I believe in Creation ...and Evolution

[EnhancedSpirit]

Let me try to explain this. Again. Everything in the universe evolved from the elements we know as the periodic table. Can we agree on this? Can you agree that the elements that make up the body you are in have been around since the beginning of 'creation'? Is it an accident that those molecules have continued to form the material world then seperate and reform into something else. This is what science has proven. This cannot all be an accident. It's too precise in it's design.

Trust me guys, I was an atheist and science taught me otherwise. It is bigger than you can imagine

 

[Tawn]

Evolution started with an idea, blew it up, got rid of the information it was all based on it before, and replaced it with other information to keep it going, and it has kept on going since.

Hardly, the information being collected to date is still based on Darwins initial findings, but has moved into other realms such as fossils records.
What do you mean by 'blew it up?' I suppose you are referring to the rejection of evolution by the scientific community during darwins time? This was because of other reasons which were later shown to be false. Ill go into it if you insist.

 

[Tawn]

Let me try to explain this. Again. Everything in the universe evolved from the elements we know as the periodic table. Can we agree on this? Can you agree that the elements that make up the body you are in have been around since the beginning of 'creation'?

Yes, yes, yes... if indeed there was even a 'creation'.. but thats another story

Is it an accident that those molecules have continued to form the material world then seperate and reform into something else. This is what science has proven. This cannot all be an accident. It's too precise in it's design.

I do not see precision at all in the world around me. Assuming this isnt an accident is a pretty big assumption when we consider the size of the universe and the possibility that the universe could have been in existance forever.

Trust me guys, I was an atheist and science taught me otherwise. It is bigger than you can imagine

Many Atheists once were Christians.. im supposed to trust you because you were once an Atheist? Pah.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Yes, yes, yes... if indeed there was even a 'creation'.. but thats another story

I was speaking of BANG.

I do not see precision at all in the world around me.

How can you not see the precision in nature? And you don't have to trust me, but I haven't given you reason not to.

 

[Yerda]

This is what science has proven. This cannot all be an accident. It's too precise in it's design.

That is a personal opinion.

Trust me guys, I was an atheist and science taught me otherwise. It is bigger than you can imagine

If you've deliberately oversimplified the science you've brought forth in this thread so far to make your point easier to grasp then fair enough. However, your points seem to suggest that you've misunderstood science completely.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I believe in creationism, but I do not believe in a young earth. And just because science can explain why and how a baby is born, does not take away from the miracle of life.

Believe as you will, but the birth of a new being (human, animal, plant, fish, etc.) is hardly miraculous - it occurs at an incredible rate all over this planet. How miraculous is that?

And evolutionists started with the idea, derived from similarities in animals, seen along time ago, that animals all came from each other. They are starting the same way, just from a different point.

Not even close.

Evolution started with an idea, blew it up, got rid of the information it was all based on it before, and replaced it with other information to keep it going, and it has kept on going since.

Your ignorance of the Theory of Evolution, and how it has "evolved" over time, is astonishing. Not surprising, but astonishing.

Cristianity started before scientific data like that was even started to be collected. It has stayed the same over time, and has not been disproven since it's start.

You mean "My version of Christianity". You should not presume to speak for all Christians on any subject - much less when discussing evolution. The majority of Christians embrace evolution - due to their ability to objectively consider the mountains of evidence that support it. Your insistence upon a literal view of the Bible is not universal to all Christians.

I believe it because I trust it, and my faith in it hasn't failed me. The Bible states, faith first. Now I am not the most faithful person in the world, but I am not given any reasons not to believe in God.

Exactly, Passerbye. You believe as you do, based on revealed faith - not scientific evidence that supports some wild concept of how life on earth came to be what is. You can (and should) believe as you wish - I'm only asking that you stop trying to justify your beliefs by intentionally misunderstanding what science teaches us. When that intentional intellectual dishonesty goes unchallenged, it leads to people wanting to teach religion in a science class.

You think, therefore you are.

Cute. Vapid, but cute.

Everything in the universe evolved from the elements we know as the periodic table. Can we agree on this?

No, we can't. We have no way of knowing that the elements that exist on earth represent the entire gamut of what is available throughout the universe. It is entirely possible that other elements exist in solar systems with a double sun, or near a black hole.

Can you agree that the elements that make up the body you are in have been around since the beginning of 'creation'?

I can surmise that this is true, but I have no evidence.

Is it an accident that those molecules have continued to form the material world then seperate and reform into something else. This is what science has proven. This cannot all be an accident. It's too precise in it's design.

Yes, it can be an accident. There are BILLIONS of stars in the universe - with an unimaginable number of planets orbiting them. Over the BILLIONS of years that the universe has existed, it is not only possible that it is an accident, it approaches a certainty - and probably has occurred more than once. If our corner of the universe is "designed", I'd say the designer was having a bad day.

Trust me guys, I was an atheist and science taught me otherwise. It is bigger than you can imagine

Trust me - I'm an agnostic, and science has given me absolutely no reason at all to believe in Paul Bunyan or God.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Do you think we are the only intelligent life in the universe? Because according to evolution, we are the highest on the evolutionary ladder.

 

[Tawn]

I was speaking of BANG.

I remain unconvinced about big bang theory.. not enough evidence yet..

How can you not see the precision in nature? And you don't have to trust me, but I haven't given you reason not to.

Well look at all the imprecision. Us humans are badly designed. We have become bi-pedal, but this has resulted in the birthing channel being somewhat unsatisfactory..

I was discussing this with my girlfriend a while ago (she has a big fear of giving birth).. apparently bears give birth to something the size of a walnut.. easy life!
(I have yet to confirm that)
But also how do you explain why many births result in a ceasarian section? ...and that many other births would be equally difficult without modern maternity facilities.
Designed? Not a chance.

 

[Tawn]

Do you think we are the only intelligent life in the universe?

I can only discuss liklihoods.. it is within the realm of possibility.. I would expect so somewhere..

Because according to evolution, we are the highest on the evolutionary ladder.

Evolution definitely does not state that.. and shouldnt if anyone tells you it does. Evolution makes no claims as to what is considered a 'high' life form and what is a 'low' life form. Humans may be the most concious and intelligent of the species.. we we are inferior to other animals in a variety of different ways.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Do you think we are the only intelligent life in the universe? Because according to evolution, we are the highest on the evolutionary ladder.

A fine question, but one with no evidence to support a conclusion. At this point in time, the evidence that we have been able to collect would lead one to the conclusion that we are the only intelligent life in the Universe. The truth is that we are so new to the game of even looking for intelligent life other than our own, that we would be jumping to a conclusion.

I must confess that I am confused as to how you are connecting this question to evolution.

TVOR

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Designed? Not a chance.

The fact that Humans are not designed to survive in nature as the other animals is kind of on the side of creationism. And if there was no design, there would not be a pattern, and without patterns in nature, science would not be able to prove anything.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

A fine question, but one with no evidence to support a conclusion. At this point in time, the evidence that we have been able to collect would lead one to the conclusion that we are the only intelligent life in the Universe. The truth is that we are so new to the game of even looking for intelligent life other than our own, that we would be jumping to a conclusion.

I must confess that I am confused as to how you are connecting this question to evolution.

TVOR

Either we are on top of the evolutionary chart, or there is possibly something else other than us.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Believe as you will, but the birth of a new being (human, animal, plant, fish, etc.) is hardly miraculous - it occurs at an incredible rate all over this planet. How miraculous is that?

Have you every witnessed a birth? It is nothing short of miraculous. That thing started out as a sperm and an egg. And then a miraculous little group of cells that start out identical to each other, for some reason change and some become hearts cells, some skin cells, some become hair and some become teeth. If you can't see the miracle in that. Well, you just need to take a long close look, and ask yourself 'why'?

 

[Tawn]

The fact that Humans are not designed to survive in nature as the other animals is kind of on the side of creationism.

Ceasarian sections and modern maternity facilities are relatively recent in human history. 2000 years ago we were subject to the wildness of nature just as much as the animals...

And if there was no design, there would not be a pattern.

Not true. Snowflakes form beautiful interesting patterns. Each one completely unique. From total chaos.

(Unless of course you are seriously saying that God designs each and every snowflake only for it to fall to the floor a minute later.. splat. What, is God bored or something? )

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Have you every witnessed a birth? It is nothing short of miraculous. That thing started out as a sperm and an egg. And then a miraculous little group of cells that start out identical to each other, for some reason change and some become hearts cells, some skin cells, some become hair and some become teeth. If you can't see the miracle in that. Well, you just need to take a long close look, and ask yourself 'why'?

Yes - I watched both of my children being born. I understand how zygotes become embryos, then fetuses, then babies. I do not consider that to be a miracle. I have asked "why". Understanding the science behind reproduction allows me to view it as a natural process simply running it's course - nothing more.
I mean absolutely no disrespect, ES, but to me, if you could show me a person that has been declared clinically dead, and a week later, they arise from the ground - now THAT would be a miracle.

TVOR

 

[Tawn]

Have you every witnessed a birth? It is nothing short of miraculous. That thing started out as a sperm and an egg. And then a miraculous little group of cells that start out identical to each other, for some reason change and some become hearts cells, some skin cells, some become hair and some become teeth. If you can't see the miracle in that. Well, you just need to take a long close look, and ask yourself 'why'?

Perhaps 'wonderous' is a better term... miracle does have a certain sense of 'uniqueness' about it.. and a birth is hardly unique.

 

[Tawn]

Either we are on top of the evolutionary chart, or there is possibly something else other than us.

You are making the mistake of human vanity that has so often plagued mankind.
We always consider our racial heritage to be superior to all others.. why we have things like genocide..

Look, humans are no better than the animals around them. We have limited eyesight, and we see in less colours than some animals.. though more than most.. we have poor hearing and smell. We are not able to lift many times our own weight as some animals are able to.. we cannot change the colour of our skin. We cannot fly. We cannot breath underwater. We cannot spin webs and walk across ceilings, our speed to size ratio is rather poor conpared with some animals... etc... etc...
In fact our only saving grace is our superior ability to wield tools and it would appear we have the greatest concious thought - although animals like african grey parrots and dolphins arent far off..

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Perhaps 'wonderous' is a better term... miracle does have a certain sense of 'uniqueness' about it.. and a birth is hardly unique.

Assuming a miracle is unique is blinding you.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

All I have to say is this…”Bird Eating Tarantulas”. The discovery channel showed this Tarantula climbing up the side of a tree and hiding behind some leaves so it could eat unsuspecting birds.

What more do you need? That is proof of creationism.
How the can you tell me that a tarantula evolved so that birds would be it’s preferred diet?
With all the stuff on the ground that it could eat relatively easily it found through a process of elimination that it would be better off eating birds?
That had to be created.
That is crazy to me.
This is just as crazy as having a “[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]whale eating desert snake”, or an “[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Elephant eating mouse[/font]”.
That just doesn’t fit.
[/font]

 

[Tawn]

Bah.. the term 'miracle' is a word with a socially formed meaning attatched to it. I can assume what I like about it. It has no absolutely true meaning.
Perhaps you should better define what you mean by the term 'miracle'.