I don't have a problem with the bible, i have a problem with hell...

[Pegg]

The 1611 King James Bible:

We all know Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

2"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice." - King James Verson 1611

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]He said: "In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry". - New international version
[/FONT]
We know what grave means. It a place where the dead are buried. It is translated from Hebrew (Sheoul)


So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..


If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking? They could have said "Now men won't leave our religon because of a fear of hell"

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being changed"

You are conflicted because what you read in the bible, and what you hear from the priests are not the same.

Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.”

in the KJV, the word highlighted is translated as 'hell', it literally means the grave... nothing more, nothing less.

and that is the truth. If you're church is teaching something different, then you need to find a new church.

 

[Mellonhead]

You are conflicted because what you read in the bible, and what you hear from the priests are not the same.

Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.”

in the KJV, the word highlighted is translated as 'hell', it literally means the grave... nothing more, nothing less.

and that is the truth. If you're church is teaching something different, then you need to find a new church.

Now that is a rather arrogant statement.

"If your church is teaching something other then what is taught in the book I specified, you should find a new one."

I think you should reword that.

 

[Pegg]

Now that is a rather arrogant statement.

"If your church is teaching something other then what is taught in the book I specified, you should find a new one."

I think you should reword that.

I do apologize if my statement sounds arrogant, but that is how I feel about it

its not the church's position to change the meanings of words into something they are not....i believe that would be more arrogant :yes:

 

[Mellonhead]

I do apologize if my statement sounds arrogant, but that is how I feel about it

its not the church's position to change the meanings of words into something they are not....i believe that would be more arrogant :yes:

Religion is all about twisting words and ideas, so I don't really see the problems.

 

[BruceDLimber]

As to context, you might want to bear in mind this quote from the Baha'i scriptures:


"(43) When were the heavens cleft asunder?

"While ye lay in the graves of waywardness and error."

--Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 133


Peace,

Bruce

 

[Mellonhead]

As to context, you might want to bear in mind this quote from the Baha'i scriptures:


"(43) When were the heavens cleft asunder?

"While ye lay in the graves of waywardness and error."

--Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 133


Peace,

Bruce

That's nothing. Quoting something with little context, something that in itself bares no proof while trying to detour question.

 

[Twig pentagram]

I don't have a problem with the bible or hell. I have a problem with the people who want me to believe in something that does'nt make sense to me. Your beliefs are your beliefs and my thoughts are my thoughts.

 

[outhouse]

So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..

Hell evolved while the book's were being written and perception of hell hasnt stopped

hell started off as sheol and the myth hades, both used as dirt pit or grave. Also used was ge-hinom which later became gehenna, gehenna was supposed to be a 24/7 burning trash dump outside the city. A place where sinners bodies were burned as well as garbage. This in my opinion is where the fiery hell starts. My opinion is that mistranslations finally led to hell as gehenna was supposed to have gates one would go through to get to the dump.

add the devil to the mix and biblical hell can be very confusing.

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being changed"

I feel just the opposite

I wish it would change with knowledge so there would be no confusion with evolution and the creation myth and all of science really.

 

[Flankerl]

I dont see a reason to dislike the idea of the sheol. After all my ancestors believed that every human being would end up in the sheol so its fair.

And one should be careful about gehenna/ge-hinom and take into account when, why and by whom it was written. Its just an explanation of history.



But hell? Hehe no doesnt exist.

 

[waitasec]

"you shall surely die"
~god
i can see how death is considered hell. and the believers will live in heaven in the presence of god.

i guess since death is inevitable...a new idea had to come to the table in order to gain control over the masses...so the image of death was embellished a bit

wonder how low the bar can go, holding your loved ones for ransom?

 

[Penumbra]

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking?

Actually, I've never read a text more violent than the Bible.

I'm sure there are some out there, but I don't know what they are.

 

[Muffled]

The 1611 King James Bible:

We all know Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

2"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice." - King James Verson 1611

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]He said: "In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry". - New international version[/FONT]

We know what grave means. It a place where the dead are buried. It is translated from Hebrew (Sheoul)


So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..


If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking? They could have said "Now men won't leave our religon because of a fear of hell"

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being changed"

Translating sheol as hell probably made sense in the days of King James but languages change and it helps to have a Bible written in an understandable language. The change is meant to increase understanding not change it.

 

[BruceDLimber]

That's nothing. Quoting something with little context, something that in itself bares no proof while trying to detour question.

I "detoured" no question, but rather provided something relevant to what you'd posted.

So you want context?

Fine! Here's the context:

This is sometimes known as the Tablet to the Coppersmith:

"Among others, these perspicuous verses have, in answer to certain individuals, been sent down from the Kingdom of Divine knowledge: 'O thou who hast set thy face towards the splendors of My Countenance! Vague fancies have encompassed the dwellers of the earth and debarred them from turning towards the Horizon of Certitude, and its brightness, and its manifestations and its lights. Vain imaginings have withheld them from Him Who is the Self-Subsisting. They speak as prompted by their own caprices, and understand not. Among them are those who have said: `Have the verses been sent down?' Say: `Yea, by Him Who is the Lord of the heavens!' `Hath the Hour come?' `Nay, more; it hath passed, by Him Who is the Revealer of clear tokens! Verily, the Inevitable is come, and He, the True One, hath appeared with proof and testimony. The Plain is disclosed, and mankind is sore vexed and fearful. Earthquakes have broken loose, and the tribes have lamented, for fear of God, the Lord of Strength, the All-Compelling.' Say: `The stunning trumpet blast hath been loudly raised, and the Day is God's, the One, the Unconstrained.' `Hath the Catastrophe come to pass?' Say: `Yea, by the Lord of Lords!' `Is the Resurrection come?' `Nay, more; He Who is the Self-Subsisting hath appeared with the Kingdom of His signs.' `Seest thou men laid low?' `Yea, by my Lord, the Exalted, the Most High!' `Have the tree-stumps been uprooted?' `Yea, more; the mountains have been scattered in dust; by Him the Lord of attributes!' They say: `Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?' Say: `The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self, O thou who dost associate a partner with God and doubtest.' They say: `We see not the Balance.' Say: `Surely, by my Lord, the God of Mercy! None can see it except such as are endued with insight.' `Have the stars fallen?' Say: `Yea, when He Who is the Self-Subsisting dwelt in the Land of Mystery (Adrianople). Take heed, ye who are endued with discernment!' All the signs appeared when We drew forth the Hand of Power from the bosom of majesty and might. Verily, the Crier hath cried out, when the promised time came, and they that have recognized the splendors of Sinai have swooned away in the wilderness of hesitation, before the awful majesty of thy Lord, the Lord of creation. The trumpet asketh: `Hath the Bugle been sounded?' Say: `Yea, by the King of Revelation!, when He mounted the throne of His Name, the All-Merciful.' Darkness hath been chased away by the dawning-light of the mercy of thy Lord, the Source of all light. The breeze of the All-Merciful hath wafted, and the souls have been quickened in the tombs of their bodies. Thus hath the decree been fulfilled by God, the Mighty, the Beneficent. They that have gone astray have said: `When were the heavens cleft asunder?' Say: `While ye lay in the graves of waywardness and error.' Among the heedless is he who rubbeth his eyes, and looketh to the right and to the left. Say: `Blinded art thou. No refuge hast thou to flee to.' And among them is he who saith: `Have men been gathered together?' Say: `Yea, by my Lord!, whilst thou didst lie in the cradle of idle fancies.' And among them is he who saith: `Hath the Book been sent down through the power of the true Faith?' Say: `The true Faith itself is astounded. Fear ye, O ye men of understanding heart!' And among them is he who saith: `Have I been assembled with others, blind?' Say: `Yea, by Him that rideth upon the clouds!' Paradise is decked with mystic roses, and hell hath been made to blaze with the fire of the impious. Say: `The light hath shone forth from the horizon of Revelation, and the whole earth hath been illumined at the coming of Him Who is the Lord of the Day of the Covenant!' The doubters have perished, whilst he that turned, guided by the light of assurance, unto the Dayspring of Certitude hath prospered. Blessed art thou, who hast fixed thy gaze upon Me, for this Tablet which hath been sent down for thee--a Tablet which causeth the souls of men to soar. Commit it to memory, and recite it. By My life! It is a door to the mercy of thy Lord. Well is it with him that reciteth it at eventide and at dawn. We, verily, hear thy praise of this Cause, through which the mountain of knowledge was crushed, and men's feet have slipped. My glory be upon thee and upon whomsoever hath turned unto the Almighty, the All-Bounteous. The Tablet is ended, but the theme is unexhausted. Be patient, for thy Lord is patient."
--Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, pp. 131-134

And if you want yet more context, we have many more volumes of scripture! You can find them here: Bahá'í Library Online under the "Writings" rubric.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[lilmama1991]

Hell doesnt mean what fake christians teach a fiery place.Jonah got swallowed by a whale which was supposed to be his grave.Also you here some people say burn in hell which is false but the true saying is rot in hell which makes more since because your bones will rot and decompose soon or later while you're dead

 

[mmksparbud]

Burning in hell forever and ever is a fallacy. First of all, Ezek 18:4 and 20--"the soul that sinneth it shall die"--In the garden the first lie to Eve was "thou shall not truly die"--Only God is immortal 1tim 6:18---Adam and eve were thrown out of the garden and a cherubim and flaming sword were placed at the east gate to keep them from eating of the tree of life and living forever-Gen 3:22. So apparently God has given life sustaining properties to this tree. Everybody knows John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."--Eternal life is given to the saved not to the lost. The saved will eat of the tree of life. Now, does anyone think that God and His angels and all the saved are going to be gathering the fruit of this tree and chucking it over to the people in this lake of fire so they can keep living and burning??? God is not giving eternal life to the lost so they can't possibly be burning forever and ever. And how about if you have a much loved child who at 15 turns into a drunk, drug addicted, child molesting, thief and murderer and you are saved but the child is not. Are you going to be just thrilled and ever so happy to see this child burning in agaony forever and ever?? A parent loves their children, even if they are bad and that would bring no joy to anyone. Lucifer was a much loved creation of God, the covering cherub, he was decked out in jewels and beautiful, inspite of all the horrors he has done, it would bring no joy to God to see His creation burning forever. God takes no joy in the death of the lost Ezek 18:32. It is something that must take place to wipe out sin, but nobody is going to be happy looking over at a sea of bodies writhing in pain and agony. "For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave neither root nor branch." The lost will go into the lake of fire and each will pay according to their sins and then that is it---the earth will be made new and they will be remembered no more. No one goes to heaven or hell at death--When Christ comes back "His reward is with Him"--The saved dead will arise to meet God with the saved that are alive, "the living will not arise to meet Him ahead of those who are in their graves" 1 Thes 4:15. The saved dead are not in heaven right now. They await the call of Jesus--as Lazarus did. Christ said Lazarus was asleep--finally had to say dead to make deciples understand. If he went to heaven, why bring him back to earth, if he was in hell, why would he have left him there suffering for 4 days?--Read Psalms 88:10-12, Psalm 115:17, Eccl 9:5. The words of everlasting fire used in the bible is just biblical writing meaning a fire that can not be put out. Even with these huge forest fires, they have been called unstoppable--unquenchable.

 

[McBell]

Burning in hell forever and ever is a fallacy. First of all, Ezek 18:4 and 20--"the soul that sinneth it shall die"--In the garden the first lie to Eve was "thou shall not truly die"--Only God is immortal 1tim 6:18---Adam and eve were thrown out of the garden and a cherubim and flaming sword were placed at the east gate to keep them from eating of the tree of life and living forever-Gen 3:22. So apparently God has given life sustaining properties to this tree. Everybody knows John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."--Eternal life is given to the saved not to the lost. The saved will eat of the tree of life. Now, does anyone think that God and His angels and all the saved are going to be gathering the fruit of this tree and chucking it over to the people in this lake of fire so they can keep living and burning??? God is not giving eternal life to the lost so they can't possibly be burning forever and ever. And how about if you have a much loved child who at 15 turns into a drunk, drug addicted, child molesting, thief and murderer and you are saved but the child is not. Are you going to be just thrilled and ever so happy to see this child burning in agaony forever and ever?? A parent loves their children, even if they are bad and that would bring no joy to anyone. Lucifer was a much loved creation of God, the covering cherub, he was decked out in jewels and beautiful, inspite of all the horrors he has done, it would bring no joy to God to see His creation burning forever. God takes no joy in the death of the lost Ezek 18:32. It is something that must take place to wipe out sin, but nobody is going to be happy looking over at a sea of bodies writhing in pain and agony. "For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave neither root nor branch." The lost will go into the lake of fire and each will pay according to their sins and then that is it---the earth will be made new and they will be remembered no more. No one goes to heaven or hell at death--When Christ comes back "His reward is with Him"--The saved dead will arise to meet God with the saved that are alive, "the living will not arise to meet Him ahead of those who are in their graves" 1 Thes 4:15. The saved dead are not in heaven right now. They await the call of Jesus--as Lazarus did. Christ said Lazarus was asleep--finally had to say dead to make deciples understand. If he went to heaven, why bring him back to earth, if he was in hell, why would he have left him there suffering for 4 days?--Read Psalms 88:10-12, Psalm 115:17, Eccl 9:5. The words of everlasting fire used in the bible is just biblical writing meaning a fire that can not be put out. Even with these huge forest fires, they have been called unstoppable--unquenchable.

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