I challenge the world , bring it on!

[Subduction Zone]

If it were so easy to understand then you would be able to explain it to us in a way we would all agree you are right.

Simple. All it takes is the right mixture of peyote and psilocybin.

 

[FearGod]

The area is 25m^2. No issue there. And yes, it contains an infinite number of points.

As applied to the whole universe, the distances between points gets larger over time. The extent is still infinite at both times, but the distances are increasing.

And it means that the universe is expanding continuously in which Sustainer refutes it by the
idea that nothingness doesn't expand.

 

[Polymath257]

And it means that the universe is expanding continuously in which Sustainer refutes it by the
idea that nothingness doesn't expand.

It can if the distances between points can change.

Now, in the presence of matter and energy, we can look at local coordinates where matter is at rest and use those to define expansion. This is how it is actually done in general relativity, where the basic assumption is that galaxies follow the universal expansion, at least approximately (which is supported by the observable evidence, including the background radiation)

 

[james blunt]

Even with no light the glass block looks the same to you but you can only perceive it is dark because that i

It can if the distances between points can change.

I don't think he understands that space-time and expanding points are an overlay of space and coordinate system we use. I think he is thinking space itself is stretching, expanding rather than coordinate points.

 

[Polymath257]

Even with no light the glass block looks the same to you but you can only perceive it is dark because that i


I don't think he understands that space-time and expanding points are an overlay of space and coordinate system we use. I think he is thinking space itself is stretching, expanding rather than coordinate points.

Yes, space itself is expanding. That is described via the coordinates.

 

[FearGod]

Even with no light the glass block looks the same to you but you can only perceive it is dark because that i


I don't think he understands that space-time and expanding points are an overlay of space and coordinate system we use. I think he is thinking space itself is stretching, expanding rather than coordinate points.

I understand that the spacetime is expanding in all directions.

 

[james blunt]

Yes, space itself is expanding. That is described via the coordinates.

Oh jeepers, no , space is not expanding, observable points are expanding, space is expanding is a terrible description , it suggests space itself is expanding, that is not true .

 

[james blunt]

I understand that the spacetime is expanding in all directions.

The universal observation is expanding, not the universe that goes beyond the last observed matter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh jeepers, no , space is not expanding, observable points are expanding, space is expanding is a terrible description , it suggests space itself is expanding, that is not true .

Such an erudite refutation!

 

[Subduction Zone]

The universal observation is expanding, not the universe that goes beyond the last observed matter.

Do you have anything besides word salad to support this claim?

 

[james blunt]

Do you have anything besides word salad to support this claim?

I have lots of things. let us pray together, please put your hands together.

Dear lord , the wise one,
please bless this child with wisdom
let this child expand his hands
let this child realise that there is space outside of his expanded hands
let him realise there is space between his hands
let him realise that his hands expanded into the space and not the space expanded.
Bless him mighty lord of all
amen or whatever anyone may end with.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have lots of things. let us pray together, please put your hands together.

Dear lord , the wise one,
please bless this child with wisdom
let this child expand his hands
let this child realise that there is space outside of his expanded hands
let him realise there is space between his hands
let him realise that his hands expanded into the space and not the space expanded.
Bless him mighty lord of all
amen or whatever anyone may end with.

I don't think your prayer will help you at all. But at least you can see that you are a child.

 

[james blunt]

I don't think your prayer will help you at all. But at least you can see that you are a child.

We are all gods children.

If you don't understand that its time for you to give it up, serious that is so easy to do and see as an experiment.

Take two dots

.<>.

expand those dots

. <<>>.

Notice the space of the background behind the letters as not changed any?

 

[Polymath257]

Oh jeepers, no , space is not expanding, observable points are expanding, space is expanding is a terrible description , it suggests space itself is expanding, that is not true .

Yes, space itself is expanding. Both theory and evidence support this statement.

 

[Polymath257]

We are all gods children.

If you don't understand that its time for you to give it up, serious that is so easy to do and see as an experiment.

Take two dots

.<>.

expand those dots

. <<>>.

Notice the space of the background behind the letters as not changed any?

And yet the distance between them has increased.

 

[dfnj]

Um, that is an incorrect interpretation of what the physicists are saying.

For a universe of infinite spatial existent, the expansion simply means that points are moving away from each other over time. There is no 'expanding into' or 'matter and energy reaching' anything.

In fact, part of the basic model is that every point looks the same as every other point: every place has matter and energy and it looks the 'same' in all directions (on a large scale). There is no boundary of the expansion: points on such a boundary would not look the same as elsewhere.

Now, it is possible to have a spatially finite universe, but in that case, it is *still* the case that every point looks the same as every other. It's just that space itself is curved in such a way as to give a finite volume (sort of like the earth looks flat locally, but is in fact curved and has a finite surface area)

This is the interpretation I was taught in school: "Returning to the image of the expanding universe as a balloon inflating, if tiny dots are painted on the ballon to represent galaxies, then as the balloon expands so the distance between the dots increases, and the further apart the dots the faster they move apart."

Do you think this is no longer the accepted interpretation? What did you learn (please provide a link) ?

 

[dfnj]

Oh jeepers, no , space is not expanding, observable points are expanding, space is expanding is a terrible description , it suggests space itself is expanding, that is not true .

This video matches what I have learned:

Are you saying in your Universe it is not homogeneous and isotropic? All the measurements support this:

Look, this video occurs in your nothingness.

 

[Polymath257]

This is the interpretation I was taught in school: "Returning to the image of the expanding universe as a balloon inflating, if tiny dots are painted on the ballon to represent galaxies, then as the balloon expands so the distance between the dots increases, and the further apart the dots the faster they move apart."

Do you think this is no longer the accepted interpretation? What did you learn (please provide a link) ?

In this analogy, space is the surface of the balloon and time is the *radius* of the balloon.

So, in the analogy, there is a two-dimensional 'space' that is curved (in fact, spherical). Later times are represented by larger radii.

One nice aspect of this analogy: it shows that the most reasonable answer to the question 'what is the universe expanding into?' is very simple: 'it expands into the future'.

This is quite literally true in the typical formulation.

 

[atanu]

Yes, space itself is expanding. That is described via the coordinates.

What is the reference for the coordinates?

 

[Polymath257]

What is the reference for the coordinates?

Spatial slices of spacetime are determined by being locally at rest. We assume space is isotropic and homogeneous. That is sufficient to anchor the coordinates to the extent required.