I choose to be an antichrist out of compassion

[Shadow Wolf]

I can respect the sacrifice.

Remember when I mentioned a post of yours being "very telling?" This is one of those examples that reflect that "very telling." There is no respecting that. If a parent did that today, we would press charges against them, rule them unfit for being parents, and strip them of custody. There is absolutely nothing respectable about offering your own children, or anyone, up for such violence.

the mob refused the offer and the angels inflicted them all with blindness, shortly before God nuked the hell out of them.

Such awesomeness. Instead of acting acting like intelligent beings with higher thought processes, they act on basic violent impulses. Have they no self control? And why "nuke the hell" out of them? Do god and the angels have such thin skin that he can't bear to be insulted without retaliating?

It should be noted that his daughters got him drunk

So? It's still not righteous behavior, it's irresponsible behavior.

they wanted to have children and felt they would never meet another man.

So? Their stupidity is supposed to pardon such behavior?

I certainly would turn to the bible- among other holy books- to acquire deep insights about individual human Nature and collective human Nature, in all its aspects, not just those one might find pleasing.

If there is anything of our nature to be found in such religious texts, it is how easy it is to control people through fear.

 

[Aštra’el]

Remember when I mentioned a post of yours being "very telling?" This is one of those examples that reflect that "very telling." There is no respecting that. There is absolutely nothing respectable about offering your own children, or anyone, up for such violence.

There is. If Lot's loyalty to God outweighed his love for his family, that is something I can certainly respect.

Its called "sacrifice" for a reason, because you are giving up something precious for a higher purpose. Yes, I can respect that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is. If Lot's loyalty to God outweighed his love for his family, that is something I can certainly respect.

Such a loyalty to something with no evidence, no proof of existence, no more real than the gods of the Babylonians or Assyrians or Mesopotamians, that is something that should not be respected. What makes it more disgusting is how in some places, such as America (especially the Mid Western and Southern states, a.k.a., the "Bible Belt), it is touted that someone of good moral character will have this same blind faith in this same easily offended god who'd rather just kill people than fix the problems he created. If a software engineer makes a program that fails, we don't blame the software we don't hold the software responsible and we don't expect the software to fix itself. But unlike the programmers who do work on the software to fix problems and issue updates, for whatever reason god only merely "sent a bandaid" instead of addressing the issue at its core. It seems either he doesn't care enough to actually do this, which pretty much blows the whole idea of "god loves us" out of the water because he's letting us needlessly suffer instead of taking responsibility for his own failed creation, or suggests he is not truly omnipotent, having lost control of his creation so early and so easily and it being so obviously beyond his control, so like an angry tantrum throwing child he sends the plagues and floods and earthquakes to "sweep the problem under the rug" because he is powerless to actually fix it.

 

[Aštra’el]

Such a loyalty to something with no evidence, no proof of existence, no more real than the gods of the Babylonians or Assyrians or Mesopotamians, that is something that should not be respected.

Except in this particular myth (and many of the surrounding myths), God is manifesting in ways that God's followers do not require faith in the existence of God. The characters in the OT have plenty of "evidence", when God personally goes around consuming people in fire, sending powerful angels on missions to earth, nuking entire cities into glass, smiting people with the elements, empowering certain people with superhuman abilities, etc. The "evidence" is abundantly clear to the main characters in the OT.

I say "characters" because I do not interpret the OT as a collection of completely literal historical accounts devoid of allegory, metaphor, and esoteric symbolism. Nevertheless, I can respect the sacrifices made by various characters within the context of their particular myths.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The characters in the OT have plenty of "evidence", when God personally goes around consuming people in fire, sending powerful angels on missions to earth, nuking entire cities into glass, smiting people with the elements, empowering certain people with superhuman abilities, etc.

In the story Fight Club, the unnamed narrator thinks he has plenty of evidence for the existence of Tyler Durden as someone separate from himself, but that just wasn't the case. Of course characters contained in their own stories have proof and evidence, but that's no reason why we shouldn't question their motives and challenge and oppose their actions. I read Job, I don't use a magnifying glass to examine the suffering man who had a great and unbreakable faith and instead look at the God who allowed it, encouraged it, egged it on, and did it all over a bet. Morally, it's really not much different than dog fighters taking bets and being the source of such cruelty and suffering.

I say "characters" because I do not interpret the OT as a collection of completely literal historical accounts devoid of allegory, metaphor, and esoteric symbolism.

For the most of its existence, the Bible has not been interpreted as such. Your personal interpretations are not the interpretations driving social policy. And we don't need myths and fables and fantasies. We have outgrown the need for god and religion like an infant outgrows the need of their mother's breast.

Nevertheless, I can respect the sacrifices made by certain characters within the described setting of their particular myths.

Only a god of extreme cruelty and hostility would ever find the things done by and asked of parents in the Bible as suitable and appropriate. Seriously, what sort of sadistic maniac demands a parent sacrifice their child? That is not honorable loyalty, it's blind stupidity, and a demand of obedience and control,to do exactly as you're told. Just do absolutely everything he says, because you don't want to upset him. There is nothing there to respect.

 

[Fool]

I'm not claiming to be the beast of the apocalypse, but the Bible says there are many antichrists (and I am one of them,) but it is out of compassion. I'm an antichrist because I'm oppossed to God and the Bible even to the point of hating them both.

Some say the Antichrist will be a false prophet who introduces the world a Religion which unites all Religions. I think that is absolutely beautiful for so many religions and philosophies contain truth and beauty. So much division and confusion in the religious world drives me nuts!

I also think it is thoroughly disgusting how many people claim that people outside of their Religion (or polytheists like Ghandi) are burning in hell for all eternity.

God never once leaves a clear message for so many and the consequence of not believing in him or having the right Dogma is an eternity of torture (is what many monotheists are preaching). I'm completely oppossed to such a God, and to give someone that consequence for rejecting what they didn't know to be true is the epitome of injustice according to what my conscience tells me justice is.

I think people should follow their conscience. There are a lot of Scripture verses that lead people to believe that people like Ghandi or other polytheists, buddhists, Pagans, or agnostics who follow their conscience and do what they believe to be right will be tortured for ever and ever and ever in agony because they didn't accept Jesus as their Lord and savior. This is their consequence even if they didn't know they were rejecting the truth.

How can anyone who believes that not be horrified that their friends, coworkers, and so many people they come into contact with will have such a fate forever? How is that good news? How is the God who permits that and hides himself from everyone worthy of all our love, worship, and praise? I'm absolutely going to oppose and fight such a God. Perhaps by opposing him I can get him to change his mind. Anyone who knows the Scriptures knows that people have argued with God and got him to change his mind (The name Israel means contender with God).

Fighting with God can be the best thing for our world. Moses explained to God that his idea of leading the Israelites into the wilderness to destroy them was asinine "14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Exodus 32:14-20

God has come a long way. He used to be the Jerk in the Old Testament that had people stoned to death for crimes as stupid as working on the wrong day of the week. We can get him to change his ways and not be such a tyrant. After seeing how poorly God treats us, I see nothing more noble than to contend with him.

An Antichrist is completely capable of being a good intentioned, compassionate person who sees injustice and will fight injustice even if it means fighting God!

the beast is the human aspect and its lower nature. the human form is a shadow of sorts.

Ecclesiastes 3:18
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

this type of person would live only for the senses at the expense of the Spiritual. The difference between lower animals and man is that man has a choice to live a sensual life, or a spiritual life. Lower animals cannot readily grasp higher ideas, or think in terms of abstract things, theories, or actual vs potential..

so the creative force goes from being a blind force and reactive, to an enlightened one and creative.

 

[Aštra’el]

Of course characters contained in their own stories have proof and evidence, but that's no reason why we shouldn't question their motives and challenge and oppose their actions.

The bible illustrates the complexity of human Nature in all its aspects, even those aspects we may not find pleasing.

I read Job, I don't use a magnifying glass to examine the suffering man who had a great and unbreakable faith and instead look at the God who allowed it, encouraged it, egged it on, and did it all over a bet. Morally, it's really not much different than dog fighters taking bets and being the source of such cruelty and suffering.

Another thing I love about the Bible is our individual and collective ability to interpret the myths in so many ways. What I saw in the story of Job was God enlightening Satan to some of the redeeming qualities of Man; another might look at the myth as a story of one man's unwavering devotion to his God; another might hate this story and find it to be a brutal and ugly depiction of some primitive cultures' tyrannical supreme God and that God's indifference to human suffering.

For the most of its existence, the Bible has not been interpreted as such. Your personal interpretations are not the interpretations driving social policy.

Nor should they be. My spiritual-religious system reflects my own Weltanschauung and its primary purpose is to help me achieve my own goals and ambitions.

And we don't need myths and fables and fantasies. We have outgrown the need for god and religion like an infant outgrows the need of their mother's breast.

There are many things one does not "need" to survive and thrive, but are incredibly useful and beautiful to experience in one's life journey nonetheless.

If someone hates the bible and refuses to embrace its potential, it is my hopes that they can instead embrace some other sources of strength, power, wisdom, and beauty, to enhance their experience of life and aid them in the attainment of their goals and ambitions.

Only a god of extreme cruelty and hostility would ever find the things done by and asked of parents in the Bible as suitable and appropriate.

Seriously, what sort of sadistic maniac demands a parent sacrifice their child? That is not honorable loyalty, it's blind stupidity, and a demand of obedience and control,to do exactly as you're told. Just do absolutely everything he says, because you don't want to upset him. There is nothing there to respect.

Just because you have not discovered any reasons to respect something or someone, doesn't mean others haven't. You obviously have various issues with certain forms of sacrifice, as well as the Bible and its God; I happen to look at these things a little bit differently. Neither of us is "right" or "wrong" in this.

 

[Spiderman]

the beast is the human aspect and its lower nature.

Ecclesiastes 3:18
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

this type of person would live only for the senses at the expense of the Spiritual. The difference between lower animals and man is that man has a choice to live a sensual life, or a spiritual life. Lower animals cannot readily grasp higher ideas, or think in terms of abstract things, theories, or actual vs potential..

so the creative force goes from being a blind force and reactive, to an enlightened one and creative.

Im very spiritual. I'm not Saying I'm the beast or the Antichrist , but one of them according to the standards of many Christians.

I reject much of what Christians are promoting and I despize much of what is in the Bible. In that sense I'm an antichrist.

Also a lot of Christians believe the Antichrist will unite all religions. I'm all for that.

 

[Fool]

Im very spiritual. I'm not Saying I'm the beast or the Antichrist , but one of them according to the standards of many Christians.

I reject much of what Christians are promoting and I despize much of what is in the Bible. In that sense I'm an antichrist.

Also a lot of Christians believe the Antichrist will unite all religions. I'm all for that.

i am a beast, an animal. most christians are anti-christs. they have done like the israelites did with moses.

Exodus 20
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.


all religions were influenced by ONE Spirit. everyone has to stand before the judgment seat. it is not what they wore that will be judged but what they did.


Revelation 10:11
And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

James
Prejudice and the Law of Love
2 My brothers and sisters, do not show prejudice if you possess faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ. 2 For if someone comes into your assembly wearing a gold ring and fine clothing, and a poor person enters in filthy clothes, 3 do you pay attention to the one who is finely dressed and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and to the poor person, “You stand over there,” or “Sit on the floor”? 4 If so, have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil motives? 5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters! Did not God choose the poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor! Are not the rich oppressing you and dragging you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme the good name of the one you belong to? 8 But if you fulfill the royal law as expressed in this scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show prejudice, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as violators. 10 For the one who obeys the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If someone hates the bible and refuses to embrace its potential, it is my hopes that they can instead embrace some other source of strength, power, wisdom, and beauty, to enhance their experience of life and aid them in the attainment of their goals and ambitions.

Overall, it's possible to find what little good there is in the Bible in other sources that do not have such heavy and negative baggage.

Just because have not discovered any reasons to respect something or someone, doesn't mean others haven't. You obviously have various issues with certain forms of sacrifice, as well as the Bible and its God; I happen to look at these things a little bit differently. Neither of us is "right" or "wrong" in this.

Though there is no cosmic force saying so, it is wrong to kill a child, and wrong, evil, and horribly cruel to tell a parent to kill their own child. There is no debating that. It is wrong, it is evil.

 

[Aštra’el]

Overall, it's possible to find what little good there is in the Bible in other sources that do not have such heavy and negative baggage.

I am not in it for "the good". I am in it for whatever strength, power, wisdom, and beauty can be found and absorbed and experienced. I am in it for the motivation and the inspiration. I am in it for its ability to help me attain my goals and aspirations.

But yes, the Bible is but one of many sources of such power. It is not for everybody; nor should it be. I happen to appreciate the diversity of religion, mythology, literature, and art, and other culture we have here on earth. There is so much to learn and experience, yet we have only so much time to live.

Though there is no cosmic force saying so, it is wrong to kill a child, and wrong, evil, and horribly cruel to tell a parent to kill their own child. There is no debating that. It is wrong, it is evil.

This is of course your own individual subjective opinion, and the collective subjective opinion of the many people who would agree. I personally prefer not to not use such reductive terms like "good" and "evil".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But yes, the Bible is but one of many sources of such power. It is not for everybody; nor should it be. I happen to appreciate the diversity of religion, mythology, literature, and art, and other culture we have here on earth. There is so much to learn and experience, yet we have only so much time to live.

With its readily available and abundant support for repression, misogyny, slavery, death and genocide, we are better off without. These appeals of these "positive motivations" are really no different than someone sucking on a vaporizer believing its entirely harmless - it's still addictive, and still an expensive vice, and only an imitation of the "real thing."

 

[Aštra’el]

With its readily available and abundant support for repression, misogyny, slavery, death and genocide, we are better off without.

Speak for yourself.

My spiritual-religious system is not about the collective, it is about the individual. It is about my goals and ambitions, my life, my Weltanschauung, my Will. My thoughts and passions and experiences, my greatest dreams and deepest desires.