I don't think one should recommend reading the quran first

[Rogn]

I have pretty good reason for it. It will just make it all confusing. Like when i read the quran for the first time i didn't understand the hoot of it other than disbelievers will burn and believers will go to paradise etc. There are actually hidden meanings in the passages that is a context to what you see in Hadiths or siras.

So what i will recommend is to first read "Sahih al-bukhari" 100% authentic, can't be wrong.
Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
after that then sira... although in compared to sahih al-bukhari siras are by muslims more sceptical in some part depending on weak isnads and that makes it less authentic, so be sure to find a critical analysis translation. I read one involving arab historians "Ibn Hisham, al-tabari and al-waqidi"

And finally. Now you should read the quran because now you have more of the context in general, so you can put those all together in the quran. Although i will recommend reading it in chronological order, i made that mistake by reading the quran first, but i also read it unchronologically, so you have no idea what is first and what comes later since quran is set up to go by the longest to the shortest verse. So here is a site where you can click on each quran in chronological order from 1 til 114.
Chronological Order of the Qur'an - WikiIslam
I use this one to double check though
Revelation Order of the Quran

What do you guys think

 

[Khudayar]

Hello, Mr. Rogn.

It is interesting your first post on the forum is about this. Which makes us suspicious you may be one of the old members with a different account. However, if you are new, then welcome to the forum. And please check the rules of every DIR before you post in it.

And careful about anti-Islamic websites. For instance, "wikiislam" which you referred us to is an Islamophobic one.

As for your topic, yes, importance does not always mean priority. And I suggest to non-muslims and new muslims as well, these books first:

http://www.islamicmobility.com/pdf/Islamic Teachings in Brief .pdf (Islamic Teachings in Brief by Allama Tabatabai)

Spiritual Discourses | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org (Spiritual Discourses by Ayatullah Mutahhari)

Basic Teachings of Islam (Basic Teachings of Islam by Dr. Beheshti)

Man and Universe | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org (God, Man and Universe by Ayatullah Mutahhari)

Man And Islam: Ali Shariati, Fatollah Marjani: 9781889999395: Amazon.com: Books (Man and Islam by Dr. Ali Shariati)

The Message | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org (The Message by Jafar Subhani)

Thank you and May Allah bless you. And may we be slow but firm-continuous on our studies.

 

[Rogn]

Tanakh is hebrew old testament basically. But i don't think its that much difference from the biblical old testament, i mean slight. For example i have heard it refers to young woman instead of virgin in some places. But if you have read the old testament. How much difference is there? (Going a little off topic with this though ^^)

And careful about anti-Islamic websites. For instance, "wikiislam"

I know, which is why i double check on that other site in terms of chronological order. Its easier for me to click on each one and read instead of going to quran.com and read and click in terms of chronology.

Yeah i have been here before, but i quited and now i have returned. I don't remember my user though, been long time since i was here

 

[Kirran]

A question for Muslims here on RF: do you think reading the Qur'an alone is sufficient to accept entirely, and accurately, the message of Islam? If so, are any translations of the Qur'an good enough for this, or would this only be the case in the Classical Arabic?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Guys respect Dir rules. I didnt come up with the Law of Dir. Just questions, no debates. Thank You so much.


@Kirran Quran alone is indeed sufficient to clean the heart and to do good works. It calls to love Allah, follow his messenger and do good deeds.
Now also Allah the Allmighty says Take whatever the messenger gives you, and whatever he prohibits you stay away from it. Also our Lord says: and whoever obeyed the messenger has indeed obeyed Allah.
In other verse Allah tells us : By Your Lord, they are not real believers until they make you(Muhammad PBUH) full judge in all their affairs.


Now to follow all these verses we need to follow the sunnah/lifestyle of our holy prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. That means we need Hadiths beside Quran. But unlike Quran, there are many fabricated hadiths. Only Quran is 100% authentic words from Allah, not changed, not deleted, no 2/3 of quran missing as some from the deviated groups claim.

In the Noble Quran its stated pray 5 times a day, in Hadith it says how to pray, what to say, which supplications to use. How many voluntarily prayers can you do beside the 5 prayers?
In Quran it says fast the month of ramadan, in hadith we find what breaks fasting.

The Prophet's words in Authentic hadiths is not from his own desire. He does not speak from his own self. In some occasions when prophet pbuh had consultation with the companions, he said something about military strategy , a companion wanted to give a better opinion but respectfully asked the messenger pbuh: is this inspiration or from your own opinion? The messenger pbuh said it was his own opinion. And this happened at the battle of badr, where to station the army of the muslims. This shows that there is Muhammad the prophet pbuh and Muhammad the human, may Allah bless him.
Also when Makkans besieged Madina for a while, the messenger of Allah pbuh was consulted by Salman the Persian may Allah be pleased with him. He told the prophet PBUH to dig defensive trench around madina areas where the enemy can attack.

However when prophet peace be upon him came with spiritual messages, it was inspiration, not opinions.

 

[LuisDantas]

I just want to point out that this is indeed the Islam DIR.

Because it is a DIR, it is no place for debate.

Because it is specifically the Islam DIR, it is also no place for non-Muslims to make assertive statements.

Anyone feeling the need to make such statements should probably create a thread in the debate areas.

Sorry for intruding. I hope you can accept that my intent is just to stop further derailing of this thread.

 

[Kirran]

Guys respect Dir rules. I didnt come up with the Law of Dir. Just questions, no debates. Thank You so much.


@Kirran Quran alone is indeed sufficient to clean the heart and to do good works. It calls to love Allah, follow his messenger and do good deeds.
Now also Allah the Allmighty says Take whatever the messenger gives you, and whatever he prohibits you stay away from it. Also our Lord says: and whoever obeyed the messenger has indeed obeyed Allah.
In other verse Allah tells us : By Your Lord, they are not real believers until they make you(Muhammad PBUH) full judge in all their affairs.


Now to follow all these verses we need to follow the sunnah/lifestyle of our holy prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. That means we need Hadiths beside Quran. But unlike Quran, there are many fabricated hadiths. Only Quran is 100% authentic words from Allah, not changed, not deleted, no 2/3 of quran missing as some from the deviated groups claim.

In the Noble Quran its stated pray 5 times a day, in Hadith it says how to pray, what to say, which supplications to use. How many voluntarily prayers can you do beside the 5 prayers?
In Quran it says fast the month of ramadan, in hadith we find what breaks fasting.

The Prophet's words in Authentic hadiths is not from his own desire. He does not speak from his own self. In some occasions when prophet pbuh had consultation with the companions, he said something about military strategy , a companion wanted to give a better opinion but respectfully asked the messenger pbuh: is this inspiration or from your own opinion? The messenger pbuh said it was his own opinion. And this happened at the battle of badr, where to station the army of the muslims. This shows that there is Muhammad the prophet pbuh and Muhammad the human, may Allah bless him.
Also when Makkans besieged Madina for a while, the messenger of Allah pbuh was consulted by Salman the Persian may Allah be pleased with him. He told the prophet PBUH to dig defensive trench around madina areas where the enemy can attack.

However when prophet peace be upon him came with spiritual messages, it was inspiration, not opinions.

Thanks Servant. I'm glad to get your perspective on this - especially the distinction between Muhammad in his two roles. That makes a lot of sense.

Are Muhammad's opinions also to be followed? Or could a Muslim disagree with those?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Thanks Servant. I'm glad to get your perspective on this - especially the distinction between Muhammad in his two roles. That makes a lot of sense.

Are Muhammad's opinions also to be followed? Or could a Muslim disagree with those?

You are welcome.

Well as i know from religious lessons, the sunnah of prophet Muhammad pbuh are inspiration, however they are not compulsory on the muslims.
So if a muslim doesnt do some sunnah, there is no blame on him. I see following the sunnah as Bonus, its a way to show your love for Allah and his messenger pbuh.

 

[Sabour]

A question for Muslims here on RF: do you think reading the Qur'an alone is sufficient to accept entirely, and accurately, the message of Islam? If so, are any translations of the Qur'an good enough for this, or would this only be the case in the Classical Arabic?

Personally I wouldn't say that there is a best way for everyone. For some people it would be enough to read only the Quraan and reflect on it for others it won't. This depends on lots of things. One can't have a building without the foundation.

What I would suggest for example is listening to Islam revert stories, I would recommend watching episodes from a series called guided through the Quraan. Another recommendation for example is listening to Dr. Zakir Naik Q & A, he receives lots of questions from Hindus.

Another steps that could be taken are reading about Islamic history (from Islamic sources) and reading about the life of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

However, the single most important thing in the process is asking for guidance and seeking the truth with the heart, as prophet Jesus peace be upon him said.

 

[Rogn]

he said something about military strategy , a companion wanted to give a better opinion but respectfully asked the messenger pbuh: is this inspiration or from your own opinion? The messenger pbuh said it was his own opinion. And this happened at the battle of badr, where to station the army of the muslims. This shows that there is Muhammad the prophet pbuh and Muhammad the human, may Allah bless him.

With all due respect. Does this mean that "Quran 9:29" which means fight unbelievers in terms of it being next last sura. Is this from god or muhammad. I assume god since its in the quran, but according to some other interpretation some have suggested it ment in the past in terms of spreading islam, which now is not nessesary anymore. But i guess some interpret it for "its forever" this quote.

Just wondering what your opinion is

 

[Sabour]

With all due respect. Does this mean that "Quran 9:29" which means fight unbelievers in terms of it being next last sura. Is this from god or muhammad. I assume god since its in the quran, but according to some other interpretation some have suggested it ment in the past in terms of spreading islam, which now is not nessesary anymore. But i guess some interpret it for "its forever" this quote.

Just wondering what your opinion is

There are too many points one should know when talking about this verse. The first thing is that the message of Islam should be read as a whole and in order to know the meaning of some verses we have to talk about other verses in order to understand the whole picture.

One might say that this verse means to fight unbelievers. I say let us review if we may.

60:8 Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

4:90 Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

29:46 And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

3:113-114
113 They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer].
114 They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous.


3:75 And among the People of the Scripture is he who, if you entrust him with a great amount [of wealth], he will return it to you. And among them is he who, if you entrust him with a [single] silver coin, he will not return it to you unless you are constantly standing over him [demanding it]. That is because they say, "There is no blame upon us concerning the unlearned." And they speak untruth about Allah while they know [it].

49:13 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

5:82 You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.


Those verses clearly show that Islam and Quraan tells us to live with the others in peace.

For the fighting part, we have to see how fighting should be dealt with in Islam in light of the other verses to understand.

Let me put these verses from chapter 2.

190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.


From these verses we learn than when it comes to fighting there are four things we should keep in mind

1- From verse 191, we should only fight those who fight us.
2- From verse 191, we should not transgress.
3- Fighting in these verses is for those who started the fight with the muslims and expelled them/
4- Even if they were the ones who started fighting, muslims are supposed to stop if the other side stopped. And muslims here are reminded that Allah is forgiving and merciful.

However, unfortunately the only thing that some people quote from these verses is the kill them wherever you find them and neglect the many conditions that are put forward when it comes to fighting. I think people today should follow these conditions.

And let it be clear that if any of the conditions mentioned is not met, than fighting is condemned in Islam.

And Allah knows best ...

 

[Rogn]

Aha i get it. I know that Sura 2 was the first revealed stuff in medina. But i dont think there is any abrogation in fight if they fight but stop if they do etc.

But i've also read some stuff in bukhari like "Sailing on green seas like kings" Sahih al-Bukhari 2877. But there are stuff i've also read in especially Bukhari book 56 jihad and Book 64 military.

Although i am thankful for your explanation. Although when i first read those books my asumption was these two books could be used to justify terrorism and glorifies martyrdom. For example, it says "One of three best thing for a muslim to do is jihad", in terms of women it is pilgrimage atleast.

Just wondering what you think.

 

[Sabour]

Aha i get it. I know that Sura 2 was the first revealed stuff in medina. But i dont think there is any abrogation in fight if they fight but stop if they do etc.

But i've also read some stuff in bukhari like "Sailing on green seas like kings" Sahih al-Bukhari 2877. But there are stuff i've also read in especially Bukhari book 56 jihad and Book 64 military.

Although i am thankful for your explanation. Although when i first read those books my asumption was these two books could be used to justify terrorism and glorifies martyrdom. For example, it says "One of three best thing for a muslim to do is jihad", in terms of women it is pilgrimage atleast.

Just wondering what you think.

You are asking too many questions here and not full ones, only bits here and bits there, I have to say your approach reminds me of someone here on the forums.

As I told you, in order for us to judge on anything, we must take a holistic view on the subject in hand. For instance, as for Jihad, we have to know that the meaning of the word Jihad is "to struggle". In that sense Jihad doesn't always necessarily refer to fighting, and when it does, the conditions are very clear in the verses I have already mentioned.

Other forms of Jihad for example are Jihad against one self, as when one tries to stay on the right path and don't fall into sins. Another Jihad is Jihad on ignorance. An example for that maybe allocating some money for people for the purpose of seeking knowledge. Or it may be as simple as offering information and helping others in understanding stuff.

As for using some texts to justify evil needs, that can be done easily with the cut and paste technique. Anyone can make stories told to little kids seem brutal if he used that technique. We can make anything says whatever we want if we know how to stretch things and put them out of their context.

 

[Rogn]

Interesting, i'll keep it in mind. I love reading the quran now. Its much clear with the context of it. Btw, have you read many hadith collection or just one like i have. Just a curious question ^^