I don't trust religious people anymore

[VegasRich]

Well, at least you're aware that you're a bigot. Most people don't have the balls to admit their bigotries.

Wow a bigot huh? And yeah, why not say what i think. It doesnt change the facts. I still have to work with religious people. I never said religious people are all evil although i think religion itself can be very dangerous. I have met plenty of people who are religious that are extremely good people, that does not mean i trust them to make decisions that effect my way of life.

I guess it is the libertarian in me that see's it this way. If it does not affect me in any way or infringe upon my rights then to each their own. My problem comes when somebody else's religious beliefs do affect our laws and the way our government handles things..like stem cell research for example.

In my opinion it is a incredibly usefull science and should be funded both privately and publically but certain people are totally against it because of their religious beliefs. I think this is very dangerous and slows down our growth of society. I guess it's a good thing the steam engine isnt a religious issue...well maybe for the amish it is but nobody listens to them anyway.

 

[VegasRich]

I'm an atheist too, but I wouldn't say that religion is illogical. Some parts of them are, such as creationism or anything else that goes directly against the scientific understanding of the world, but belief in a God, an afterlife or higher power isn't illogical. Most people are metaphysical dualists and from that point of view most religions are highly logical, as something must fill the spiritual parts of the world. Most people are capable of thinking critically about their own religious beliefs or non-beliefs, the danger is fundamentalism, not religion.

Apart from the supernatural beliefs, there are also several other functions of religions, such as comfort and community, both of which I would say are good things.

I'm religious too, as religion doesn't necessarily involve any Gods, souls or spirits. What's your take on pantheism?

Well since i don't believe in a god..i do not agree with Pantheism. Even if science cannot fully explain events such as the creation of the universe, that does not mean that an omnipotent being did create the universe or exists at all.

I agree with you 100% that some functions of religion are a good thing and that is not my concern at all. As i have stated plenty of times , religious people are for the most part good people, they help each other..do good in the community..don't murder or steal..ya know..good people. With that said, i do not want those people deciding how our society should be governed or laws made based on their belief that they must do good or they wont get to heaven.

I believe that if people stripped away the mystical parts of their religion and just chose to do good for goodness sake the world would be a much better place.

 

[VegasRich]

It would be helpful to know how you arrived at your present belief system. You indicate that your mother was a person with religious beliefs. Therefore it would seem to follow that you were raised in something of a religious environment and had a religious faith as a child and perhaps well into adulthood. At some point, obviously, you came to the conclusion that all forms of theism were in error and that atheism was not. It would be helpful to know how and why this metamorphosis occurred,

No, my mom recently converted to Christianity, she was actually brought up Jewish and was taught of a vengeful and punishing god. We were raised with no talk of church or god..we celebrated holidays like christmas because it was more fun than Hanukkah and we were told it was a time to celebrate your family and give them gifts because you love them..and that was all.

Of course growing up in the area i did there were Old Jewish men and Italian Catholics all over the place..a large church right down the street and not far from that a Temple for the Jews..everybody got along for the most part and as i pointed out Religion was not at all present in our home.

How i came to know that there is no god, or yaweh or heavenly father, Zeus , Odin, Shiva or any other fictional being is just through the sheer lack of evidence to support the claim. After all that is why people have to "Have Faith" because if they had evidence they would not need faith.

I have a very close friend who is also an Atheist and we talk almost daily about religious people, we currently are talking to Mormons in our community about their faith and their claims about the BOM. They make some lofty claims..we investigate them and have found more than enough evidence to support that the BOM is not True nor Perfect as they claim..but yet the Mormons just ignore the evidence.

I have a Born Again Christian friend at work, he is a real charachter and has told me on many occasions that i'm going to hell for my beliefs..i think it's hilarious and we get into it all the time.. He is a good worker, very skilled and bright and can do his job very well but he also sits on the almost polar opposite of me on political issues based on his faith alone..scares the hell out of me.

 

[VegasRich]

Considering that very few religions hold a view that an "invisible man in the sky controls everything" I'd say your view of what "religious people" believe is highly misinformed. I have a hard time respecting those who tend to speak about thing as if they know what they are talking about when, in fact, they haven't a got clue.

Well since some obscure religion based in the middle of East Africa are believes that locusts are god's i'm not going to worry about it since it has no effect on me whatsoever and since those people are not influencing my life they can believe what they want to believe. I do not have to trust them do i?

And you do not have to respect me either, these are my opinions and i'm having conversations with people about them..looking for people to challenge my beliefs and offer me evidence that maybe i'm going about things the wrong way.

The invisible man in the sky is clearly a general term to encompass all dieties. If you cannot figure that out and want to take it literally i cannot stop you. If you want to pray to your cat , dog or fish tank then have at it as well, of course if this is the case i probably wouldnt trust your decision making skills any more.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Well since i don't believe in a god..i do not agree with Pantheism. Even if science cannot fully explain events such as the creation of the universe, that does not mean that an omnipotent being did create the universe or exists at all.

The pantheistic God is the Universe itself, and I was referring to naturalistic pantheism, which I failed to mention. It includes nothing supernatural, but it's still religious. Most nat. pantheists are fond of science and many of our best scientists are nat. pantheists.

I agree with you 100% that some functions of religion are a good thing and that is not my concern at all. As i have stated plenty of times , religious people are for the most part good people, they help each other..do good in the community..don't murder or steal..ya know..good people. With that said, i do not want those people deciding how our society should be governed or laws made based on their belief that they must do good or they wont get to heaven.

I don't think religious beliefs should show in politics either. Our laws should be based on the basic principle that if it doesn't hurt anyone, then it should be legal. Therefore it's stupid to try and ban things like gay marriage.

 

[JohnLeo]

No, my mom recently converted to Christianity, she was actually brought up Jewish and was taught of a vengeful and punishing god. We were raised with no talk of church or god..we celebrated holidays like christmas because it was more fun than Hanukkah and we were told it was a time to celebrate your family and give them gifts because you love them..and that was all.

Of course growing up in the area i did there were Old Jewish men and Italian Catholics all over the place..a large church right down the street and not far from that a Temple for the Jews..everybody got along for the most part and as i pointed out Religion was not at all present in our home.

How i came to know that there is no god, or yaweh or heavenly father, Zeus , Odin, Shiva or any other fictional being is just through the sheer lack of evidence to support the claim. After all that is why people have to "Have Faith" because if they had evidence they would not need faith..

I tend to agree completely that there is not a shred of evidence to support the God claim of theists, theologians and religionists. These beliefs are based on so called holy books such as bibles, korans, talmuds, etc which are believed to be of divine origin. The fact is they are not of divine origin and this can be easily demonstrated. In view of this it is not surprising that many people, such as yourself, come to the perfectly logical conclusion that a god or gods or deity of any sort does not exist. If theism is wrong than atheism must be right.
Actually there is a flaw in this line of reasoning. The fact that the god of the theists and religionists is a fictional creation does not automatically eliminate the possibility of a creative force or higher intelligence in the universe. We deists believe that there is indeed very subtle evidence for such a creative force in the grandeur and complexity of the universe as a whole and many complex biological processes here on earth. Is the evidence conclusive? No. But it is suggestive. As deists we do not pretend to have any knowledge concerning the nature or motives of that creative force. But we do believe strongly that in the area of religious faith, to have it requires a suspension of reason.

 

[Me Myself]

Well i grew up in an Italian/Jewish community in the Bronx before moving out west. Plenty of mormons live in Vegas, Catholics, Evangelicals..you name it. Las Vegas believe it or not has a pretty diverse religious population. Actually more churches in this town per capita then most cities in the U.S

If by mispelling a word or two means you lose respect for my intellectual capacity then feel free.

I think the difference is i simply mispelled a word vs i believe an invisable man in the sky controls all..one of those is slightly more dangerous then the other in my opinion.

Hell, my boss can barely spell it seems but i know he is incredibly smart and good at his job..and he believes in some Aliens that populated the world..needless to say i think that's a little silly but i feel there is a higher probability that there are other forms of life in the universe then there is an omnipotent man in the sky

Peopole have said this before, but we canuse logic in different areas. The smartest person around always will believe a thing or two that are completely bananas.

Naturaly, I do believe in the supernatural, and I would not say you have no credibility because of some typos ( I typo all the time) but the same way you can fail at basic grammar and be competent on all other areas, that can happen with a lot of things, including religious beliefs.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don't think that it's logical to entirely dismiss the intellectual capacities of people solely based on their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) that one might not agree with.

For example, I don't agree with Jews, Christians, or Hindus, among others, on a lot of theological concepts, but that doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge the fact that a person who holds any of those beliefs can be — and indeed many are — a respected intellectual. They also may not agree with me when it comes to religious beliefs, but that's a major factor in a lot of people's compartmentalizing their views of others according to what they agree and don't agree with — as to not treat others in a 'take it or leave it' manner.

In the voting example you mentioned in one of your posts in this thread, it seems to me that you're doubting religious people's abilities to make such a judgement because you view them as "unintellectual" or lacking intellectual credibility, which is a judgement that appears to be solely drawn from the religious beliefs they subscribe to. In other words, you're not compartmentalizing your perceptions of people; you're seemingly extrapolating one aspect of their thought process that you deem illogical/irrational to their other opinions that may or may not have anything to do with their religious beliefs.

But as far as I'm concerned, everyone can be 'irrational' in one way or another, and because many religious beliefs in particular are held to be 'beyond logic', you'll find that a lot of people withhold logical assessment when it comes to their religious beliefs, which would most likely not be how they'd normally operate otherwise. I may not agree with such modus operandi myself, but understanding it can help in seeing where some people come from.

I also don't think we can know all the reasons for some people's belief in certain ideas. What I regard as irrational may make sense to them due to a different experience(s), or simply because I've just been taught otherwise, and vice versa. I don't really think that anyone has some kind of monopoly on 'rational' thinking or on being logical. As such, I'm of the opinion that examining each of any given person's viewpoints separately is more realistic than treating all of their ideas as one single set.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Basing their choices on how we should run our country on a figment of their imagination and the will of the church is downright dangerous in my opinion.

No more potentially dangerous, or prosperous, as any other form of government. There are some that would use the Bible to turn America into a dangerous place for those who do not live to their standards, but there are also religious voters and politicians that would use the Bible to bring something Jesus would actually approve of, and then there are those that leave religious considerations out of their decisions to respect the religious freedoms of others (many of the Founding Fathers fell under this category).
But to dismiss someone just for being religious is rather narrow and short sighted. There are indeed many intellectual accomplishments and breakthroughs, many artistic masterpieces, numerous scientific discoveries, and many inspiring words that have came from the mind of someone who is religious. Even Charles Darwin considered himself to be Evangelical when he set out on the Beagle, and Einstein even had Pantheistic leanings. It was missionaries that Romanized the Japanese syllabaries, a religious zeal to understand God's creation that sparked many scientists, and of more importance the geometry and algebra, both made by religious societies. And of course the Mayans are credited with having made the most accurate calendar, which to them was an ongoing religious ritual.

 

[crocusj]

I just don't trust people in general.
We're bad at making decisions, especially important ones.
I should know.

We? Speak for yourself. I have made several bad decisions already today, I am good (not bad) at making these decisions.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hello Everybody
Just to get a few things out of the way, Yes i am new here and yes i am an athiest. I started this thread not to cause a riot or anything like that but to simply discuss the topic. Lately as i have grown older i have come to realize that i no longer trust religious people.
I realize that many people i deal with on a day to day basis are religious in some form or another and of varying degrees and for the most part it is never brought up in a topic of conversation. Their beliefs are their own and as long as they don't push them on me i never know the difference..generally these are good people and i have no issues with them at all, nor they me.
The problem comes when i find out that they are religious, i instantly lose respect for them on an intellectual level and i no longer trust them to make sound decisions. The reason for this is the cognitive dissadence they show in their religious views and their ability to ignore what in my opinion is the obvious fact that there is no god, never was and that religion itself is just a tool used to control the masses.
I find myself looking at the country as a whole and realize that the same people who believe there is an invisable, all powerful , omnipotent being in the sky that created everything, controls everything and can see or do everything with no proof of that person get a vote in how this country is ran and that vote counts just as much as mine does.
Basing their choices on how we should run our country on a figment of their imagination and the will of the church is downright dangerous in my opinion.
Anyway , if anybody finds this way of thinking worth a conversation then have at it.

Isn't there a difference between trusting so-called religious people and what the Bible really teaches ?
Didn't Jesus say MANY would come 'in his name' [so-called religious people] but they would prove false or be bad like rotten fruit. -Matthew chapter 7

So, since the majority would prove false is actual proof the Bible is not wrong but the false religious practices are wrong. Wrong just as they were wrong in Jesus' day when he condemned the religious leaders in Matthew chapter 23.

Also, No where in first-century Christianity do we find Jesus, nor his followers, being involved with the affairs of the world. They did not even become involved with the issues between the Jews and the Romans, but always remained politically neutral.
-John 6 v 15; James 1 v 27 B

 

[Quintessence]

Wow a bigot huh? And yeah, why not say what i think.

Exactly! Say what you think! I know the word "bigot" is a loaded one in our language, but I truly meant no offense by it. *laughs* We all have our things we're intolerant of. It's good and wise to be aware of what those things are.

I guess it is the libertarian in me that see's it this way. If it does not affect me in any way or infringe upon my rights then to each their own. My problem comes when somebody else's religious beliefs do affect our laws and the way our government handles things..like stem cell research for example.

I can understand that and sympathize. I hold a similar, though slightly different view. I would not point a finger at religious beliefs, specifically. I would point a finger at religious beliefs, or zealous devotion to any particular idea, regardless of its content. Such zealotry can often be blinding, leading to extremes that create some rather unsavory (and sometimes unintended) consequences in other areas. The zealot's trumpet of "growth, growth, growth!" in my culture is one of the most rampant offenders. Frankly I like it that certain religious beliefs serve to slow down the torrent. There is such a thing as too much "progress" too quickly - the kind of "progress" that blinds itself to the bad consequences (like inducing a sixth mass extinction and potentially disastrous global climate change). Neither here nor there.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How i came to know that there is no god, or yaweh or heavenly father, Zeus , Odin, Shiva or any other fictional being is just through the sheer lack of evidence to support the claim. After all that is why people have to "Have Faith" because if they had evidence they would not need faith.

many occasions that i'm going to hell for my beliefs..

Isn't there a difference between faith and credulity [blind faith] ?
Jesus based his faith by logical reasoning on Scripture.
Jesus being well educated in the Hebrew Scriptures often prefaced his statements with the words, "it is written". Already written in the Hebrew Scriptures to teach his point.
Jesus had trust and confidence in the Scriptures on which to base his faith and conclude that Scripture is religious truth. [John 17 v 17]

Please don't feel badly if told you are going to hell.
Didn't Jesus go to hell ?________ [Acts 2 vs 27,31,32; Psalm 16 v 10]
If hell was good enough for Jesus........
That brings us to want to know what is the Bible's hell [sheol] ?
There is a big difference between the biblical hell, and the non-biblical religious hell myth that clergy often teach as Scripture.

Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state according to John 11 vs 11-14
Jesus being well educated in the Hebrew Scriptures would have known such verses as
what King Solomon, known for having God-given wisdom] wrote the dead know nothing.
- Ecclesiastes 9 vs 5,10
The Psalmist also wrote that the dead sleep such as Psalms: 6v5;13v3;115v17;146v4
The prophet Daniel looked forward to be awakened from death's sleep. Dan. 12 vs 2,13

So, the biblical hell [sheol] that Jesus was in until God resurrected Jesus out of hell is just the stone-cold common grave of mankind where the dead sleep in death's deep sleep until resurrected to either heaven [Rev 20 v 6], or resurrected back to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus coming 1000-year reign over earth.
-John 3 v 13; Acts 24 v 15.

 

[Starsurfer93]

Hello Everybody

Just to get a few things out of the way, Yes i am new here and yes i am an athiest. I started this thread not to cause a riot or anything like that but to simply discuss the topic. Lately as i have grown older i have come to realize that i no longer trust religious people.

I realize that many people i deal with on a day to day basis are religious in some form or another and of varying degrees and for the most part it is never brought up in a topic of conversation. Their beliefs are their own and as long as they don't push them on me i never know the difference..generally these are good people and i have no issues with them at all, nor they me.

The problem comes when i find out that they are religious, i instantly lose respect for them on an intellectual level and i no longer trust them to make sound decisions. The reason for this is the cognitive dissadence they show in their religious views and their ability to ignore what in my opinion is the obvious fact that there is no god, never was and that religion itself is just a tool used to control the masses.

I find myself looking at the country as a whole and realize that the same people who believe there is an invisable, all powerful , omnipotent being in the sky that created everything, controls everything and can see or do everything with no proof of that person get a vote in how this country is ran and that vote counts just as much as mine does.

Basing their choices on how we should run our country on a figment of their imagination and the will of the church is downright dangerous in my opinion.

Anyway , if anybody finds this way of thinking worth a conversation then have at it.

Hello Vegas!

From what I can tell from your post, I feel your issues with religious folk stem less from the fact that they are religious and more so from what your image of a "Religious Person" is. i.e. The Religious Radicals that have been making significant headlines in this country as of late. And I cannot blame you for having prejudice towards such an image. The radicals we hear about in the news and papers are indeed imposing and most likely have no desire for intellectual discussion in regards to their beliefs. Their arrogance leads them to believe that their way of life is the only one worth living, and even worse, should be imposed upon others. There is nothing wrong with opposing the views of such people as they suppress the beliefs of both yourself and many others.

However, where I do take issue with your way of thinking is how willing you are to paint the broad community of religious people with the "Religious Radical Brush" and that you are willing to look down on such people for their views. This I feel, and I mean no offense when I say this, shows that you are rather arrogant. It's the same arrogance that inhabits the people you have put yourself at odds against. Try to remember that while these people may seem to be the majority of the religious population, they do not speak for all of us. There are plenty of religious people who are both tolerant and intellectual and, while they may not necessarily agree about things you or others like you may believe, do not attempt to impose their views on others. In fact, I feel a great deal of the religious prejudice in this country isn't even strictly religious. I feel it is more politics and intolerance towards anything "Not American" that fuel these people. It simply wears the guise of Religious Fervor. I'm certain there are many great minds who also have religious beliefs and practices. Don't count them short just because they believe in something that you don't. Intellectual thought doesn't disappear upon accepting a faith, and some of the best intellectual conversations take place between those who do not agree you

Also, I wanted to address that it seems you don't feel that the Radicals in this country should be given equal say in how the country is run. (At least that's what I felt was implied. Forgive me if I'm wrong.) This I feel is also a bad way to look at things. This country was founded on the principles of Freedom and Equality, and though it may not seem like it looking at certain parts of our past and the present day, we have to remember this is so. They should be allowed to an equal say in the government as you or I. Don't get me wrong. I don't like ANYTHING that comes out of their mouths. But no matter how much we hate listening to it, they should have the right to express their beliefs on how this nation is run.

Namaste, and welcome to the forums :namaste

 

[ChristineES]

Welcome to the RF.

I don't instantly lose respect for anyone: Not if they're religious, not if they are agnostic, and not if they are atheist. I just don't think that kind of thing is very fair to anyone at all. But that's just my opinion. (opinions are like "you know what" and they all stink hahaha just kidding.

Although I have faith, I can easily get angry at someone who also has faith. I can gain even more respect for someone who has no faith whatsoever. Their faith or lack of faith has absolutely nothing to do with how I feel about a person.

And just because you believe it to a "figment of my imagination" doesn't necessarily mean that that is a fact.

I live by the mantra of "fix yourself and then you can go fix others". Since no person in my view is perfect, fixing ourselves will be a lifetime job.

 

[s2a]

Hello Everybody

Just to get a few things out of the way, Yes i am new here and yes i am an athiest. I started this thread not to cause a riot or anything like that but to simply discuss the topic. Lately as i have grown older i have come to realize that i no longer trust religious people.

I realize that many people i deal with on a day to day basis are religious in some form or another and of varying degrees and for the most part it is never brought up in a topic of conversation. Their beliefs are their own and as long as they don't push them on me i never know the difference..generally these are good people and i have no issues with them at all, nor they me.

The problem comes when i find out that they are religious, i instantly lose respect for them on an intellectual level and i no longer trust them to make sound decisions. The reason for this is the cognitive dissadence they show in their religious views and their ability to ignore what in my opinion is the obvious fact that there is no god, never was and that religion itself is just a tool used to control the masses.

I find myself looking at the country as a whole and realize that the same people who believe there is an invisable, all powerful , omnipotent being in the sky that created everything, controls everything and can see or do everything with no proof of that person get a vote in how this country is ran and that vote counts just as much as mine does.

Basing their choices on how we should run our country on a figment of their imagination and the will of the church is downright dangerous in my opinion.

Anyway , if anybody finds this way of thinking worth a conversation then have at it.

Hi VegasRich, and welcome.

Allow me to ask you this, for you to ponder upon for a moment or so…

“Is it better for someone to do the ‘wrong’ thing for the ‘right’ reason, or for someone to do the ‘right’ thing for the ‘wrong’ reason”?

Note that the question above does not speak to any resident capacities of intellect or wisdom.

Would you endorse a Catholic nun’s actions to serve the poor, hungry and homeless, despite her underlying religious motivations and “calling to do so?

Would you endorse going to war to “liberate” a sovereign state to “bring freedom” to their people?

Which course is wiser, or more thoughtful?

Was it a intellectual, moral, ethical, or religiously pious choice that President Truman employed by deciding to employ nuclear weapons upon the civilian populace of Japan to decisively bring about that empire’s unconditional surrender?

One can argue that the decision spared perhaps a million lost lives in a surely inevitable ground invasion, all the while at the cost of the deaths hundreds of thousands of unarmed women and children civilians.

What would an atheist choose vs. a monotheist in that situation? Which call betwixt the two if differing as to be fatefully deemed more “intellectual”?

If I may, I suggest you direct your mistrust towards the actions of people, and not their lone motivations. I’ve had the good fortune to know and befriend very thoughtful and informed religious adherents, and stunning morons whom self-identified themselves unbelievers. Obviously, the converse has also proven true.

I won’t pretend to speak for, much less defend religious superstitions and motivations, regardless of any rooted or absent intellect therein…

…but I do know this.

Smart people can do and say both great and terrible things, just like any average idiot.

Trust what people do, not what they say. That’s what wisdom will steer you to in the long run…

 

[methylatedghosts]

Hello Everybody

Just to get a few things out of the way, Yes i am new here and yes i am an athiest. I started this thread not to cause a riot or anything like that but to simply discuss the topic. Lately as i have grown older i have come to realize that i no longer trust religious people.

I realize that many people i deal with on a day to day basis are religious in some form or another and of varying degrees and for the most part it is never brought up in a topic of conversation. Their beliefs are their own and as long as they don't push them on me i never know the difference..generally these are good people and i have no issues with them at all, nor they me.

The problem comes when i find out that they are religious, i instantly lose respect for them on an intellectual level and i no longer trust them to make sound decisions. The reason for this is the cognitive dissadence they show in their religious views and their ability to ignore what in my opinion is the obvious fact that there is no god, never was and that religion itself is just a tool used to control the masses.

Multitude of assumptions here.
1) That a person's beliefs, if not similar to yours, are illogical/unreasoned
2) That religions are illogical/unreasoned
3) That there is no god
4) That religions are only used to control people
5) That it is intellectually dishonest to hold beliefs that are dissimilar to at least 3 & 4

I would suggest not being to quick to jump to conclusions upon discovering someone is religious (or rather, not-atheist). There are more worldviews than there are people alive, and so, while some conclusions may be safely drawn, you do yourself a disservice assuming that anyone with a religion has not thought it through or is not able to do so in a logical, reasonable way.

 

[VegasRich]

When i say i lose respect it does not mean i now have zero respect for somebody with religious views. All it means is that my opinion of them changes. I no longer trust them as much as i used to because i feel at some point their religious views will interfere with their ability to use reason and logic.

I have stated multiple times that in general i like religious people, i get along with them, work with them..hang out with them..i just don't want them deciding how i live my life based on their religious beliefs.

It happens all the time in our society..our country has become so polarized and while religion isnt the sole deciding factor it is more certainly a factor for some people and how they make their decisions. They adhere strictly to the bible, the BOM, Islam..name it and do their best to vote their beliefs into law.

Take for example the push to add creationist views into the public school system. People fought long and hard to force schools to teach faith in the school system even though it is not based on science. I am not positive but i believe in most cases it was kept out of the school system. To me that type of thing is extremely dangerous and the type of thinking that holds this country back.

Anyway, time for bed..thanks for the discussion today.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Hello Vegas!

From what I can tell from your post, I feel your issues with religious folk stem less from the fact that they are religious and more so from what your image of a "Religious Person" is. i.e. The Religious Radicals that have been making significant headlines in this country as of late. And I cannot blame you for having prejudice towards such an image. The radicals we hear about in the news and papers are indeed imposing and most likely have no desire for intellectual discussion in regards to their beliefs. Their arrogance leads them to believe that their way of life is the only one worth living, and even worse, should be imposed upon others. There is nothing wrong with opposing the views of such people as they suppress the beliefs of both yourself and many others.

However, where I do take issue with your way of thinking is how willing you are to paint the broad community of religious people with the "Religious Radical Brush" and that you are willing to look down on such people for their views. This I feel, and I mean no offense when I say this, shows that you are rather arrogant. It's the same arrogance that inhabits the people you have put yourself at odds against. Try to remember that while these people may seem to be the majority of the religious population, they do not speak for all of us. There are plenty of religious people who are both tolerant and intellectual and, while they may not necessarily agree about things you or others like you may believe, do not attempt to impose their views on others. In fact, I feel a great deal of the religious prejudice in this country isn't even strictly religious. I feel it is more politics and intolerance towards anything "Not American" that fuel these people. It simply wears the guise of Religious Fervor. I'm certain there are many great minds who also have religious beliefs and practices. Don't count them short just because they believe in something that you don't. Intellectual thought doesn't disappear upon accepting a faith, and some of the best intellectual conversations take place between those who do not agree you

Also, I wanted to address that it seems you don't feel that the Radicals in this country should be given equal say in how the country is run. (At least that's what I felt was implied. Forgive me if I'm wrong.) This I feel is also a bad way to look at things. This country was founded on the principles of Freedom and Equality, and though it may not seem like it looking at certain parts of our past and the present day, we have to remember this is so. They should be allowed to an equal say in the government as you or I. Don't get me wrong. I don't like ANYTHING that comes out of their mouths. But no matter how much we hate listening to it, they should have the right to express their beliefs on how this nation is run.

Namaste, and welcome to the forums :namaste

Well put! It does come off a bit arrogant. Almost, but not quite "If you don't believe what I do, then you must be stupid"

 

[VegasRich]

Multitude of assumptions here.
1) That a person's beliefs, if not similar to yours, are illogical/unreasoned
2) That religions are illogical/unreasoned
3) That there is no god
4) That religions are only used to control people
5) That it is intellectually dishonest to hold beliefs that are dissimilar to at least 3 & 4

I would suggest not being to quick to jump to conclusions upon discovering someone is religious (or rather, not-atheist). There are more worldviews than there are people alive, and so, while some conclusions may be safely drawn, you do yourself a disservice assuming that anyone with a religion has not thought it through or is not able to do so in a logical, reasonable way.

1) Completely untrue , i disagree with plenty of people and plenty disagree with me on my views..i do not automatically dismiss them as being illogical or unreasoned. I am by no means perfect or believe my way is the only way.

2) Totally agree , i think believing in Any diety that there is no evidence of and taking things on Blind faith is at the very least foolish and illogical since most people will not apply that same method of thinking into any other part of their life..only in religion do people seem willing to disconnect reason and ignore evidence so they continue to have faith

3)Could not agree with you more..There is no god..that i am sure of.

4)Religions are not only used to control people, they are also used to make tremendous amounts of money , gain power and influence among other things . Religion also has many positive qualities but those are necessary in order to keep people from leaving in droves..

5) I feel it is only dishonest if you are willing to be willfully ignorant in the face of mountains of evidence, inconsistencies and obviously false claims.