I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[Trailblazer]

Isaiah 45:5-7
New International Version

5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

I believe that Isaiah 45:7 refers to fate and predestination and that prosperity and disaster are things that happen to us that are beyond our control.

In short, God is responsible for both the Good and the Bad things that happen to us, those things that are not subject to free will and thus are beyond our control.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.” Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure them because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the bad things happen are beyond our control. That is our destiny, our fate, for which God is responsible.

If you are one of the people who had a fairly easy life, a happy life, a person to whom mostly good things happen, maybe you do not think much about fate and predestination, but I think about it a lot because I was not one of those people. In fact, I cannot even imagine what it would be like to be one of them. It is as if they are living in another universe.

If God is fair and just, and God loves everyone, why do some people have it so easy whereas other people have such difficult lives? I know the religious apologists have answers but I do not accept those answers. I want to know why even though I know I will never know why.

Thanks, Trailblazer.

 

[John53]

It is beyond my understanding why anyone would believe such a being exists.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is beyond my understanding why anyone would believe such a being exists.

I've had it so easy that I must be one of the chosen people.

 

[John53]

I've had it so easy that I must be one of the chosen people.

Me too I guess, he's even saved me from non-Hodgkins lymphoma twice. My life is pretty easy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Me too I guess, he's even saved me from non-Hodgkins lymphoma twice. My life is pretty easy.

Yipes!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I've had it so easy that I must be one of the chosen people.

Me too I guess, he's even saved me from non-Hodgkins lymphoma twice. My life is pretty easy.

There is a prayer from the Bab that finishes with the required meditation on this topic,

".............Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance....."
—The Báb

Our choices are our path. In the first path every mention of God is inclusive of embracing all we face.

The later tests are what we all face with free will choices.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Me too I guess, he's even saved me from non-Hodgkins lymphoma twice. My life is pretty easy.

I think God likes atheists better than believers but it is too late for me to join up because the damage has already been done... I am in for the long haul now.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is beyond my understanding why anyone would believe such a being exists.

I believe it exists but I do not always like that it exists. Catch my drift?

 

[John53]

I believe it exists but I do not always like that it exists. Catch my drift?

I know the feeling well, I was stuck in a similar rut until my mid 20's except mine was a didn't believe but pretended I did.

 

[John53]

There is a prayer from the Bab that finishes with the required meditation on this topic,

".............Indeed shouldst Thou desire to confer blessing upon a servant Thou wouldst blot out from the realm of his heart every mention or disposition except Thine Own mention; and shouldst Thou ordain evil for a servant by reason of that which his hands have unjustly wrought before Thy face, Thou wouldst test him with the benefits of this world and of the next that he might become preoccupied therewith and forget Thy remembrance....."
—The Báb

Our choices are our path. In the first path every mention of God is inclusive of embracing all we face.

The later tests are what we all face with free will choices.

Regards Tony

Sorry Tony but I don't understand a word of that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry Tony but I don't understand a word of that.

All the best John, Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

Sorry Tony but I don't understand a word of that.

Its probably just as well, the way I understood it was you were being accused of having atheism for the allegedly poor motive of loving the world.

Seemed like a dig at your morality to me.

In my opinion.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It is beyond my understanding why anyone would believe such a being exists.

I'm sorry to say that I genuinely believed in the Christian God, and I was a very devout Christian for many years. I was hoodwinked by Christianity for 30 years before I was finally able to free myself from its shackles. I won't go into further details because I don't want to derail the thread, but I've talked about my personal exodus from Christianity in other posts. TBH, forsaking my faith was the best decision I've ever made for myself, and I don't regret it. It was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health.

 

[Truthseeker]

I'm sorry to say that I genuinely believed in the Christian God, and I was a very devout Christian for many years. I was hoodwinked by Christianity for 30 years before I was finally able to free myself from its shackles. I won't go into further details because I don't want to derail the thread, but I've talked about my personal exodus from Christianity in other posts. TBH, forsaking my faith was the best decision I've ever made for myself, and I don't regret it. It was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health.

Partly it being a torture depends on what denomination or religion you are in, and also the people in that religion who are around you. I haven't read enough of what you said and don't have a good enough memory of what I've heard you say to know what circumstances led you to this. But you don't have to derail the thread, I can sympathize whatever it is.

 

[Truthseeker]

Its probably just as well, the way I understood it was you were being accused of having atheism for the allegedly poor motive of loving the world.

Seemed like a dig at your morality to me.

In my opinion.

That was not it at all, but it was ill advised for him to say that. It is saying if you do bad things, and God wants to punish you for it, this material world will be favorable to you. The rationale behind that is that when things are pleasant in the material world, you think you don't need spiritual happiness, and thus you miss out probably because you won't be searching spiritual sustenance.

However, God can also be merciful to people who do bad things if He wishes and have bad consequences for what they have done.

It is too involved in a spiritual system of thought for people like him to appreciate it, or for you, either.

 

[John53]

Its probably just as well, the way I understood it was you were being accused of having atheism for the allegedly poor motive of loving the world.

Seemed like a dig at your morality to me.

In my opinion.

Thanks Daniel. Oh well, it went way over my head so no damage done.

 

[danieldemol]

It is saying if you do bad things, and God wants to punish you for it, this material world will be favorable to you.

What was the relevance to @John53 if he hasn't done "bad things" worthy of a "punish"?

Again it seems pretty clear Tony was taking a dig at the morality of John for being an atheist.

In my opinion.

 

[Truthseeker]

What was the relevance to @John53 if he hasn't done "bad things" worthy of a "punish"?

Again it seems pretty clear Tony was taking a dig at the morality of John for being an atheist.

In my opinion.

He wasn't saying that, in my opinion. It was ill-advised. It could give that impression. It gave you that impression. Sorry if it was offensive to you. The quote from the Bab was ill-suited in the context of the conversation. If @John53 hasn't done very many evil things, it doesn't apply to him. Being atheist is not doing evil things.

 

[stvdv]

If God is fair and just, and God loves everyone, why do some people have it so easy whereas other people have such difficult lives? I know the religious apologists have answers but I do not accept those answers. I want to know why even though I know I will never know why.

Thanks, Trailblazer.

I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

I love this quote

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Isaiah 45:5-7
New International Version

5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

I believe that Isaiah 45:7 refers to fate and predestination and that prosperity and disaster are things that happen to us that are beyond our control.

In short, God is responsible for both the Good and the Bad things that happen to us, those things that are not subject to free will and thus are beyond our control.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.” Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure them because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the bad things happen are beyond our control. That is our destiny, our fate, for which God is responsible.

If you are one of the people who had a fairly easy life, a happy life, a person to whom mostly good things happen, maybe you do not think much about fate and predestination, but I think about it a lot because I was not one of those people. In fact, I cannot even imagine what it would be like to be one of them. It is as if they are living in another universe.

If God is fair and just, and God loves everyone, why do some people have it so easy whereas other people have such difficult lives? I know the religious apologists have answers but I do not accept those answers. I want to know why even though I know I will never know why.

Thanks, Trailblazer.

So if the one and only Lord who creates the good and bad is Who created our bodies and gave of Himself our soul, then we are an expression of the source of the duality of good and bad. So long as we self identify with our body with its dualistic perception of good and bad, we are in serious error and suffer endless trials. But if we know and understand that our body is merely the temple of the one God, and self identify with our soul, we may transcend the duality of good and bad and be one with our soul's source, ie., God. The kingdom of God is within, God is not external to us, God is not separate from us, God is the source of our being, we are an expression of the one God. If we know this and love the inner God with all out heart, mind, and soul, then at the appointed time, the divine wedding metaphor of union takes place, one becomes an eternal integral aspect of the one God.

We must cease eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and bad, and be one with God, the creator of the good and bad.