"I don't consent to your prayers."

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I said I can understand the Christian POV, not that I agree with it.

Great. If you understand it, what is it?

So the Christian doesn't see it as useless. How does this affect you again? I get why Christians would want to pray for me and so on. Don't you? Is it honestly that hard to understand?

Yes, frankly.

 

[ChristineM]

Knothead on TikTok

Found a video on tiktok where someone, in a comment, responded to some evangelical Christians that they don't consent to their prayers. The evangelical Christians then made a video specifically praying for that individual despite their wishes. The video linked above is another Christian minister condemning that action as selfish, displaying false piety and even taking the Lord's name in vain.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race, I don't care if people pray for me and view it at best as functionally equivalent of well wishing, at worse as harmful as praying to Bruce Almighty.

But what do you think? Would you as a non-christian ask Christians to not pray for you, especially the passive aggressive 'I'll pray you change your mind?' As Christians would you respect the wishes of someone who asked you to not pray for them? Also, if you have another theistic belief, do you pray for people?

I would say don't pray, much better if you actually did something to help

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Knothead on TikTok

Found a video on tiktok where someone, in a comment, responded to some evangelical Christians that they don't consent to their prayers. The evangelical Christians then made a video specifically praying for that individual despite their wishes. The video linked above is another Christian minister condemning that action as selfish, displaying false piety and even taking the Lord's name in vain.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race, I don't care if people pray for me and view it at best as functionally equivalent of well wishing, at worse as harmful as praying to Bruce Almighty.

But what do you think? Would you as a non-christian ask Christians to not pray for you, especially the passive aggressive 'I'll pray you change your mind?' As Christians would you respect the wishes of someone who asked you to not pray for them? Also, if you have another theistic belief, do you pray for people?

I don't mind them praying. Hopefully, they won't mind my return prayer: "Let me reciprocate and telepathically petition to Raël to focus the yin and yan of his inner eye on your chakra and astrally project your aura to the ninth cloud of Kolob."

 

[Debater Slayer]

I said I can understand the Christian POV, not that I agree with it. So the Christian doesn't see it as useless. How does this affect you again? I get why Christians would want to pray for me and so on. Don't you? Is it honestly that hard to understand?

To be fair, I have found that yes, the perspective from which one feels they should pray for others can be difficult to understand or relate to for someone who has never followed or grown up in a religion of that nature.

I can understand it and even appreciate it more often than not; after all, if someone believes I'm going to suffer for eternity if I don't convert, praying for me to convert becomes a logical expression of deep concern.

But I also realize that the ideas of eternal torture and salvation are markedly foreign to many cultures and communities, so it make sense to me that many may not relate to them.

 

[Rival]

To be fair, iI have found that yes, the perspective from which one feels they should pray for others can be difficult to understand or relate to for someone who has never followed or grown up in a religion of that nature.

I can understand it and even appreciate it more often than not; after all, if someone believes I'm going to suffer for eternity if I don't convert, praying for me to convert becomes a logical expression of deep concern.

But I also realize that the ideas of eternal torture and salvation are markedly foreign to many cultures and communities, so it make sense to me that many may not relate to them.

But at base, the concept of prayer itself should at least be understandable. I am confounded by people getting into minutiae over a simple act that another person considers favourable.

 

[The Hammer]

If you offered to cast a spell for me, I'd be honored. Spell work takes a lot of effort, and I'd find it more meaningful than prayer alone(with a few exceptions; I've seen a few really involved prayers).

If you offered to cast a spell on me... well, how I felt about it might vary on what it is you're casting on me.

I guess I never thought about the distinction of "on vs for" before.

Given me something to chew on.

 

[The Hammer]

But at base, the concept of prayer itself should at least be understandable. I am confounded by people getting into minutiae over a simple act that another person considers favourable.

The problem is that it is often done as a condescending method of saying, "I disagree with you, and hope you change".

It's pedantic.

 

[Rival]

The problem is that it is often done as a condescending method of saying, "I disagree with you, and hope you change".

It's pedantic.

Just take the higher road and politely accept it, imo.

 

[The Hammer]

Just take the higher road and politely accept it, imo.

Meh

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But at base, the concept of prayer itself should at least be understandable. I am confounded by people getting into minutiae over a simple act that another person considers favourable.

It's not "getting into the minutia" to ask what the believer thinks their prayer will accomplish or how it can be reconciled with the rest of their belief system.

I've never once heard any sort of monotheist give a coherent explanation of what praying for God to intercede is supposed to accomplish. The only responses to the question that I get that are even internally consistent are along the lines of "*I* never make that type of prayer."

 

[Erebus]

I think having somebody praying for me falls into one of two categories:

1. They want something good to happen to me such as recovery from an illness.
2. They disapprove of something about me and they want me to change it.

I'm perfectly happy for people in category 1 to pray for me and I appreciate the sentiment. I also believe that prayer is helpful to them and I wouldn't want to rob them of that.

Speaking for myself, I do sometimes pray for people in this manner but it's something I do privately and often isn't directed to any particular god. Think of it as imploring the universe itself to make things work out. I suspect that everybody has done this at one time or another, though they might not view it as prayer.
There are going to be occasions when your ability to help somebody in a practical manner is limited or non-existent. Prayer is one method of easing the sense of powerlessness that kind of situation can cause.

Category 2 people can pray all they want, it's not going to change anything and I honestly find it kind of funny. It always reminds me of this comic:

 

[Rival]

It's not "getting into the minutia" to ask what the believer thinks their prayer will accomplish or how it can be reconciled with the rest of their belief system.

I've never once heard any sort of monotheist give a coherent explanation of what praying for God to intercede is supposed to accomplish. The only responses to the question that I get that are even internally consistent are along the lines of "*I* never make that type of prayer."

Most people, when told someone will pray for him or her, don't have this kind of response. This just also seems needlessly pedantic.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't care if people pray for me if it's innocuous and well-meaning and not intended to be backhanded.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think having somebody praying for me falls into one of two categories:

1. They want something good to happen to me such as recovery from an illness.
2. They disapprove of something about me and they want me to change it.

I'm perfectly happy for people in category 1 to pray for me and I appreciate the sentiment. I also believe that prayer is helpful to them and I wouldn't want to rob them of that.

I have two views on category 1:

At the individual level, it may be that this is the only coping strategy that the person has to deal with unfortunate events that we're powerless to stop. Fair enough.

At the group or system level, taking a huge number of people who are motivated to good and channelling their efforts into something completely useless and ineffectual is a great way to make the world worse than it could have been otherwise.

 

[Aštra’el]

Your consent is overrated, and for many things it is not required, at all.

If for whatever reason I were to mention you in my prayers- which I never would, but if I did- than be honored that I took time out of my life to even consider that you exist.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

Knothead on TikTok

Found a video on tiktok where someone, in a comment, responded to some evangelical Christians that they don't consent to their prayers. The evangelical Christians then made a video specifically praying for that individual despite their wishes. The video linked above is another Christian minister condemning that action as selfish, displaying false piety and even taking the Lord's name in vain.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race, I don't care if people pray for me and view it at best as functionally equivalent of well wishing, at worse as harmful as praying to Bruce Almighty.

But what do you think? Would you as a non-christian ask Christians to not pray for you, especially the passive aggressive 'I'll pray you change your mind?' As Christians would you respect the wishes of someone who asked you to not pray for them? Also, if you have another theistic belief, do you pray for people?

I'm not so neurotic about that kind of thing.

I myself may pray for some people personally on occasion.
I also pray for people in general during my ritual prayers, but never really include those who don't care about that stuff and those who might take offense to it.
Basically, I pray for those who are capable of "receiving" it.

 

[Erebus]

I have two views on category 1:

At the individual level, it may be that this is the only coping strategy that the person has to deal with unfortunate events that we're powerless to stop. Fair enough.

At the group or system level, taking a huge number of people who are motivated to good and channelling their efforts into something completely useless and ineffectual is a great way to make the world worse than it could have been otherwise.

We're pretty much in agreement regarding the individual level.

Regarding the group level, you may have a point but it strikes me as kind of impossible to prove either way. If somebody is willing to pray but not willing to help, would they have been willing to help if they didn't believe in prayer? If somebody is both willing to pray and willing to help, would the time they spend in prayer subtract from the time they would have otherwise spent helping?

Too many "what ifs" for me to agree or disagree with you on that one.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Your consent is overrated, and for many things it is not required, at all.

If for whatever reason I were to mention you in my prayers- which I never would, but if I did- than be honored that I took time out of my life to even consider that you exist.

Again, since I dont believe your (especially) juvenile edgelord gods exist except in the minds of mostly counter-culture arrested development people, you praying to them doesn't really make a difference to me. So feel free if you wanted to.

However, since I wouldn't be honored at all, you're also welcome to keep me in the 'never' category.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Most people, when told someone will pray for him or her, don't have this kind of response. This just also seems needlessly pedantic.

I think there's definitely a locational variation where some people's common experience with 'I'll pray for you' is meant maliciously or passive aggressively.

But I agree that overall it's not meant in the way the video shows.

Just take the higher road and politely accept it, imo.

I don't really gel with the idea of being polite to people who are being deliberately impolite. But I do agree that most of the time it's not worth the energy of fighting about it.

 

[Yerda]

But what do you think? Would you as a non-christian ask Christians to not pray for you, especially the passive aggressive 'I'll pray you change your mind?

No, that's daft.