I got a question today that made me think...

[savagewind]

Not even Jesus knew everything (Matthew 24:36). But a person should know the basics of their worship; they should know what pleases their god, and what doesn’t.

In whatever circumstances...Humanly, imo impossible. It is not possible to know what God thinks. If you say that you do, you are a liar. In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Your friend of a friend is clearly talking nonsense.

Maybe a non-believer or just someone with very little knowledge of what spiritual lifestyle is

But its actually not wrong or bad of him to ask.

 

[Secret Chief]

Maybe a non-believer or just someone with very little knowledge of what spiritual lifestyle is

But its actually not wrong or bad of him to ask.

Not asking sure, but the assertion "if you dont know you are not a believer" is the nonsense.

 

[Nakosis]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

Tell them you are a believer, not a knower.
If you were a knower, then you would haven't to be a believer.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Tell them you are a believer, not a knower.
If you were a knower, then you would haven't to be a believer.

Yes if I knew all the answers i would not need the l8ng "path" of purification then it would have happen already

 

[sun rise]

The famous Kabbalist Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto wrote in one of his books that it would be impossible to learn every single detail, which is why time would be better spent learning general principles which can then be used to properly understand whichever smaller/specific details one comes upon during life.

You reminded me of this:

"What is hateful to you do not do to your neighbor.
That is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary. Go, learn (it)!"
Rabbi Hillel, Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a

 

[Psalm23]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

You don't have to know it all to be a believer. One can know very little and believe.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes if I knew all the answers i would not need the l8ng "path" of purification then it would have happen already

They used to call us aspirants, I suppose we aspired to gain knowledge. When I followed a Guru.
I suppose that would be a question for a Guru or Master. "So do you know everything?"

Though I never thought to ask that, I wonder what they would say.

 

[sayak83]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

Your friend is mistaken.

 

[mangalavara]

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

I assume that person is a stickler, precisionist, or perfectionist. If people did not know everything about the teachings of their religions, then, by his logic, virtually nobody would be a believer in anything. As a result, each religion might have only 10 followers or something. lol.

The famous Kabbalist Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto wrote in one of his books that it would be impossible to learn every single detail, which is why time would be better spent learning general principles which can then be used to properly understand whichever smaller/specific details one comes upon during life.

That's an excellent point, and very useful! Thanks for sharing!

The charity i am able to do is to give to those who ask of me to be there for them, in the country i live most people are not Muslims, but I give to anyone who are in need no matter who they are, and what they may believe in.

This is very commendable of you, my friend. You are already a spiritual role model.

As a Hindu who aspires to be a true devotee of God, Nārāyaṇa, I am trying to get rid of all hatred that I have for other beings.

Though I never thought to ask that, I wonder what they would say.

There is a gurū in the US whose followers literally say is 'the world's greatest authority on Sanātana Dharma.' It would be interesting to ask him if he knows everything.

 

[sayak83]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

Please ask your friend if he believes in the accuracy maths and if he knows the proofs of every mathematical proposition to justify that belief.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Please ask your friend if he believes in the accuracy maths and if he knows the proofs of every mathematical proposition to justify that belief.

I did something similar i asked if he could see air....he answered "only in winter when it is cold"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

You don't have to know an entire body of external knowledge, but I would say that anything you don't currently know is not -and can't be - part of your current beliefs.

 

[Sirona]

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

It would probably be easier to formulate an answer if you wrote,

- about your friend's level of knowledge in the field of Islam / Sufism
- whether your friend belongs to your religion, is neutral about it or rejects it

 

[Spirit of Light]

It would probably be easier to formulate an answer if you wrote,

- about your friend's level of knowledge in the field of Islam / Sufism
- whether your friend belongs to your religion, is neutral about it or rejects it

My friend has not much knowledge or understanding of religion or spiritual lifestyle

 

[Sirona]

My friend has not much knowledge or understanding of religion or spiritual lifestyle

So I can only guess, but some people (unconsciously?) might make demands for religious respect or religious authority with a claim of special spiritual insight that possibly is not accessible for the rest of us dummies and which cannot be objectively verified. It might have been your friend's way of trying to "test" any claims of spiritual expertise.

 

[syo]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

Believer doesn't mean gnostic.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Believer doesn't mean gnostic.

I know little about gnostic path, so my understanding arise from my understanding of sufism

 

[Sundance]

I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend today. And within this conversation my belief in sufi teaching come up.
And what surprised me was his bluntness when he said.

So you must know everything about all aspects of every question asked in sufism then?
So when I told him, No, actually i know very little, but have a understanding of what is important to grasp from the wisdom of other sufis and especially the sufi masters from earlier.

But he did not stop....he said, BUT you have to know, if you dont know you are not a believer...

So my question is : how can someone actually think that a believer in a spiritual or religious teaching "has to know it all" ?

It is a long "prosess"to even being able to understand the basics if one truly want to understand it well.

@Seeker of White Light, I’m gonna echo the sentiments of everyone else, and give you a bit of wisdom: the more a person thinks they know, the less there is for them to learn.

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Seeker of White Light, I’m gonna echo the sentiments of everyone else, and give you a bit of wisdom: the more a person thinks they know, the less there is for them to learn.

To say "I know" is to think we have understood to say, I understand is to acknowledge that, yes I understand what you say, but there might be more to realise in what you say