InChrist
Free4ever
I don't think the OT can be understood until one's mind is opened by Christ.
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I feel trapped between Christianity, Islam, and Atheism.
- Thread starter JeremK
- Start date
InChrist
Free4ever
I think there are valid reasons why God destroyed most of humanity or allowed stoning as a part of the legal code for the nation of Israel, but God did not condone slavery. Much of what occurs in the OT simply portrays the wrong behavior of humanity which God may allow, but does not condone.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I highly doubt that a Christian can have a better understanding of the OT than someone who is Jewish. The OT is, afterall, their religious manuscript that is based and derived from their culture, their practices, their laws, and their customs that are often completely and totally foreign and unknown to Christianity.
OT law does permit slavery, and God clearly never spoke out against it.
This is the Abrahamic Religions DIR. I really wish that we had the colors back. 
InChrist
Free4ever
You may doubt, but if God's plan included progressive revelation then it stands to reason that Christians who believe in the promised Messiah would have a fuller understanding and as it is recorded in the scriptures, the first Christians were all Jewish who did understand their manuscripts, laws, customs, and Jewish culture.
I still say God did not condone slavery and did speak against it...
http://compellingtruth.org/Bible-slavery.html
as brief :
God in Quran teach us , that He created the life and the death He said no one had eternal live . and creat hell and paradise .
for Daesh (ISIS), most of Muslims are against them and we fighting them .
I think Islam is kidnapped by Daesh , so we in process to free it
*** Staff Post ***
Thread moved to Religious Debates.
Thread moved to Religious Debates.
If you are afraid of hell, I would avoid atheism. However, there could be a third God that sends Christians and Muslims in hell, too. Or worse, it is entirely possible that God exists but sends only atheists to heaven, the rest to hell. Who knows?
If you cannot make up your mind, I would suggest to delegate the decision process to the machine that won the war.
Ciao
- viole
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Then don't despair; there are other gods out there. Well, that's my experience at least. May I make a suggestion? If you're looking for a loving, monolithic deity then I'd suggest reading up on Zoroastrianism. I've got the impression that Ahura Mazda is the older, more consistently moral version of the Abrahamic god.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Then why is the NT a poor reflection of Jewish tradition? When a Christian reads Job, they see the Satan the god of this world, the tempter of Christ, but this character does not exist in Judaism. I've seen/heard it said that such a concept, especially the "god of this world" part, is blasphemous in Judaism.
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. Leviticus 25:44-46
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money. Exodus 21:7-11
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. Exodus 21:20-21
And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 1 Timothy 6:1-2
InChrist
Free4ever
What about when Jewish/Christian read it and they understand the reality of Satan?
I guess you didn't read the article...
"No, the Bible does not condone slavery. The Bible acknowledges slavery's existence and regulates it in the Old Testament and plants the seeds of its demise in the New. Both testaments give instructions to slave holders regarding slavery (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Leviticus 25:39-46; Ephesians 6:5-9; Colossians 3:22-4:1)."
"It is clear that the slavery mentioned in the Bible was quite different from the slavery practiced during the last several hundred years. The slavery of the Bible was more akin to indentured servitude than modern-day slavery. The Bible's punishment for kidnapping someone and keeping or selling him was death—in other words, involuntary slavery was a capital offense (Exodus 21:16). The systematic kidnapping and enslaving of countless Africans in the fifteenth to nineteenth centuries was absolutely unbiblical. Paul specifically mentions "slave traders" and calls them lawless, rebellious, ungodly, unholy, and profane (1 Timothy 1:8-10)."
vaguelyhumanoid
Active Member
I have OCD and general anxiety so I've suffered severe anxiety and intrusive thoughts. I"m also queer and my brief attempt at converting to Christianity in my early adolescence was a psychological disaster. My preoccupation was Leviticus 20:13. I also had a huge complex around the devil as a small child, even tho I was raised not believing in hell or the devil. Based on what you've said here, I definitely wouldn't recommend mainstream interpretations of Christianity or Islam and I probably wouldn't recommend nonreligious atheism either.
btw, the unforgivable sin does not refer to apostasy in almost every interpretation. IIRC the only ones who claim it does are Mormons, who have some pretty unusual views on salvation and the afterlife. I think the most common interpretation is either attributing miracles to the devil or refusing to repent throughout life.
btw, the unforgivable sin does not refer to apostasy in almost every interpretation. IIRC the only ones who claim it does are Mormons, who have some pretty unusual views on salvation and the afterlife. I think the most common interpretation is either attributing miracles to the devil or refusing to repent throughout life.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Hi JeremK.
I think you don't know much about the Islamic stance on being bisexual or homosexual or heterosexual. Islam teaches about predestination where nothing happens without God intending for it to happen. There is a hadith (saying) from our prophet that Allah loves his creation more than a mother loves her child. The best of us in the sight of Allah are those that sin and ask for forgiveness.
Usually Islam's stance on homosexuality and bisexuality is misunderstood either because we have Christian views attributed to Islam or because Muslim's themselves don't know much about this topic and therefore make a mess of it. I am guilty of making such a mess myself but over time I learned a bit more and have come to understand the correct view regarding people with different sexual tendencies.
Islam values all life and doesn't teach to hate bisexuals or homosexuals, instead it is doing what is contrary to Islamic law that Islam teaches us to guard ourselves from. We were put on this earth to be trialed and we are at a point where the unlawful act is cheered upon while the lawful is frowned upon. Being bisexual is no different to being heterosexual. As a straight male myself, women are an attraction just like for any straight man. But the difference between being a Muslim and a non-Muslim is that non-Muslims generally act upon their desires when they wish to be with a woman, I on the other hand had to endure and be patient with my desires until marriage comes along. Or the same for a married man to commit sexual acts outside of marriage, someone may get the urge to do it but because Allah has forbidden it they refrain from it in order to attain Allah's pleasure and favour for not having done it.
Having said that, just as Islam doesn't condemn heterosexual males and females even though they are just as prone to commit a prohibited act as bisexuals or homosexuals, so too are bisexuals and homosexuals not condemned. What Islam does speak against is the unlawful acts that may be committed by anyone belonging to either group. Those that are straight may and will be trialed with the opposite gender before marriage and after marriage. One must simply choose not to act on their desires and remain patient. Those who are homosexual and bisexual are also trialed, the difference is that a bisexual may never have a sexual relationship with the same gender and a homosexual may not ever have a sexual relationship with the same gender. This is the greatest trial that such people are put through, they must get through it with patience and in turn Allah will make it easier for them. Allah is with the patient ones (as mentioned in the Qur'an).
As for deciding between Christianity and Islam, being a Muslim myself, I'd say Islam. lol
Maybe you need to do some more study and research about both of them and hopefully you will feel detachment from one and a stronger bond to the other.
Hope my post is helpful. To me it seemed like you have issues with either religion all due to being bisexual which is why I focused more on that aspect.
I can understand how you feel. I find comforting what the Bible says at 1 John 4:10; "The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins." I believe God loves us and wants us to be happy. The true God does not torment people in hellfire. That God dishonoring dogma is not taught in the Bible. The Bible assures us that the dead are unconscious and do not suffer. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)
The true God wants us to know him and gain salvation. (1 Timothy 2:3,4) I believe the true God is like a kind father who wants what is best for his children. IMO, the confusion and lies taught about God come from Satan, the one the Bible says is "misleading the entire inhabited earth". (Revelation 12:9) I believe Satan uses false religions to do this misleading.
The true God wants us to know him and gain salvation. (1 Timothy 2:3,4) I believe the true God is like a kind father who wants what is best for his children. IMO, the confusion and lies taught about God come from Satan, the one the Bible says is "misleading the entire inhabited earth". (Revelation 12:9) I believe Satan uses false religions to do this misleading.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Mormons do not believe the unforgivable sin refers to apostasy. I would love to hear about the Mormons' "unusual views on salvation and the afterlife." My guess is that they far more closely resemble the beliefs of first-century Christians than do the beliefs of most Christians today.
illykitty
RF's pet cat
Why do you believe Christianity or Islam is more likely than all of the other religions out there?
As someone who has suffered from some intrusive thoughts, the best "cure" is to question them. Defy your thoughts. Argue against them. There's no proof of hell, argue against that thought.
As someone who has suffered from some intrusive thoughts, the best "cure" is to question them. Defy your thoughts. Argue against them. There's no proof of hell, argue against that thought.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
As someone who has lived in hell, I can tell you that eventually you get bored with Satan's horror movie schtick. Once he no longer has power over you, it gives you a ton of freedom. My family was Southern Baptist, so I get the "emphasized daily" thing.
I thought the unforgivable sin, in context, was to call the Holy Spirit evil. It's not a rejection of it, nor disliking it ... I thought the context in Jesus' discussion was rather clear cut ...? Also, as motive is very important to God (well, so sayeth the bible, anyway), surely if He has any IQ worth noting, He gives some slack to mentally ill people like us.
Wow. I'm going through that now. You know, the holiday seasons are known for being horrible with depressed people. Start with a lamp on a timer. If your depression is seasonally affected, that oughta help. I wish mine hadn't died...
Gotta stop watching the news, brah. They'll have you wetting yourself over your shadow.
Yes, but you need to learn to separate the will of God from military propaganda. Most of the bible reads like it's from Fox News. Ditch that as silly propaganda and you can find out more about God
Turns out Jesus doesn't help much with severe mental illness. Even prophets were filled with anger, depression, and anxiety.
Jesus did. His followers, not so much.
Tomato, tomahto
Where are all the people that happened to?
I find the Mahabhrata to be a good read too. Dharma is something EVERYONE must follow, from gods to humans to demons, etc. It has much less of the arbitrary hypocrisy of the bible. As someone who also lives in a chronically unhappy family and faced with moral hypocrisy on a daily basis, I find it speaks to me more.
It's not a flawless text, but it's a definite step up.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Which means it failed to contain the only suitable law it could have had regarding slavery: thou shalt not own slaves. And it doesn't plant the seeds of it's demise in the NT, because it tells slaves that if their master is a Christian then they should work especially hard.
What reality? There is no "Jewish/Christian" approach. Are we looking at Ha-Satan, the angel of god who never rebelled, who never fails to obey, and who serves a very important role for god, as the character was originally made; or are we looking at Satan, the evil rebellious one who is the enemy of god and humans and who reigns over this place called Hell that does not exist in Judaism?
Slavery is owning people as property. It doesn't matter how you treat them, it doesn't matter what you call it, it doesn't matter if you play this "indentured servitude" word game, owning someone as property is always wrong, it is always evil, it is something no decent human respects, and it is something the Bible permits, even allowing masters to beat their slaves as severely as they want just as long as the slave lives because, hey, the slave is their property anyways.
My preferred method is to rationalize them. It doesn't fail me too often.
That can't be emphasized enough. It's no different than fearing the boogeyman, Krampus, trolls, or even Satanism as the media told us to fear back in the 80s and 90s.
And I see no reason to desire an eternity with a god who would let his holy book allow slavery, contain passage-after-passage of genocide, and having a prophet telling women to shut up and be submissive to their husbands. If there is a god, I am certain that is not it. Afterall, what could a god possibly be jealous over?