I Am Guilty

[Father Heathen]

Contradiction believing in God is a religious belief.

Religion implies a system of worship, tenets, dogma, etc.
One can believe in such an entity or force and it completely separate from their personal principles and philosophy.

 

[sloth]

In my opinion that is a pure position. I think that forming one's beliefs around a religion is the wrong way to go about things anyway. I think one should find the religion that matches what he already believes. Religion is a descriptor, do not forget.

 

[shunyadragon]

Religion implies a system of worship, tenets, dogma, etc.
One can believe in such an entity or force and it completely separate from their personal principles and philosophy.

Yes one can claim this, but it is egocentric hypocricy par excellence.

This is a delusion, because even if they reject al others as religions with dogma, they create their own belief system with their own dogma. The first dogma is all other religions are false because they have pet dogma. proclaiming 'my dogma ate your dogma.'

When I was in Israel I met many Jews that proclaimed what we believe is not religion, and what others believe are religions. JW actually say the same thing, and others have also made such claims. It is redundantly ridiculous using the word religion as a club against others claiming we or I am above religion.

 

[Thief]

This is only self defined use of the word. Religion is not a stone to throw at others who believe differently

You believe in God. Do you believe in Jesus Chris?. Do you believe in the Trinity? Do believe in the Bible?



No, they are not clearly separated to justify one belief over another.

I have one belief
it has no dogma

maybe it would help to realize......I am not yours to define

 

[Quagmire]

According to a fun Jewish story that I'm trying to remember more everytime I'm feeling judgemental:

The Baal Shem Tov taught that the heavenly court has neither the power nor the capacity to judge you for what you have done with the life G‑d gave you upon this earth. So this is what they do:


They show you someone’s life—all the achievements and all the failures, all the right decisions and all the wrongdoings—and then they ask you, “So what should we do with this somebody?”


And you give your verdict. Which they accept.


And then they tell you that this somebody was you. Being now in heaven, you don’t recall a thing.


Of course, those who tend to judge others favorably have a decided advantage.


Better get in the habit now.

Sort if the directors cut of this:

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"

I think both versions are saying that we each set the standard for our own judgement, like we design the scales then we inadvertently use them on ourselves.

 

[Thief]

Sort if the directors cut of this:

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again

yeah.....and in my words...

the weigh scale you have used toward others
shall be taken from your hand
and used toward you

 

[Quagmire]

yeah.....and in my words...

the weigh scale you have used toward others
shall be taken from your hand
and used toward you

My theory is that there's a tiny monkey inside each of our heads with a pair of scales, setting it according to the calibrations we give it when we judge everybody else.

Thing is the monkey doesn't realize that "everybody else" isn't supposed to include us.

 

[Thief]

My theory is that there's a tiny monkey inside each of our heads with a pair of scales, setting it according to the calibrations we give it when we judge everybody else.

Thing is the monkey doesn't realize that "everybody else" isn't supposed to include us.

and your monkey carries a safety pin

what's up with that?

 

[Quagmire]

and your monkey carries a safety pin

what's up with that?

I haven't worked up the nerve to ask him yet.

Edit: But I think it has something to do with my conscience and a 5 letter word that probably wouldn't make it past the language filter.

 

[Thief]

I haven't worked up the nerve to ask him yet.

Edit: But I think it has something to do with my conscience and a 5 letter word that probably wouldn't make it past the language filter.

ah....so you ARE guilty
and the monkey really IS on your back

 

[Quagmire]

ah....so you ARE guilty
and the monkey really IS on your back

I refuse to answer on the grounds that I may incriminate myself ( looks sideways at monkey and pin)

 

[Thief]

Then it would end something like this:

I see I am not the only one considering the conflict
good vs evil

this vid you offer holds one idea I don't lean to
that God can be separated from His power

 

[YoursTrue]

Ok? I didn't mention anything about animals. This doesn't connect to my comment st all.

My point is that humans have the notion of eternal life (thinking about it for much of their thinking lives) within their being, unlike, I believe, animals, who have no big thought about God and what the future holds. I have not spoken to any animals about this, and thank God they have not spoken to me. I love animals, though, for the most part. Except for moths and stink bugs that might fly around me in the house. Although I'm sure there is a good purpose for these critters. But not in my house.

 

[YoursTrue]

In my opinion that is a pure position. I think that forming one's beliefs around a religion is the wrong way to go about things anyway. I think one should find the religion that matches what he already believes. Religion is a descriptor, do not forget.

All of us need structure. Either we like what we hear or we don't like it. Either there is a God who can help us, or there isn't a God that can help us. Understand.

 

[The Hammer]

My point is that humans have the notion of eternal life (thinking about it for much of their thinking lives) within their being, unlike, I believe, animals, who have no big thought about God and what the future holds. I have not spoken to any animals about this, and thank God they have not spoken to me. I love animals, though, for the most part. Except for moths and stink bugs that might fly around me in the house. Although I'm sure there is a good purpose for these critters. But not in my house.

That's fine, but it still has no bearing on the concept of guilt that I described in my post. Why are we talking about animals, and not taking about how people make themselves "feel" guilty of stuff inasmuch as others prescribe guilt on them for things.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's fine, but it still has no bearing on the concept of guilt that I described in my post. Why are we talking about animals, and not taking about how people make themselves "feel" guilty of stuff inasmuch as others prescribe guilt on them for things.

Because -- as I was trying to say -- humans basically bear the brunt of sin and guilt. although animals have suffered as a result of man's mistreatment of them. The Jews were told to have offerings for sin as well as the Day of Atonement, another interesting subject regarding guilt and sin.

 

[The Hammer]

Because -- as I was trying to say -- humans basically bear the brunt of sin and guilt. although animals have suffered as a result of man's mistreatment of them. The Jews were told to have offerings for sin as well as the Day of Atonement, another interesting subject regarding guilt and sin.

Which is a great response and addition to this thread, but not a well thought out response to my point.

I would also argue that animals (some not all) feel guilt as well. Or at least have emotions as complex as ours.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's fine, but it still has no bearing on the concept of guilt that I described in my post. Why are we talking about animals, and not taking about how people make themselves "feel" guilty of stuff inasmuch as others prescribe guilt on them for things.

And...what you're saying is interesting, because some people are said to lay a guilt trip on another. But now that you're mentioning it, it is very hard, in my opinion, for someone who hurt another person's feelings, to own up to it. Therefore, they want to shove it off themselves and put it back to the other person by saying, "You're trying to lay a guilt trip on me, and I won't take it." As if that makes them right. It may not.

 

[halbhh]

I just posted the words in another thread
and immediately the statement went several directions in my thoughts

what am I guilty of?

believing in God....though not having religion

is that a bad thing?

Well, Jesus was killed at that demand of the religious leaders of that day.

There's all sorts of religion that goes in the name of God, but isn't of God.

As the verse goes --

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

(As always before: Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right; seek justice and correct the oppressor. Defend the fatherless and plead the case of the widow.")


That's this kind of religion:
Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

The kind that many of the Pharisees Christ often confronted were not doing.

If you keep Christ's commands, you are following Him. That's the real thing, the 'religion' that God accepts (see for instance John chapter 14 and 15).

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes one can claim this, but it is egocentric hypocricy par excellence.

This is a delusion, because even if they reject al others as religions with dogma, they create their own belief system with their own dogma. The first dogma is all other religions are false because they have pet dogma. proclaiming 'my dogma ate your dogma.'

When I was in Israel I met many Jews that proclaimed what we believe is not religion, and what others believe are religions. JW actually say the same thing, and others have also made such claims. It is redundantly ridiculous using the word religion as a club against others claiming we or I am above religion.

Your examples would indeed be hypocrisy, because they have tenets, dogma, principles, etc. They make assertions about the nature and will of god, presume to represent god, etc.
Merely believing in god in and of itself however can't be a religion without an actual belief system or structure. Calling theism by itself a religion is as silly as calling atheism a religion. There is no practice. And what would that make agnosticism? Simultaneously a religion yet not?