To address this, no I did not characterize women's only spaces as bad.So, you characterize "women's only spaces" as bad, but it really depends on the instances.
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To address this, no I did not characterize women's only spaces as bad.So, you characterize "women's only spaces" as bad, but it really depends on the instances.
I often hear this pejorative slung about the forums. A cute way to belittle those whose actual argument is different than one's own, when one's own falls short of any moral reasoning.
So, let's have at it. What are your gripes with me, the SJW?
I'm not easily offended, but that I am not offended doesn't mean I won't stand for justice.
Social Justice Warriors. People who are also collectively referred to the Regressive Left, or Illiberal Progressives.SJW?
Are you sure you are called a SJW for those reasons? Do you have examples? I am one of the people who is highly critical of the Social Justice movement (i.e. SJWs) and I have yet to see the SJW label being applied to people for something as general as advocating for equal rights or racial equality. While the goal of the person being called an SJW may be equal rights or racial equality, the actual label "SJW" is generally earned for things such as advocating for safe spaces, censorship, and so on. I do not think it is accurate to say that advocating for equal rights is what will get you labeled a SJW, it is how you go about advocating for equal rights (or your idea of equal rights) that earns the label.Some people consider me a SJW and others consider me a right-wing imperialist, often for campaigning for the same thing. For example when I advocate for racial equality in the USA, I'm a SJW and when I want it here in Asia, I'm an Imperialist. If I want equal rights for the GLBT community in the US, I'm a SJW but if I criticize Saudi Arabia for throwing gay people off buildings, I'm an imperialist.
I guess this means that as long as I'm pissing off all the right people I must be doing something right.
Are you sure you are called a SJW for those reasons? Do you have examples? I am one of the people who is highly critical of the Social Justice movement (i.e. SJWs) and I have yet to see the SJW label being applied to people for something as general as advocating for equal rights or racial equality. While the goal of the person being called an SJW may be equal rights or racial equality, the actual label "SJW" is generally earned for things such as advocating for safe spaces, censorship, and so on. I do not think it is accurate to say that advocating for equal rights is what will get you labeled a SJW, it is how you go about advocating for equal rights (or your idea of equal rights) that earns the label.
Never heard the term.
Never heard the term.
Super Jewel of a Woman?We need to hang out more. Stick with me and you'll see enough folks here at RF who will either infer the term or outright use the slur toward me.
May I be so blessed.But, regardless of whether or not you wish to hear it, we still need to hang out more.
Of course there's sexist elements in it. The GTA series is a satire of American culture and all the characters are basically stereotypes. There's racial/ethnic, gender and sexual orientation stereotypes of virtually all sorts (the "faggio" from Vice City comes to mind). The creators of GTA know this and the bigwigs at Rockstar recognize the issue with how they deal with female characters in the series. In none of the games (I haven't played GTA Online, so I can't comment on that) can you play as a female character. There's always female hookers you can bang (and kill to get your money back) and female strippers (with breasts being depicted in GTA, which really surprised me when I came across it when it first came out), who you can feel up while having a lapdance and then take home and screw. None of the playable characters have been LGB and/or T, either. You can't bang or date guys, either. There's no male hookers or strippers.Last night I was playing GTA V. Not once did I see anything sexist. I've never even been harassed in the game for being female and I've played it for hundreds of hours (my character in Online is female and i have a female name). The game is violently fun as hell, but not sexist.
What exactly is the problem with Zoe Quinn? The only thing I know about her is that she created Depression Quest to raise awareness of clinical depression and was viciously and repeatedly slandered, harassed and threatened about it.There are Brianna Wu, Zoe Quinn, Laci Green, Baha Mustafa, Steve Shives, article writers who write petty inane bull**** like how the word "too" is evil and sexist among others.
Hmm, you mentioned Milo Yiannopoulos (that's the "Milo" I assume you're referring to)...he's interesting, that one. It seems that he's ultimately a gay Uncle Tom or a token, really. A trap of a sort, if you will, to present a false face of "inclusiveness", same as how the few black neo-Confederates are bandied about by their white cohorts. He's got some real cognitive dissonance going on since he's a flamboyant queen and yet has thrown in with the "alt-right" (including calling Trump "Daddy", which is ****ing nauseating and shows that he has horrid taste in men), which will never accept his kind and would kill him if they got into power. He's the fairy flipside of another confused one, Jack Donovan, who is a self-hating gay guy who hates gay culture, femininity and has thrown in with white power, neo-tribalist, anti-feminist types who promote brutality and social collapse as a way for violent masculinity to flourish. (They recently did an interview together, which is funny since Jackie boy hates queens like Milo and wants them to disappear.) They're both in for a rude awakening. They'll be hanging from trees right next to me if their buddies have their way. The most "acceptance" they'll ever get from their "friends" are uncomfortable nods from a distance. They're just ultimately expendable tools that are a means to an end.Hate circus? Ha! You know who was a hate circus? The goddamned News. First your "Right Wing" was all up in arms that video games were murder simulators causing school shootings. Labeling anyone who liked to play games as a sociopath. Then the "Left Wing" decided to paint them all as sexist ******** after Gamergate, led by the self proclaimed feminists. (Seriously, does everything in America revolve around politics? Over here most people only grudgingly vote because they don't want to pay a fine.) Even Al Jazeera did a rather lopsided report on Brianna Wu and Gamergate. Which was......odd. I mean what the hell would Al Jazeera care? Slow week in the war torn countries they usually report on?
Even unrelated sites like I ****ing Love Science was reporting (one sided) on Gamergate. Not sure what that had to do with Science or Science Journalism but okay.
When Tim Hunt allegedly made a comment (really an off color joke at his own expense) about "sex segregated science labs" it was a veritable witch hunt led by the loudest feminist voices that I have seen in ages. All based on the word by a so called "journalist" in attendance. Milo later called her out on this appalling lack of professionalism and asked why she ignored such basic journalistic ethical standards and what does she do? Hide behind the "oh the big bad sexist people are attacking feminists again" excuse. Despicable. The woman doesn't even apologize for ruining a man's reputation or costing us a valuable ally in Cancer research. Not even remorse was shown. Just "how dare you, a man, go against me. You sexist pigdog."
When an artist who did fan art about Steven Universe on Tumblr had a lynching mob after her, it was led by so called "SJWs" who accused her of being "insensitive" towards Steven Universe. Not sure how you can be insensitive towards a cartoon, but whatever. Even the creator of SU was appalled. There was even talk that the poor kid (barely 16 I think) might have committed suicide. Though thankfully she resurfaced alive.
When Shirtgate happened, the loudest voices calling for his head were self proclaimed feminists. The poor guy was in tears sobbing an apology.
Baha Mustafa led an "open to all except white men" seminar about cultural sensitivity. When people called her out on such hypocritical and segregationist behavior she responded that "racism is power + privilege." Gag me.
She was later alleged to have made highly racially charged comments towards another student (who was a minority at her school) and allegedly bullied said student for a period of months. But she's not a racist.
These are all highly public instances (either IRL or online or both) that have pretty much damaged the reputation of the Feminist and SJW movements. As they say, there's no smoke without fire.
All of them involved people who very vocally and publicly allied with Feminism or SJWs or both. When asked why there was no pressure from the Feminist or SJW movements to call into question such actions or reign them in, the response seemed to be "Feminism is a vast movement filled with a wide variety of opinions. It is not homogeneous, there are just people like that that exist within the movement. What can we do?"
Or some variety of that response. You know what else has a wide variety of opinions, arguably much more varied than all the world's feminist movements combined? Hinduism. And even still, Hindus will go out of their way to condemn another Hindu who has publicly disgraced them. It's almost a point of honor for them.
With the SJW's? It's like they actively deny responsibility for their own actions and instead demand that the other side do the same for trolls who may or may not be attached to said movement (honestly, trolls will latch onto movements for research into a cure for Alzheimers if it means they can rile people up. So, probably not a good idea to think they support any movement whatsoever. Even if they crop up.) Even still, the most vocal of the "other side" do publicly bash sexist or harassing behavior all the freaking time.
You want me to say that "Gamergate" were full of sexist ******** that needed to be booted from the movement? Fine. They were idiotic wastes of space who the movement didn't do a good enough job weeding out. That was their ultimate downfall for which the movement needs to take responsibility for.
Like honestly, mate, throw me a bone here. What exactly do you want? Short of tracking down every ******* who took advantage of the situation to harass or otherwise demean Zoe or Anita in order to set them straight, what can I do that will make you happy? Please, tell me.
But what of these people claiming to be SJWs and/or public Feminists? Should we should not hold feminists or SJWs (or people claiming they are one or the other or both) responsible for their own actions like all grown up are supposed to do anyway?
I'm willing to grant that in all instances there were trolls and therefore the movements are not responsible for them. But in the case of Tim Hunt, there were non anonymous discussions from people who did proclaim to be feminists calling for his resignation. Particularly on I ****ing Love Science. The Journo who started that debacle did publicly debate people like Milo, a right wing journo, on a public broadcast TV show I think in the UK. (You know? Those debate type shows with an audience giving their thoughts on the matter.) And non anonymous people claiming to be Feminists supported her cowardly retorts.
It was sort of similar for Baha Mustafa. At least on YouTube (most prominent members of both sides have been doxxed ages ago, so there's little anonymity.)
Shirtgate you can successfully argue was nothing but trolls. Maybe with any Tumblr instance, though still appalling nonetheless.
I only bring this up to illustrate that the abuse the "other side" is often accused of happens almost exclusively in the realm of anonymity. Therefore it's not unreasonable to assume it's mainly random trolls not affiliated with anyone stirring up trouble as per usual.
Though again, any movement on the "other side" do need to try to reign such appalling behavior in.
With the SJWs and the Feminists, it's more so half half. Some of it happens in anonymity, meaning it's the same. Trolls not affiliated with anyone stoking the fires for the lolz. But some of it is legitimate and public. Course that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't trolling, but it's usually easier to spot who's just trying to cause trouble.
This online stuff is very hard to Police. Because trolls are literally nobodies. You can't go out and find them in order to maintain discipline within whatever movement they are a part of. You can't even definitively prove they are a part of the movement they proclaim to be "defending/serving."The best you can do is say publicly that such behavior is unwarranted. (Again many prolific members of GG or Anti Anitas have done so, numerous times.)
When it's not very anonymous and even more so when it involves "famous" people of the movement doing something publicly, it's very easy to point to the behavior and say specifically that this is caused by a person who is a part of the movement they proclaim to be a part of. I can very easily, for example, state definitively that Laughing Witch or Kevin "Potato" Logan are vocal members of the YouTube SJW community. Whether or not they are well received in that particular branch of SJW community I honestly can't say for certain. Though the loudest condemnation of their despicable behavior does seem to come from their opponents, rather than the YT SJW community themselves. Though to be fair, when Potato publicly mocked Thunderf00t for grieving over his father who died of cancer, there was a bit more dissent in his comments than usual. Even people claiming they hated Thundy seemed disgusted.
Hopefully that explains why the "other side" sees this entire debate as hypocritical and without intellectual merit on the part of their opponents. I probably only half agree with them as far as that all goes, so to speak.
If you, @MysticSang'ha are being harassed or fear for your safety, report the ******** to the Police, so that they may face accountability and justice (hopefully) for their appalling behavior. If you want to name and shame them, I would be more than happy to publicly rebuke them for doing such disgusting actions on behalf of whatever movement they claim to be a part of. I would even encourage others to do the same wherever and whenever I can.
If you think there is a precedent set that allows for these types of actions to go unpunished by the movements (MRAs, SJWs whoever) then I'd probably agree. Though I would point out that both sides are responsible for setting it. Anita gets let off the hook for everything she does wrong because the focus is on the harassment rather than the merit of her arguments, or lack thereof, by the Feminists. Therefore saying that it's okay to not take responsibility for your actions, provided you can prove you are called demeaning names from alleged sexists. I'd argue that when Milo called out Constance for her behavior, that exact precedent was one she fell back on. Among other instances.
The MRA's/Gamergaters/Anti feminists (still not 100% sure I'm very familiar with the MRA cause) would be responsible for not calling out the GGs/MRAs/AFs who crash feminist rallies/discussions to cause trouble or harass people.
Hmm, you mentioned Milo Yiannopoulos (that's the "Milo" I assume you're referring to)...he's interesting, that one. It seems that he's ultimately a gay Uncle Tom or a token, really. A trap of a sort, if you will, to present a false face of "inclusiveness", same as how the few black neo-Confederates are bandied about by their white cohorts. He's got some real cognitive dissonance going on since he's a flamboyant queen and yet has thrown in with the "alt-right" (including calling Trump "Daddy", which is ****ing nauseating and shows that he has horrid taste in men), which will never accept his kind and would kill him if they got into power. He's the fairy flipside of another confused one, Jack Donovan, who is a self-hating gay guy who hates gay culture, femininity and has thrown in with white power, neo-tribalist, anti-feminist types who promote brutality and social collapse as a way for violent masculinity to flourish. (They recently did an interview together, which is funny since Jackie boy hates queens like Milo and wants them to disappear.) They're both in for a rude awakening. They'll be hanging from trees right next to me if their buddies have their way. The most "acceptance" they'll ever get from their "friends" are uncomfortable nods from a distance. They're just ultimately expendable tools that are a means to an end.
(Let Milo take his *** back to his homeland of Greece and let him see how the true face of the "alt-right" movement, such as Golden Dawn (which is what the "alt-right" movement is really about when the mask finally falls), really feels about his kind. It would be RIP, Milo. He can take Jack with him.)
Sad, confused, idiotic people. Reminds me of my self-hating phase when I was into far-right nonsense. I was even friendly with a white power skinhead for a time, so I know how it goes. They don't mind using their stated enemies as cannon fodder for the cause. There's a long history of radical right-wing movements using self-hating non-whites, Jews, gays, etc. for their own ends, which always ends up badly for the non-whites, Jews, gays, etc. They love to prey on those who have identity issues.
Well, I can understand feeling distant from it but things are getting increasingly frightening in America. If things keep getting worse, it's not just going to be our problem. Far-right nuttery is also on a definite rise in Europe. People like Milos and Trump are part of the American face of neo-reactionary creeping neo-fascism.I won't argue politics, because quite frankly the most I know about American Politics is Left wing Right wing and that's it. Oh and Bill O'Reiley (sp?) is the "**** it we'll do it live" guy on YouTube. Uncle Tom and Neo Confederates and alt right have no meaning to me.
If I'm honest, we are all laughing our asses off at Trump.
I myself, disagree with much of Milo's political views, but I do side with him when he takes to task other journos for displays of utter lack of integrity and dishonesty. Which is why I mentioned him in the first place.
What exactly is the problem with Zoe Quinn? The only thing I know about her is that she created Depression Quest to raise awareness of clinical depression and was viciously and repeatedly slandered, harassed and threatened about it.
I don't know much about the whole "Gamergate" thing because I don't identify as a part of gaming culture and don't follow it all that much, although I have been playing games since I was a child. I just prefer to play them by myself and think that gaming culture is too full of immature little boys to bother with. I am not into "nerd culture" in general.
Too conspiratorial for my tastes. I did notice that people were claiming that she slept around in order to have good reviews, but that turned out to be wrong. I haven't played her game, but I've seen it. I don't see anything wrong with it and I support any effort to raise awareness of clinical depression.Ahh so you're unfamiliar with the "Quinnspiracy." I take it.
First of all, her so called "game" (if you could call it that, it was pathetically outdated) was rubbish and got suspiciously good reviews. Not only that but people with actual depression reported that it did not accurately represent depression. Allegedly.
Now for years, Gamers have suspected corruption in the Gaming Media. Journos getting various favors from Devs (game developers) in order for better promotions, reviews and PR. Course no one had any proof except for shady behavior every once in a while.
Quinn, it is alleged, slept with various Journos in exchange for good reviews and even if she did not (her sexual behavior is neither here nor there) there was a document found that contained a sort of list of prominent Journos, allegedly belonging to Quinn. Kind of like a list of people to suck up to in order to further your career.
This was the straw that broke the camel's back. A twitter campaign full of angry consumers exploded, taking with it many trolls looking to cause trouble. As is often the case with......well anything related to Twitter.
Now instead of the Games Media assuaging concerns with a public announcement of an inquiry or whatever PR stunt to get in the good books of their customers they could manage after such backlash (which everyone was kind of expecting) they instead sided with Zoe and hid behind the trolling she received in order to brush aside any and all debate about the issues. This in turn angered the consumers because it was proof to them of corruption.And back and forth and back and forth so on and so forth.
Ironically enough, Zoe was only kept relevant to the fallout that followed due to Zoe herself. Constantly popping her head up on various news reports to lament the comments she received. (Though did you notice that the stories presented were often one sided, with kind of generic run of the mill troll comments, not even using any hashtag let alone the GG hashtag being paraded out as "proof" of Gamergate harassing her? Talk about shoddy Journalism. Not even the sensationalist A Current Affair would be that blatantly under researched and they're a laughing stock.) Because truth be told the GG hashtag during it's height, kind of didn't mention her very often. It was the Anti GG side that kept bringing her up, but the discussion had moved past her before the media coverage even began.
But it was kind of creepy to see the World's Journalists suddenly have the exact same narrative about gamers. Oh they're sexists, oh look they're bashing women, oh poor Brianna and Zoe and Anita. Oh we must protect them from the evil gamers. And like I said before, even Journalists with nothing whatsoever to do with Gaming were suddenly pitching in to call out the evil gamers.
Didn't exactly smooth things over with a consumer base already pissed off at being ignored by the very media claiming to represent their interests.
Now I kind of tried to side step the entire thing, occasionally being dragged into debates on the various games sites I visit. Because the entire GG thing is.....well idiotic.
But I'd be lying if I said I didn't know why people like Zoe, Anita or Brianna get the backlash they do. And believe it or not, most of it is not sexist idiotic comments.
Too conspiratorial for my tastes. I did notice that people were claiming that she slept around in order to have good reviews, but that turned out to be wrong. I haven't played her game, but I've seen it. I don't see anything wrong with it and I support any effort to raise awareness of clinical depression.
Personally, I do think that gaming culture should be more regulated and people making nasty remarks should be booted. Should probably separate minors from adults, too. I just bought a subscription to Xbox Live and I really don't feel like playing games with teenage boys. I barely even like my own peers. Lol.