• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

I don't know where to post this topic at...but why do Catholics pray to Mary?

Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
The Bible says that "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."(Jam 5:16) and that the saints offer prayers in heaven(Rev 5:8).

Have you ever asked someone to pray for you?
 
sallieran

sallieran

Member
Except Mister Emu, when a Baptist Reads Revelations 5:8, the belief is that "the prayers of the saints" are the prayers of all believers, we are all saints of God. It seems that the references of "saints" in the New Testament refers to all true believers. In the current trend, then it would be the same in Revelation as well. This may be semantics, but it may be the root of where some of the confusion comes from between Catholics and Protestants.
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Except Mister Emu, when a Baptist Reads Revelations 5:8, the belief is that "the prayers of the saints" are the prayers of all believers, we are all saints of God.
Click to expand...
I agree. The Church Triumphant is assuredly in the "saints" category in my opinion, do you agree?
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
The Church Triumphant refers to those who are in Heaven, while the Church Militant refers to the living Christians on earth.
 
sallieran

sallieran

Member
yes. I believe that they are walking and talking with God at this vary moment. but the divergence in thought is the thought that since they are dead, they cannot hear our prayers/ supplications for intercession.
 
3.14

3.14

Well-Known Member
if it doesn't hurt why shouldn't you, there are people who pray to there lucky rabbits foot
 
R

Random

Well-Known Member
I'm very fond of the Goddess, and Mary is just about the only representatively divine template for one left in the world. I go to Church to light 3 candles for Her all the time, whisper a prayer and show respect. When I'm stuck, I ask her directly for help, as I think well if she wants to get God to do it, then OK: but asking God would be weird (for me). I'm not a practicing Catholic, and I don't care what dogma or doctrine this thoroughly enjoyable and spiritual experience violates. It makes me happy.

But then, I like Buddha Tara too...:D
 
trinity2359

trinity2359

Active Member
sallieran said:
yes. I believe that they are walking and talking with God at this vary moment. but the divergence in thought is the thought that since they are dead, they cannot hear our prayers/ supplications for intercession.
Click to expand...

We agree, that when you are dead, you cannot hear prayers. But, in heaven, you can hear prayers.

"One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding. "

Praying to the Saints
 
sallieran

sallieran

Member
trinity2359 said:
We agree, that when you are dead, you cannot hear prayers. But, in heaven, you can hear prayers.

"One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding. "

Praying to the Saints
Click to expand...

I went back to look at the passage (Rev 5:8) again to see any new insight in light of saints and prayers, but I could not find anything that said that the anyone but God had specific benefit from the prayers, or even knew what was being said in the prayers.

I guess my own personal take on praying to a Saint would be:

(1) God hears every prayer. He knows every heart. He will not be upset with you for the sheer fact that you ask him for something. The Bible makes it clear that we have been adopted into his family. He LOVES us, each of us.

(2)When God has a decision to make, he does not rely on the opinion or the support of saints already in Heaven. He hears what we have to say, what we think and hope, our intentions, and the outcome of every possible decision/action/thought. What then would it mean for someone who is not God, who is not even close, to support or not support our supplication?

(3)When someone wants to ask me for something, it means more to me when they approach me themselves to ask. It would almost be an insult if they circumvented me to ask my mom to ask me... or ask one of my friends to ask me. How much different is it to pray to Mary or a Saint to intercede with God on my behalf?

(4) For so many people, prayers are so very personal. When people pray, they can be vulnerable in a way that they are not at any other time. I don't know if God would allow them to be shared with "the group" necissarily.

I do not say any of this to be difficult or insulting, so if it seems that way to you, please tell me. But it seems counter intuitive to not address my prayers directly to God. If it was a buisness structure, I might send my request through my immediate boss to send to the higher-ups, but God is not that way. He is my immediate boss. Why go through a co-worker?
 
sallieran

sallieran

Member
trinity2359 said:
We agree, that when you are dead, you cannot hear prayers. But, in heaven, you can hear prayers.

"One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding. "

Praying to the Saints
Click to expand...

I went back to look at the passage (Rev 5:8) again to see any new insight in light of saints and prayers, but I could not find anything that said that the anyone but God had specific benefit from the prayers, or even knew what was being said in the prayers.

I guess my own personal take on praying to a Saint would be:

(1) God hears every prayer. He knows every heart. He will not be upset with you for the sheer fact that you ask him for something. The Bible makes it clear that we have been adopted into his family. He LOVES us, each of us.

(2)When God has a decision to make, he does not rely on the opinion or the support of saints already in Heaven. He hears what we have to say, what we think and hope, our intentions, and the outcome of every possible decision/action/thought. What then would it mean for someone who is not God, who is not even close, to support or not support our supplication?

(3)When someone wants to ask me for something, it means more to me when they approach me themselves to ask. It would almost be an insult if they circumvented me to ask my mom to ask me... or ask one of my friends to ask me. How much different is it to pray to Mary or a Saint to intercede with God on my behalf?

(4) For so many people, prayers are so very personal. When people pray, they can be vulnerable in a way that they are not at any other time. I don't know if God would allow them to be shared with "the group" necissarily.

I do not say any of this to be difficult or insulting, so if it seems that way to you, please tell me. But it seems counter intuitive to not address my prayers directly to God. If it was a buisness structure, I might send my request through my immediate boss to send to the higher-ups, but God is not that way. He is my immediate boss. Why go through a co-worker?
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
(3)When someone wants to ask me for something, it means more to me when they approach me themselves to ask. It would almost be an insult if they circumvented me to ask my mom to ask me... or ask one of my friends to ask me. How much different is it to pray to Mary or a Saint to intercede with God on my behalf
Click to expand...
Do you ever ask others to pray for you?

edit:
All in all, I, personally, am much more comfortable praying directly to God, and don't pray through any of the saints(I used to be Baptist), but if one is comfortable doing both, they should...
 
Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
What about people in a car accident that are about to die that believe they cannot talk directly to God and need a Priest to hear their confession or they may burn in hell. Is there any truth to that?

Why would you need anyone to intercede for you?
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
What about people in a car accident that are about to die that believe they cannot talk directly to God and need a Priest to hear their confession or they may burn in hell. Is there any truth to that?
Click to expand...
Good Lord, I hope no one really believes that... I am mostly certain that such a thing is not taught in the Church...
 
Scott1

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Reverend Rick said:
What about people in a car accident that are about to die that believe they cannot talk directly to God and need a Priest to hear their confession or they may burn in hell. Is there any truth to that?
Click to expand...
If the people in the car accident are Roman Catholics who have a mortal sin on their conscience only they will know the state of their conscience. If they have what is called "perfect contrition" (which is sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed that is based upon a love by which God is loved above all else) their sins would be forgiven even without the Sacrament of "Confession".

If not..... well..... let's just say dying with an unconfessed (or imperfectly confessed) mortal sin prevents a person from going to heaven.:(
Why would you need anyone to intercede for you?
Click to expand...
We believe that the Church is a "communion of saints" and that it is our fundamental duty as Christians to love one another as God has loved us.... and part of that love is to ask for the prayers of the faithful to the one mediator that is Jesus Christ.

In other words: we're family and we stick together.:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top