?

Playing devils advocate, a loving god doesnt "send" people to hell. Hell is when people are stuck in sin. If they feel they need to be redeemed by someone else to experience a new life, (heaven), so be. But hell is a state of mind. I agree with @Neo Deist that if hell exists it wast for people to go to. I also agree that its the Church's invention. Thats why people always live in a state and cycle of crucifiction, repentence, and resurrection. Its meant to change ones mind and life to be one with god. It has nothing to do with fear. Thats all people.

What I am trying to understand here is that God said that there is no excuse for not believing in him and, therefore, nothing more needs to be done on his part to try and convince others of his existence. But there is plenty of excuse because, as I stated in my opening post, there are plenty of honest open minded people like me who have looked into all the claimed evidence, debates, and the bible and are still not convinced.

This lack of conviction is not due to being some arrogant fool in denial; it is instead due to an honest open mindset. So clearly God would of known ahead of time that there are many open minded people out there who would still not be convinced. Therefore, the very fact that he is not frantic to try anymore to convince others to save them means that he is a lazy God. He is all powerful and he can obviously do so much more to try and convince others besides the flimsy "evidence" he has left for us that doesn't convince many honest open minded people such as me.

But he doesn't do anymore. So the fact that he is so lazy here means he does not care all that much about his human creations. If there were a loving parent in your life, then wouldn't you think that such a parent would not be all that loving and caring if he/she wasn't frantic and didn't do all that he/she could to save you from a hell of torment? Especially if this torment was everlasting. Furthermore, to then just leave you there to be tormented in hell and never get you out would be even more unloving and uncaring.

Anybody out there who would claim that this would still be an all loving and all just God clearly has a screw loose. I think it would obviously be asinine, absurd, and daft to think so. If this is who God truly is and he has a nice, kind, and loving attitude despite his apparent immoral nature, then he would obviously be an asinine, absurd, and daft God. Especially since even little children who die early and people in other parts of the world who never got the chance to hear or believe go to hell as well and never get out.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What I am trying to understand here is that God said that there is no excuse for not believing in him and, therefore, nothing more needs to be done on his part to try and convince others of his existence. But there is plenty of excuse because, as I stated in my opening post, there are plenty of honest open minded people like me who have looked into all the claimed evidence, debates, and the bible and are still not convinced.

This lack of conviction is not due to being some arrogant fool in denial; it is instead due to an honest open mindset. So clearly God would of known ahead of time that there are many open minded people out there who would still not be convinced. Therefore, the very fact that he is not frantic to try anymore to convince others to save them means that he is a lazy God. He is all powerful and he can obviously do so much more to try and convince others besides the flimsy "evidence" he has left for us that doesn't convince many honest open minded people such as me.

But he doesn't do anymore. So the fact that he is so lazy here means he does not care all that much about his human creations. If there were a loving parent in your life, then wouldn't you think that such a parent would not be all that loving and caring if he/she wasn't frantic to save you from a hell of torment? Especially if this torment was everlasting. Furthermore, to then just leave you there to be tormented in hell and never get you out would be even more unloving and uncaring.

Anybody out there who would claim that this would still be an all loving and all just God clearly has a screw loose. I think it would obviously be asinine, absurd, and daft to think so. If this is who God truly is and he has a nice, kind, and loving attitude despite his apparent immoral nature, then he would obviously be an asinine, absurd, and daft God. Especially since even little children who die early and people in other parts of the world who never got the chance to hear or believe go to hell as well as never get out.

Christianity, in my opinion, is not a humble faith. Regardless the denomination, the core message is "if you are not with god you loose out." It's a pure ultimatum belief system that is completely shaped by the Church, from the Church, and in many parts originated in the Church. Protestantism (non Catholics) are no different. They are a branch off the Church in rebellion so they still have a Church mindset though they may not admit it. I see it in all the denominational Churches I've gone to. From JW, Pentecostal, Non Denominational, Presbyterian, and southern baptist.

My question is, if god doesn't exist because all of you are convinced by lack of evidence, why is god's motives and morals important anymore?

A lot of open-minded people have gone there way because they see no use in believing in a god that is specific in who he loves. It's a choice just as you have a choice to treat your parent as a parent or leave and disown your parent. He/she will still be your parent; but, that's not the point. Creator or not, you'd still have to believe what this parent does is for the benefit for your well-being.

If it is not, why waste the time?



But I think you missed on what @Neo Deist said. Hell is created by the Church; and, in scripture, specifically, it is for satan not for humans. JW says that we cease to exist after we die until we are resurrected. That makes more sense because our bodies turn to ashes and how can our thoughts live on when they are part of our brain and body.

Get this, too. Fire, burning, and all of that are earthly things. A spirit cannot burn anymore than gravity can. Things and people (their flesh) can burn but if you are dead, how can you feel it? The logic behind eternal damnation and fire-hell does not make sense to a christian (not all christians) who believe people will burn forever all because they don't believe in god.

It's a fear and coercion and I hope you are not falling into it because if you see evidence that is against god and so forth, I honestly wouldn't waste your time trying to figure it out.

On the other hand,

If you do believe in god and you are doubting because evidence says otherwise, maybe you're going through a spiritual crisis. You don't have to be close-minded to believe in god. Many open-minded people believe in a creator. Maybe Christianity isn't your thing? Be more open and look at other god(s).

If you're just inquisitive, I don't know if you will get a solid answer because you can't really change christianity. It's an ugly faith. People changed the Jewish faith and made jesus into a god. Church made the hell-mindset (and I personally experienced this, unfortunately especially during Latin Mass and Latin Confession), and it tears people a part. To those who find benefit in christ may not have had that type of experience. But every thing we do have their drawbacks. It depends on what works for you.

What works for you?

 

[Muffled]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

I believe if you are saying you received the information and did not accept it then Hell is the place for you.

I believe if you have not received the information I can remedy that.

 

[Muffled]

That's much better news to hear, but I am looking for a debate with Christians and religious believers who somehow think that the typical fear mongering view of religion/God I described above somehow describes a morally righteous and all loving/all just nature.

I believe Christians tend to use the fear card because they really believe there is something to be feared and avoided.

 

[Muffled]

I would definitely repent and live my life for God because I would realize that upon the very 1st minute of being in hell that I would of already be begging to get out and that I wish I wasn't the one who chose to live in sin. If I believed he was real, then this would definitely happen no matter what because there is no way that I would choose to go to hell.

I believe He has proven He is real and that He does what He says He will do.

 

[Akivah]

Not to toot my own horn, but I have a Doctorate of Theology from seminary, so I might know a thing or two about the subject.

The concept of Hell is a fabrication by the Church that is used as a control mechanism.

It seems to me that the concept of Hell, while extremely effective as a control mechanism, is more than that. It is a reason for the entire Christian religion itself. Without Hell, there is no reason to be saved and by extension, no reason for a savior.

 

[Neo Deist]

It seems to me that the concept of Hell, while extremely effective as a control mechanism, is more than that. It is a reason for the entire Christian religion itself. Without Hell, there is no reason to be saved and by extension, no reason for a savior.

The traditional Christian belief can be summed up with this:

The traditional belief leaves so many unanswered questions it's not even funny.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I believe He has proven He is real and that He does what He says He will do.

Please read all of this and respond to it. You have missed my post here. It sums up the very core of my disbelief as well as my lack of conviction in the moral righteousness and goodness of God. I would kindly refer anyone here to this post as well. Especially for those types of Christians who think they still have every reason to think that me going to hell is justified and that the moral standards and acts of God are justified. That is the debate I wish to have here:

What I am trying to understand here is that God said that there is no excuse for not believing in him and, therefore, nothing more needs to be done on his part to try and convince others of his existence. But there is plenty of excuse because, as I stated in my opening post, there are plenty of honest open minded people like me who have looked into all the claimed evidence, debates, and the bible and are still not convinced.

This lack of conviction is not due to being some arrogant fool in denial; it is instead due to an honest open mindset. So clearly God would of known ahead of time that there are many open minded people out there who would still not be convinced. Therefore, the very fact that he is not frantic to try anymore to convince others to save them means that he is a lazy God. He is all powerful and he can obviously do so much more to try and convince others besides the flimsy "evidence" he has left for us that doesn't convince many honest open minded people such as me.

But he doesn't do anymore. So the fact that he is so lazy here means he does not care all that much about his human creations. If there were a loving parent in your life, then wouldn't you think that such a parent would not be all that loving and caring if he/she wasn't frantic and didn't do all that he/she could to save you from a hell of torment? Especially if this torment was everlasting. Furthermore, to then just leave you there to be tormented in hell and never get you out would be even more unloving and uncaring.

Anybody out there who would claim that this would still be an all loving and all just God clearly has a screw loose. I think it would obviously be asinine, absurd, and daft to think so. If this is who God truly is and he has a nice, kind, and loving attitude despite his apparent immoral nature, then he would obviously be an asinine, absurd, and daft God. Especially since even little children who die early and people in other parts of the world who never got the chance to hear or believe go to hell as well and never get out.

 

[allfoak]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

When i walked away from Christianity 30yrs ago i did not walk away from God.
What i told people was very simple, no god would ever condemn an honest search for the truth.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

There's no real foundation upon which to base it all on.

It's only preconceived ideologies in terms of morality for which morality itself remains subjective and determined by the individual as to courses of action in terms of feeds and such. We see all that throughout the course of history and the events that unfold around us right now.

We all know instinctively what is beneficial and destructive so I'd go with that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When i walked away from Christianity 30yrs ago i did not walk away from God.
What i told people was very simple, no god would ever condemn an honest search for the truth.

The truth will set you free.

 

[allfoak]

He only sends signs to those who read the bible, pray, seek him, etc. and I am not going to waste my life over something that could very well be nonsense in the first place which means that there is no way I can ever be convinced. He will never send me any sign since I am not going to bother seeking him and neither can I be convinced any other way since, as I said before, I have read everything I have needed to read and my final and honest mindset is undecided.



I am undecided with a bit of leaning towards the idea that Christianity and those other religions that pose hell are nonsense. But the small possibility still remains in my mind which is why I am debating. I am also debating because I think it is daft and absurd for anyone to think that such religions and such gods are all loving, all just, and morally righteous.

I want you to know that there are answers to these questions of yours.
I have spent a lifetime searching and paid a big price in many ways to do so.

First of all, you don't have to do what i did to find out.

All you have to do is change your perspective on some things and you will begin to find the answers for yourself.
The first perspective would be to stop asking someone else to give you answers.
If they could, there wouldn't be so many questions left unanswered.
The next thing to understand is that your whole life (everything that happens to you every moment of everyday), is evidence.
How could this be you say?
Simple, if we understand that our thoughts and emotions are nothing more than indicators of the direction our life is going, not who we are, we will begin to also see that changing the way we think and feel is possible.
Once this happens, a whole new world opens up.
There are rules to this game i call life that many are unaware of,one of them is used by Christians in a negative manner but it can be used in a positive way as well.
This rule is called cause and effect.
You reap what you sow.
This means that everything we say and do comes back to us.
We know it is true, many call it karma.
We experience it all the time, we don't always acknowledge it however.
If we began to recognize how our thoughts and emotions cause our life to happen we would strive to change them and therefore change our life.
Every negative thought and emotion is simply an indicator that we are not lined up with who we are and what we really want.
We can use these things to show us where we are going wrong and change.

Life is what it is because we are here to learn who we are and beyond that, begin to actually create our own lives, to be co -creators with our source.
There are other rules as well if learned will help us to begin to get to know who we are and why we are here.
One at a time.
Where is God in all of this?
Inside of you.
We are connected to God through our eternal soul, which is our actual creator.
God created our soul our soul created us.

Now before you go scrolling to another post looking for "more answers" thinking i am crazy, or that they are nice ideas but couldn't possibly be true, i assure you that everything i say can be worked out in a reasonable manner, no make believe.
Nothing but answers.
Ask me any question, i will debate whatever you like if you think it would help.
The way i see it is, if reason is rejected there is no place else to go, but if reason is used properly, answers can be found.
Intuition is the master but without the service of reason, intuition has no way of making sense.
So it is up to you, maybe i can convince you that you are your own answer, maybe not.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I want you to know that there are answers to these questions of yours.
I have spent a lifetime searching and paid a big price in many ways to do so.

First of all, you don't have to do what i did to find out.

All you have to do is change your perspective on some things and you will begin to find the answers for yourself.
The first perspective would be to stop asking someone else to give you answers.
If they could, there wouldn't be so many questions left unanswered.
The next thing to understand is that your whole life (everything that happens to you every moment of everyday), is evidence.
How could this be you say?
Simple, if we understand that our thoughts and emotions are nothing more than indicators of the direction our life is going, not who we are, we will begin to also see that changing the way we think and feel is possible.
Once this happens, a whole new world opens up.
There are rules to this game i call life that many are unaware of,one of them is used by Christians in a negative manner but it can be used in a positive way as well.
This rule is called cause and effect.
You reap what you sow.
This means that everything we say and do comes back to us.
We know it is true, many call it karma.
We experience it all the time, we don't always acknowledge it however.
If we began to recognize how our thoughts and emotions cause our life to happen we would strive to change them and therefore change our life.
Every negative thought and emotion is simply an indicator that we are not lined up with who we are and what we really want.
We can use these things to show us where we are going wrong and change.

Life is what it is because we are here to learn who we are and beyond that, begin to actually create our own lives, to be co -creators with our source.
There are other rules as well if learned will help us to begin to get to know who we are and why we are here.
One at a time.
Where is God in all of this?
Inside of you.
We are connected to God through our eternal soul, which is our actual creator.
God created our soul our soul created us.

Now before you go scrolling to another post looking for "more answers" thinking i am crazy, or that they are nice ideas but couldn't possibly be true, i assure you that everything i say can be worked out in a reasonable manner, no make believe.
Nothing but answers.
Ask me any question, i will debate whatever you like if you think it would help.
The way i see it is, if reason is rejected there is no place else to go, but if reason is used properly, answers can be found.
Intuition is the master but without the service of reason, intuition has no way of making sense.
So it is up to you, maybe i can convince you that you are your own answer, maybe not.

This is what I was wanting to debate here:

What I am trying to understand here is that God said that there is no excuse for not believing in him and, therefore, nothing more needs to be done on his part to try and convince others of his existence. But there is plenty of excuse because, as I stated in my opening post, there are plenty of honest open minded people like me who have looked into all the claimed evidence, debates, and the bible and are still not convinced.

This lack of conviction is not due to being some arrogant fool in denial; it is instead due to an honest open mindset. So clearly God would of known ahead of time that there are many open minded people out there who would still not be convinced. Therefore, the very fact that he is not frantic to try anymore to convince others to save them means that he is a lazy God. He is all powerful and he can obviously do so much more to try and convince others besides the flimsy "evidence" he has left for us that doesn't convince many honest open minded people such as me.

But he doesn't do anymore. So the fact that he is so lazy here means he does not care all that much about his human creations. If there were a loving parent in your life, then wouldn't you think that such a parent would not be all that loving and caring if he/she wasn't frantic and didn't do all that he/she could to save you from a hell of torment? Especially if this torment was everlasting. Furthermore, to then just leave you there to be tormented in hell and never get you out would be even more unloving and uncaring.

Anybody out there who would claim that this would still be an all loving and all just God clearly has a screw loose. I think it would obviously be asinine, absurd, and daft to think so. If this is who God truly is and he has a nice, kind, and loving attitude despite his apparent immoral nature, then he would obviously be an asinine, absurd, and daft God. Especially since even little children who die early and people in other parts of the world who never got the chance to hear or believe go to hell as well and never get out.

 

[allfoak]

This is what I was wanting to debate here:

i understand.
There is no excuse because you have been given the ability to find the answers within yourself.
Is this something that you have already considered?
Perhaps i am misunderstanding?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

i understand.
There is no excuse because you have been given the ability to find the answers within yourself.
Is this something that you have already considered?
Perhaps i am misunderstanding?

The answer comes through looking at all the claimed evidence and debates out there. I have come to a conclusion based on an honest open mindset and that conclusion would be undecided.

 

[InChrist]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

I just read this and think your doubts, questions, and thoughts are extremely valid. I personally don't think real Christianity is based on fear mongering, at least it wasn't for me when I searched for answers and first understood who Jesus Christ was, as I found freedom in His eternal love for me at age 36 over twenty-five years ago. As I looked back over the years before, I saw repeatedly how God did reveal Himself over and over giving me one opportunity after another to know Him and the truth. I believe He does the same for everyone, giving each person who seeks with an open, honest mind the chance to be fully convinced within their own heart and mind...while also leaving room and allowance for those who simply choose to refuse the truth even though they know it to be true. It is the latter who I believe are the ones who end up in hell. It is not because God is unloving, but I believe because life, eternal life with God only exists in the reality of truth and anything outside of this is suffering.