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I don't usually post this sort of thing, but...

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I couldn't help it. This is a message from Senator Cory Booker (Dem), that I found spoke volumes to me about so many of the debates I've watched over the years here at Religious Forums. Although I'm not religious at all, I found that my outlook from the perspective of Humanism fit very well with what Senator Booker has to say.

How about you, from the perspective of your faith?
Cory Booker.jpg
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I couldn't help it. This is a message from Senator Cory Booker (Dem), that I found spoke volumes to me about so many of the debates I've watched over the years here at Religious Forums. Although I'm not religious at all, I found that my outlook from the perspective of Humanism fit very well with what Senator Booker has to say.

How about you, from the perspective of your faith?
View attachment 94584
I think this is a great statement.


One like unto it…

1721731070775.jpeg
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
How about you, from the perspective of your faith?

Let me put it this way:

If I see someone driving down the road with 4 flat tires, I feel compelled to say something. Perhaps I have my own problems, and perhaps I lack finesse, but, my intention is to help not harm.

That said, I do not deny, that I am interjecting where maybe I shouldn't. If that person wants to drive on 4 flat tires, and is insulted by a confident, passionate, religious person pointing out their faults? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say anything.

On the other hand. If I see someone driving on 4 flat tires, giving bad advice, which is potentially harmful, then I feel fully justified in pointing out the faults in that individual. Demonstrating to their audience they are unfit ( not kosher) for offering any advice to anyone. They're driving on 4 flat tires. That's stupid. They've crossed the line from being personally responsible for their own demise. They are now leading others into a ditch. Why? Because they're too proud to put air in their tires when a religious person is telling them to do it.
 
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McBell

Admiral Obvious
Let me put it this way:

If I see someone driving down the road with 4 flat tires, I feel compelled to say something. Perhaps I have my own problems, and perhaps I lack finesse, but, my intention is to help not harm.

That said, I do not deny, that I am interjecting where maybe I shouldn't. If that person wants to drive on 4 flat tires, and is insulted by a confident, passionate, religious person pointing out their faults? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say anything.

On the other hand. If I see someone driving on 4 flat tires, giving bad advice, which is potentially harmful, then I feel fully justified in pointing out the faults in that individual. Demonstrating to their audience they are unfit ( not kosher) for offering any advice to anyone. They're driving on 4 flat tires. That's stupid. They've crossed the line from being personally responsible for their own demise. They are now leading others into a ditch. Why? Because they're too proud to put air in their tires when a religious person is telling them to do it.
Seems to me missed the point of the OP.

To plug it into your scenarios, how much preaching about your beliefs do you do before just driving away?

I mean, if your beliefs include helping others and all you do is preach at them before driving away...

Now if you help change their tires on the side of the road without a single mention of your beliefs to help people, you are in the realm of the OP.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I couldn't help it. This is a message from Senator Cory Booker (Dem), that I found spoke volumes to me about so many of the debates I've watched over the years here at Religious Forums. Although I'm not religious at all, I found that my outlook from the perspective of Humanism fit very well with what Senator Booker has to say.

How about you, from the perspective of your faith?

I wish I could do my life like that, but I am limited in that I am in effect handicapped as I am mentally ill. So I can't be there that much for other humans.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Me personally? None.


It is about those who talk a big talk but their actions reveal that their talk is nothing but talk.

Don't tell people you are a good person, just be a good person...

Of course the opposite is also true, don't tell people you are bad person, just be a bad person.
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
I prefer not to speak about my religion in my day to days. I reserve that for places like this one. I'm unable to give a show of my actions in light of my religion here, so my actions are kind of moot. To be fair, my religion is kind of moot outside of places like these.

I fall short.

How about you?

By the way, I always liked that quote. Unfortunately, it's the most notable thing I've ever heard attributed to him. He's probably a fair guy, though.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
[/QUOTE]

Yes. I am the one under the car, jacking it up.
It is about those who talk a big talk but their actions reveal that their talk is nothing but talk.

I hear you, but I think you have missed the point of my reply. The individual, in the analogy, with 4 flat tires is driving, currently. I can very safely assume that they want to be driving smoothly. When I roll down my window, and let them know, perhaps lacking sensitivity, that they're driving on four flat tires, I am only talking about their very obvious intentions which are compromised by their negligence. That's all.

It's obvious, to me, that they want to drive smoothly, and it's obvious, to me, that they don;t want to shred their tires. So, I say something about their tires, and that's all.

Don't tell people you are a good person, just be a good person...

Context matters. Where is this conversation happening. Being a good person, for me, requires that I intervene IF, big if, I adopt that person's aspirations. Helping, I hope you agree, is about taking on the other individuals hopes, dreams, and desires. Perhaps it's a short term goal, like driving to the store. Perhaps it's a big ticket item like having a healthy, happy, and full life. Either way, if I'm helping someone, it is all about them. When I am helping, I am on their team 100%. That means their problems are my problems. Their goals are my goals. And, tbh, this is what people love about me. I invest myself in their success. Theirs. Not mine. I want them to succeed in what ever it is they choose.

Of course there are limits. I hope you understand.

if you help change their tires on the side of the road without a single mention of your beliefs to help people

Yes. I am under the car. Feet sticking out. Traffic is whizzing past. But. There's a catch. People can tell I'm a religious person. It's oozing from my pores. I can't help it. The hindu say, "namaste", yeah, weill, I can't turn that off. I can't. People can feel it, they know I'm a believer because I am so joyful about helping them. I am inspired to help. I care about them as if they are a god them-self. That doesn't happen without a religious belief.

So when I am helping? That person? If they are the least bit suspicious of religious people? Perhaps they've been burned in the past? They come from wrath-of-god Christianity? They're going to have visceral reaction to my presence while I am offering to help. But it has nothing to do with preaching. It has everything to do with my personality and how that shines everywhere I go. If I try to turn that off and repress it? It's not good. I do not react well to that. That's me. And I'm not alone.

So what you are describing, I think, is not the true intentions of the person. They are being a good person. But the individual who is judging harshly is judging based on other factors that have nothing to do with whether or not they are a good person. And this ignores the fact that "being a good person" is not the goal of the preacher to begin with. They are trying to save themself and others. And sometimes, in a rescue situation? When the water is choppy, and the victim is struggling? It's SOP ( standard operating procedure ). Punch them in the nose, then get them out of there.

Screenshot from 2024-07-23 10-43-20.png
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
“Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary, use words.”
~St. Francis of Assisi​

Great quote. :)

But ...

As Catholics, we have a number of phrases and sayings we use with one another on a consistent basis. One of the most common sayings is “Preach the Gospel at all times, and if necessary use words.” This quote is popularly attributed to St. Francis of Assisi. The saying is often used as a recommendation for how we should primarily or even exclusively evangelize. But, did St. Francis of Assisi really say this? And, did he really live this out as his primary means of evangelization?​
Well, the truth is, there is no evidence that St. Francis said this. It is clear that St. Francis’ life and actions did provide a great deal of evangelization on their own. In the context of a society where many clergy lived extravagant lifestyles, St. Francis’ vow to poverty was a stunning image of the Gospel. [source]​

Still ...
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Yes. I am the one under the car, jacking it up.

I hear you, but I think you have missed the point of my reply. The individual, in the analogy, with 4 flat tires is driving, currently. I can very safely assume that they want to be driving smoothly. When I roll down my window, and let them know, perhaps lacking sensitivity, that they're driving on four flat tires, I am only talking about their very obvious intentions which are compromised by their negligence. That's all.

It's obvious, to me, that they want to drive smoothly, and it's obvious, to me, that they don;t want to shred their tires. So, I say something about their tires, and that's all.



Context matters. Where is this conversation happening. Being a good person, for me, requires that I intervene IF, big if, I adopt that person's aspirations. Helping, I hope you agree, is about taking on the other individuals hopes, dreams, and desires. Perhaps it's a short term goal, like driving to the store. Perhaps it's a big ticket item like having a healthy, happy, and full life. Either way, if I'm helping someone, it is all about them. When I am helping, I am on their team 100%. That means their problems are my problems. Their goals are my goals. And, tbh, this is what people love about me. I invest myself in their success. Theirs. Not mine. I want them to succeed in what ever it is they choose.

Of course there are limits. I hope you understand.



Yes. I am under the car. Feet sticking out. Traffic is whizzing past. But. There's a catch. People can tell I'm a religious person. It's oozing from my pores. I can't help it. The hindu say, "namaste", yeah, weill, I can't turn that off. I can't. People can feel it, they know I'm a believer because I am so joyful about helping them. I am inspired to help. I care about them as if they are a god them-self. That doesn't happen without a religious belief.

So when I am helping? That person? If they are the least bit suspicious of religious people? Perhaps they've been burned in the past? They come from wrath-of-god Christianity? They're going to have visceral reaction to my presence while I am offering to help. But it has nothing to do with preaching. It has everything to do with my personality and how that shines everywhere I go. If I try to turn that off and repress it? It's not good. I do not react well to that. That's me. And I'm not alone.

So what you are describing, I think, is not the true intentions of the person. They are being a good person. But the individual who is judging harshly is judging based on other factors that have nothing to do with whether or not they are a good person. And this ignores the fact that "being a good person" is not the goal of the preacher to begin with. They are trying to save themself and others. And sometimes, in a rescue situation? When the water is choppy, and the victim is struggling? It's SOP ( standard operating procedure ). Punch them in the nose, then get them out of there.

View attachment 94594
I can often get a clue to someone's religion from clothing, items of jewelry, etc. Those are irrelevant to me (although I personally don't think any deity would care at all what we wear). Being kind or helpful to others while wearing the kippah or the kirpan is not proselytizing. Nor is saying "namaste," which while it might have religious origin, I recognize as a form of friendly greeting or acknowledgement.

I've also known people who are not only ready to help, ready to be kind, but are actually enthusiastic about it. I have no idea whether that's from a religious impulse or not, nor do I care -- I like it. Feeling good about doing good is the furthest thing from selfish I can imagine -- rather it signals the kind of real empathy that I wish more of us (including myself) had.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I can often get a clue to someone's religion from clothing, items of jewelry, etc.

~giggles~ Ohhhhhhkay.

Being kind or helpful to others while wearing the kippah or the kirpan is not proselytizing.

Nevermind. Your point of view is far too narrow. Superficial. I wear a cap. I probably look like more like a marxist.

Here. This is me. Right now. Webcam. I'm shaking my head right now and laughing quietly to myself.

Screenshot from 2024-07-23 11-59-34.png
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
~giggles~ Ohhhhhhkay.



Nevermind. Your point of view is far too narrow. Superficial. I wear a cap. I probably look like more like a marxist.

Here. This is me. Right now. Webcam. I'm shaking my head right now and laughing quietly to myself.

Not sure I deserve those remarks -- I was trying to be kind to you. But if that's how you feel...:shrug:
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The whole thing is a false dichotomy. Sounds all nice and preachy, but makes no sense.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I couldn't help it. This is a message from Senator Cory Booker (Dem), that I found spoke volumes to me about so many of the debates I've watched over the years here at Religious Forums. Although I'm not religious at all, I found that my outlook from the perspective of Humanism fit very well with what Senator Booker has to say.

How about you, from the perspective of your faith?
View attachment 94584
As many Christians have told me, being a Christian,
& going to Heaven isn't about good acts. It's about
belief only.
Some other Christians have told me that going to
Heaven is decided before birth, ie, pre-determined.

So I don't care if anyone is a Christian. Booker
reflects my view that you are what you do.
 
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